Irish naturalisation - do I need it???

[thegoatherder]

Hi all,

I'm a British citizen, living in Ireland permanently for 12 years (half my life). I recently married an American and went through the long battle of getting the Stamp 4 EU1Fam for my wife. We were successful in the end (see here: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=31056), however I could not help regretting having not applied for naturalisation earlier in my life (which would have made the whole process a lot easier).

Anyway... NOW we have her Stamp 4 EUFam, so no worries on that side any more ... I have been thinking about applying for naturalisation now - but I note that the cost is a staggering €950! So my question is... do I need naturalisation and what benefits will it give me? Note, I plan to do some travelling in about 3 months time for a year or more - it is even possible we will settle somewhere else for a few years before returning to Ireland. Does Irish naturalisation offer any benefits over UK Citizenship when travelling? How will my absence from the country over the next year or so affect a decision on naturalisation?

Thanks in advance for your comments!
-- A.

[sakura]

Does Irish naturalisation offer any benefits over UK Citizenship when travelling?

Travelling with an Irish passport might bring you less attention (i.e. Brits are disliked in quite a few countries, for obvious reasons; the Irish...not so much). I am sure some countries allow Irish passport holders visa-free (or longer visa-waiver) travel than they do for Britih passport holders, but only a handful.

[thegoatherder]

Travelling with an Irish passport might bring you less attention (i.e. Brits are disliked in quite a few countries, for obvious reasons; the Irish...not so much). I am sure some countries allow Irish passport holders visa-free (or longer visa-waiver) travel than they do for Britih passport holders, but only a handful.

OK, this makes a lot of sense... but for 950 euro I'm not sure it's money well spent... one more question - is it possible to have BOTH a British and Irish passport and to use whichever suits best at the time (i.e. it surely must be advantageous to be British when entering a commonwealth country?), or would I have to choose just one passport?

[Christophe]

Actually, I think a British passport allows entry to more countries visa-free than an Irish passport (it used to, anyway) and, in a few cases, it allows entry as a visitor for longer than an Irish passport does. However, in practical terms for most people the differences are trivial — and in any case such entry requirements are always subject to change.

Irish citizenship would enable you to vote in in referendums if that is important to you (British citizens can vote in Dáil elections, local elections and European elections), and would presumably give you rights to fulfil some high-level government jobs, should you wish to.

In practical terms, at this stage, I don't suppose that there would be much to be gained in becoming an Irish citizen. However, if it were I in your place I would seriously consider it, the cost notwithstanding, if I saw my future as being in any serious way connected with Ireland. I would like to be a citizen of the country that I live in, if possible, and to feel fully part of it. In addition, if your wife is thinking, in the fulness of time, of becoming an Irish citizen, then I think it would be good to have the same citizenship as her. If she is not thinking of doing this (e.g. because it would entail loss of her current citizenship) there is all the more reason for you to become Irish.

At present, British citizens can live and work in Ireland without restriction. However, it cannot be said that this will always be the case. I think it's unlikely to change in the foreseeable future, but — and I've said this before — if anyone had suggested in, say, 1955 that an Italian or a German citizen would find it easier to live and work in the UK than an Australian or a Canadian would, they would have been laughed at. Yet not 20 years later that was the case. Twenty years might seem a long way ahead, but it's not a long time in the overall course of lifetime, and it's a not a long time if you consider the citizenship status of any children that you might have in the future (if you are planning to have children).

You would retain your British citizenship if you naturalised as an Irish citizen.

Personally, I'd put the cost in the overall context of life as well — €950 is a lot, but in the course of a lifetime it seems a small price to pay.

But that's just my view, and plenty of people would think I am being both "romantic" in my view of citizenship and unduly worried about what the future might bring. I guess the reasoning will be different for each individual person, and legitimate choices can be made both ways.

[mktsoi]

Does Irish naturalisation offer any benefits over UK Citizenship when travelling?

Travelling with an Irish passport might bring you less attention (i.e. Brits are disliked in quite a few countries, for obvious reasons; the Irish...not so much). I am sure some countries allow Irish passport holders visa-free (or longer visa-waiver) travel than they do for Britih passport holders, but only a handful.

yes, people might think they attract less attention. when it comes down to diplomatic assistant. the irish gov will not do anything for you but british foreign office would do it.

one of my irish friend told me that one of his friend gone to india 20 years ago for bagpacking. he got robbed there and gone to the irish embassy. the irish embassy refused to help him financially for getting back to ireland. how nice!

[sakura]

Actually, I think a British passport allows entry to more countries visa-free than an Irish passport (it used to, anyway) and, in a few cases, it allows entry as a visitor for longer than an Irish passport does. However, in practical terms for most people the differences are trivial — and in any case such entry requirements are always subject to change.

Interestingly, I searched for the details about which nationalities have the most visa-free access worldwide before I posted, but I was hesitant in providing a link to the source as it was to a private immigration consultancy company, meaning it shouldn't be taken as gospel. Anyhow, here it is.

thegoatherer - you can indeed use any passport you wish when travelling, but I think you have to use your Irish passport when entering Ireland (if you do become Irish), and your British passport when entering the UK. I stress that I think that is the general rule, but someone else can confirm this for you.

Following from mktosi's post, the British embassies, high commissions and consulates are generally very good at providing consular service, so you'd have to check how well organised the Irish consular services are AND - and this is a very important point - if they even have embassies/consular services in some countries. That being said, however, it is probably a moot point - if you travel with both passports in hand, you can always just contact whichever embassy you want service from.

As the benefits might not be so great (unless you wish to vote or become a politician), these decisions really do come down to how 'Irish' you feel and if you see Ireland as your permanent home (i.e. your children - if/when you choose to have any - will be Irish automatically, I believe, so how would you feel having a different nationality to them, etc, etc). A final point is that it is sometimes better to do something now than wait until you can no longer do it - if the citizenship rules change (and if, for example, you and your wife decide to move abroad - maybe the USA), you might have missed your chance.

[Christophe]

Interestingly, I searched for the details about which nationalities have the most visa-free access worldwide before I posted, but I was hesitant in providing a link to the source as it was to a private immigration consultancy company, meaning it shouldn't be taken as gospel. Anyhow, here it is.

Ah, I beg your pardon. They've swapped places, the UK and Ireland (if I remembered rightly in the first place), though they're still very close to each other in absolute terms.

...I think you have to use your Irish passport when entering Ireland (if you do become Irish), and your British passport when entering the UK. I stress that I think that is the general rule, but someone else can confirm this for you.

There is no requirement for a British citizen to enter the UK using a British passport; the travel documentation must be sufficient for the purpose of the entry, which an Irish passport would be, of course.