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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
The person should know their own immigration history. Except if an EEA citizen before Brexit, one can't immigrate to the UK without paying attention to crossing the ts' and dotting the is'. All non-EEA migrants would have made at least one and possibly multiple applications to the Home Office.
Immigration is one area of life that I would strongly emphasise and encourage meticulous and immaculate record keeping. Even though I naturalised almost ten years ago, I still have a copy of all the documentation submitted for all applications made throughout my immigration history and I can still revisit the entire journey. I find it surprising and astonishing that others treate it so casually, almost as if it is a passing thought.
As you have done. Make Subject Access Request to the Home Office.
Naturalisation and ILR are different processes under different laws and rules. Do not confuse the two.
The Good Character requirement has been a part of naturalisation law since at least 1981 and possibly since 1948. And it is not a solely British practice either. The US and Canada, among other countries, have good character requirements. And Indian law explicitly blocks naturalisation for "illegal migrants". It does seem strange and bizarre that countries are not wild about giving citizenship to people who don't follow the law.
CR001 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:52 amRejecting applications for being an overstayer in the 10 years prior to applying for citizenship is not "new". It has been in place for a number of years now.
If you are worried, apply for a subject access request to understand what information UKVI hold on you.
Yes, done this yesterday. Lets see what they got on their records. I've been here since 2003 so a lot has been done since and I lost track records.
Also, people don't always post their full circumstances on the forum, so don't interrupt everything posted as fact or truth. There is frequently a lot of key information not disclosed.
True
Additionally, don't confuse the different routes to ILR with the requirements for citizenship. Simply "signing on" or being "known to HO" doesn't give an overatayer legal status in the UK. Those who get ILR, would have regularised their stay and met the residency requirement for ilr. Years ago, there was an ILR route based on 14 years residence which did not require valid visa for the 14 years.
No, I'm not confusing anything. I know they are totally different things. However, whats confusing is that they say being an overstayer is a crime in this country and therefore the person should be removed/deported/go back. So, if they know "we" are overstayers and where "we" are at the time, then why not remove us BEFORE they give us ILR status?! in which case, they will save us and themselves a lot of hassle and headaches a few years down the line!!
Dangling a carrot pops into my mind tbf.
This subject has many grey areas but the most confusing part is what I mentioned above.
So before judging things and saying people should be deported, bear in mind that there are many immigration routes/rules and circumstances that might not appear straightforward to the general public or general forum members.
I am including myself into this scenario. I am not judging anyone! Yes, agreed. there are many immigration routes/rules and circumstances and I consider my own application is one of those complex and confusing ones too. However, this complexity is not due to the nature of my application BUT to incompetency of a government body in this country.
I can mention many problems that the HO has caused me personally since I have arrived in this country.
But the most important issue that they caused was loosing my BRP card back in 2006/07 (can't remember the year exactly) and when they were asked and confronted, they blatantly lied and denied the fact that they have had my BRP card in their possession. Even though the Card was sent to them 1st class signed for via Royal Mail and someone physically signed for it when they received it.
Stephen Doughty MP, who sits on the home affairs select committee, raised the issue back in 2013, said: “The Home Office has a shocking history of losing documents from passports to identity papers which I flagged up as early as 2013.
You see, we could be keep repeating the same sentence until the cows come home.secret.simon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:29 pmNaturalisation and ILR are different processes under different laws and rules. Do not confuse the two.
Now, who wants to drop Priti Patel an email? She may be so thrilled with this idea that she may have the person given a BEM. It is encouraging for such ideas to be given on an immigration forum.prs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:36 pmSo why not either sort this mess out and stop with this long winded process once and for all and stop dishing out these ILR statuses or simply tweak the law (as they do when it suits them) so when someone has given an ILR, their BC application cannot be rejected for being an |overstayer"?!?
Not really. Both ILR and naturalisation are grants of the Home Office and it is perfectly possible for the Home Office to change the rules for ILR to include a good character requirement there as well. I am sure that they will thank you for that idea.
Thay may think that denying you citizenship is punishment enough. Or they may not have thought of the alternative that you suggested.
Not necessarily true. There have been cases on these forums where people have not applied for naturalisation after ILR, generally because doing so would mean that they lose their original citizenship, which they wish to retain (for whatever reason). There have been such cases on these forums from places as diverse as Germany, India and Malaysia.
But of course we must. The cows are sacred and we must wait for them to come home.
secret.simon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:40 pmNow, who wants to drop Priti Patel an email? She may be so thrilled with this idea that she may have the person given a BEM. It is encouraging for such ideas to be given on an immigration forum.prs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:36 pmSo why not either sort this mess out and stop with this long winded process once and for all and stop dishing out these ILR statuses or simply tweak the law (as they do when it suits them) so when someone has given an ILR, their BC application cannot be rejected for being an |overstayer"?!?
secret.simon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:46 pmNot really. Both ILR and naturalisation are grants of the Home Office and it is perfectly possible for the Home Office to change the rules for ILR to include a good character requirement there as well. I am sure that they will thank you for that idea.
Thay may think that denying you citizenship is punishment enough. Or they may not have thought of the alternative that you suggested.
Not necessarily true. There have been cases on these forums where people have not applied for naturalisation after ILR, generally because doing so would mean that they lose their original citizenship, which they wish to retain (for whatever reason). There have been such cases on these forums from places as diverse as Germany, India and Malaysia.
And why have you put "apply" in quotes?
But of course we must. The cows are sacred and we must wait for them to come home.
THO wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pmMaybe go live in another country then.
funny that foreigners in the UK tend to use the same sentence a lot more than the actual British born people.
Also, its a bit too late for me to consider "going and living" in another country considering that I have been here for 19 years and came here as a minor and now I have children born in this country and a family!
The UK is a whole lot better than many poor, awful, backwards, corrupt, misogynistic countries I could mentions, and many of the people on here criticise the UK for things that are far worse in the country they have left, to come live here.
I cannot comment about any of those countries that you've mentioned as I currently live here and have been living here without any absence for 19 years. This country is all I know... Judging from the flag in your avi, you are probably from one of those countries that you've mentioned so I would imagine that the UK is your best option.
As previously pointed out, if you'd kept full and complete records, you'd perhaps not be in different situation as you'd be able to prove whatever you need to now. Did you take a photo copies or photos of the document you sent off?
I do have 19 years worth.