Why the wait before clarification attempt?

[Nala2021]

I have been visiting this forum for a while now, first as a guest, and then when I applied as an active member. I am very curious to understand why applicants wait a year, two years, three years, before they send an email to the department requesting an update on their application, and even doing an FOI.

[mentalmind]

I think minimum waiting time is a year for applications to get processed and from what I understand, updates you get from ISD is vague, like "your application is in progress", "it is in late stage" etc. So emailing ISD doesn't really give you any updates. If I am not mistaken you have to wait some time before requesting FOI (if you apply too soon they will reject it) which then will show you the stage of your application, I think (again this is purely speculation) the longest waiting time is in Garda's vetting stage. Anyways, when you get this official info via FOI then you use it to tell ISD to speed up your application otherwise you will escalate this issue (to higher court or smth). Then magically the process gets faster. And you get your result.

So you have to wait 1 year minimum, then you can consider your options. And I guess 2 years was an edge case because of covid times. As I can remember, when everyone used to work from home, they couldn't take your documents to home due to GDPR issues so lots of documents and applications was waiting idle to be processed.

So as an 2021 applicants, we should still expect to wait 2 years before starting to worry or wonder what's going on. Last time I checked, on Irish Immigration's website it was mentioned that a straight forward application takes 23 months to be processed.

[meself2]

Well, I think they said before that they will usually take 12 months on a straightforward application (now it's 23), so not much of a point in bombarding them with emails hoping to get an update. Also, I would assume during this year they'd send letters without any nudge from you, as application should be progressing naturally.
In terms of FOI, JR, etc - I think someone on this forum said 2 years is a timeline that court would consider unreasonably long without making a decision, so you'll be very likely to win if you apply for a JR after it and not that likely before it. Not sure if FOI has any impact, but I think there is just not too much info besides your own to get back when you request a FOI during the initial stage.

[OneWorld2122]

I think, most of the time if you write them an email for status within first year of application submit-
they wont even reply to your email as its been stated in acknowledgment letter that straightforward application takes 12 month and to contact only if its necessary.

And, after one year you write to them it will be very generic reply which doesn't mean anything. so basically is a wait game and being lucky that your officer is a nice, active and quick person and hoping like minister said they want to return to timeline of 6-9 months processing time will soon be in action.

PS: I know, straightforward application time for new application is 23 months now.

[Nre123]

I think minimum waiting time is a year for applications to get processed and from what I understand, updates you get from ISD is vague, like "your application is in progress", "it is in late stage" etc. So emailing ISD doesn't really give you any updates. If I am not mistaken you have to wait some time before requesting FOI (if you apply too soon they will reject it) which then will show you the stage of your application, I think (again this is purely speculation) the longest waiting time is in Garda's vetting stage. Anyways, when you get this official info via FOI then you use it to tell ISD to speed up your application otherwise you will escalate this issue (to higher court or smth). Then magically the process gets faster. And you get your result.

So you have to wait 1 year minimum, then you can consider your options. And I guess 2 years was an edge case because of covid times. As I can remember, when everyone used to work from home, they couldn't take your documents to home due to GDPR issues so lots of documents and applications was waiting idle to be processed.

So as an 2021 applicants, we should still expect to wait 2 years before starting to worry or wonder what's going on. Last time I checked, on Irish Immigration's website it was mentioned that a straight forward application takes 23 months to be processed.

Well i did FOI for my daughter and got no relevant information. Just a checklist of docs i sent with remarks saying verified…it also had a list which said checked in Mar 2020 and nothing after that !! So its a useless process unless i misread it.

[Nala2021]

I think minimum waiting time is a year for applications to get processed and from what I understand, updates you get from ISD is vague, like "your application is in progress", "it is in late stage" etc. So emailing ISD doesn't really give you any updates. If I am not mistaken you have to wait some time before requesting FOI (if you apply too soon they will reject it) which then will show you the stage of your application, I think (again this is purely speculation) the longest waiting time is in Garda's vetting stage. Anyways, when you get this official info via FOI then you use it to tell ISD to speed up your application otherwise you will escalate this issue (to higher court or smth). Then magically the process gets faster. And you get your result.

So you have to wait 1 year minimum, then you can consider your options. And I guess 2 years was an edge case because of covid times. As I can remember, when everyone used to work from home, they couldn't take your documents to home due to GDPR issues so lots of documents and applications was waiting idle to be processed.

So as an 2021 applicants, we should still expect to wait 2 years before starting to worry or wonder what's going on. Last time I checked, on Irish Immigration's website it was mentioned that a straight forward application takes 23 months to be processed.

Well i did FOI for my daughter and got no relevant information. Just a checklist of docs i sent with remarks saying verified…it also had a list which said checked in Mar 2020 and nothing after that !! So its a useless process unless i misread it.

When did you apply for your daughter's citizenship?

[Nre123]

I think minimum waiting time is a year for applications to get processed and from what I understand, updates you get from ISD is vague, like "your application is in progress", "it is in late stage" etc. So emailing ISD doesn't really give you any updates. If I am not mistaken you have to wait some time before requesting FOI (if you apply too soon they will reject it) which then will show you the stage of your application, I think (again this is purely speculation) the longest waiting time is in Garda's vetting stage. Anyways, when you get this official info via FOI then you use it to tell ISD to speed up your application otherwise you will escalate this issue (to higher court or smth). Then magically the process gets faster. And you get your result.

So you have to wait 1 year minimum, then you can consider your options. And I guess 2 years was an edge case because of covid times. As I can remember, when everyone used to work from home, they couldn't take your documents to home due to GDPR issues so lots of documents and applications was waiting idle to be processed.

So as an 2021 applicants, we should still expect to wait 2 years before starting to worry or wonder what's going on. Last time I checked, on Irish Immigration's website it was mentioned that a straight forward application takes 23 months to be processed.

Well i did FOI for my daughter and got no relevant information. Just a checklist of docs i sent with remarks saying verified…it also had a list which said checked in Mar 2020 and nothing after that !! So its a useless process unless i misread it.

When did you apply for your daughter's citizenship?

Mar 2020 !

[mentalmind]

With the current timeline (in 2021 application thread), it takes around 1 year to get to eVetting step, and from eVetting topic, it seems after you approve the eVetting request, it takes 6 months to progress.

Most of this timeline (1 year till eVetting and 6 months after eVetting) is caused by waiting. From other peoples' FOI info, it looks like just to verify your information (residence timeline and other paper you provided) it takes 1 year to tick some boxes or write down "verified" . And eVetting is done in a month.

And at this stage it's expected to hear nothing for 1 year after your application and first thing you will hear will be about completing eVetting offline form (then fill online eVetting form) so I still believe (my personal opinion) it's useless to fill FOI form before 1 year and 1 month pass and there is still no news about eVetting form.

[Nala2021]

With the current timeline (in 2021 application thread), it takes around 1 year to get to eVetting step, and from eVetting topic, it seems after you approve the eVetting request, it takes 6 months to progress.

Most of this timeline (1 year till eVetting and 6 months after eVetting) is caused by waiting. From other peoples' FOI info, it looks like just to verify your information (residence timeline and other paper you provided) it takes 1 year to tick some boxes or write down "verified" . And eVetting is done in a month.

And at this stage it's expected to hear nothing for 1 year after your application and first thing you will hear will be about completing eVetting offline form (then fill online eVetting form) so I still believe (my personal opinion) it's useless to fill FOI form before 1 year and 1 month pass and there is still no news about eVetting form.

Hang on as it sounds really confusing.

So I'll write down the points, and you can confirm Yes/No to see if I got what you mean correctly!

1) It takes 1 year for department to verify information.

2) After that, you get the e-Vetting request.

3) After accepting, filling in, and approving the e-vetting request, the e-vetting process actually gets completed in 1 month.

4) After the e-vetting process has been completed, the whole citizenship process is concluded (meaning that you receive your certificate of naturalisation) after 6 months.

So looking at the 2021 timeline, the average processing time for citizenship applications (straightforward) is 1.6 years (18 months).

[mentalmind]

Sorry if I made it confusing :/ From what I understood, especially by looking at 2021 Thread.

1-) Yes
2-) yes
3-) Yes
4-) No. After 6 months of eVetting request you get "approved" mail and it takes a bit more time? (like 1-2 weeks after the approval letter I guess) to get certificate. Till you get the passport, you are not officially Irish citizen. So having cert by itself doesn't matter mıuch

For your last paragraph, yes that's what I think also. If you check 2020 Thread, some people applied later than others, got approval earlier than them (3 months difference). So there is no strict timeline about people getting approved in order they applied but more or less it's in order.

In 2021 thread, people applied in January 2021, got their eVetting physical forms in February 2022. So we need to give more or less 1 year 1 month before panicking.

[Nala2021]

Thank you, I appreciate that!

I get it, just wondering how this whole application process will go down to 6-9 months for the majority of applications.

[mentalmind]

Someday it will happen, hopefully. Just like the metro that will be built in Dublin in 2035?

[_pikachu]

Well, I think they said before that they will usually take 12 months on a straightforward application (now it's 23), so not much of a point in bombarding them with emails hoping to get an update. Also, I would assume during this year they'd send letters without any nudge from you, as application should be progressing naturally.

I agree with this. Also, the letter from the citizenship department states that they'd prefer no correspondence asking for an update or else it could delay the application processing time.

[_pikachu]

"3) After accepting, filling in, and approving the e-vetting request, the e-vetting process actually gets completed in 1 month."
My vetting was disclosed to the citizenship department in a week. You'll have the ability to track the progress on the vetting website.

"4) After the e-vetting process has been completed, the whole citizenship process is concluded (meaning that you receive your certificate of naturalisation) after 6 months."
It took 5 months from the vetting completion to get the Fidelity to the State form. That has to be signed and notarised. Then I had to submit more info on a INIS website/pay the fee. A paper that came with the Fidelity of State letter states it will take up to 6 weeks for the naturalisation certificate to arrive after paying the €950 fee.

[Nala2021]

"3) After accepting, filling in, and approving the e-vetting request, the e-vetting process actually gets completed in 1 month."
My vetting was disclosed to the citizenship department in a week. You'll have the ability to track the progress on the vetting website.

"4) After the e-vetting process has been completed, the whole citizenship process is concluded (meaning that you receive your certificate of naturalisation) after 6 months."
It took 5 months from the vetting completion to get the Fidelity to the State form. That has to be signed and notarised. Then I had to submit more info on a INIS website/pay the fee. A paper that came with the Fidelity of State letter states it will take up to 6 weeks for the naturalisation certificate to arrive after paying the €950 fee.

Can I ask, regarding the vetting, is it an email you get, or is it via post? As I saw through the 2021 timeline, that some mention they received a form via post, and then filled it and sent it back. I thought e-vetting was all digital?

[mentalmind]

You get form by post first, you fill it, send it back, then you get eVetting link to your email address. So you have to sign physically some privacy etc text to proceed with eVetting.

[Nala2021]

Well, I think they said before that they will usually take 12 months on a straightforward application (now it's 23), so not much of a point in bombarding them with emails hoping to get an update. Also, I would assume during this year they'd send letters without any nudge from you, as application should be progressing naturally.

I agree with this. Also, the letter from the citizenship department states that they'd prefer no correspondence asking for an update or else it could delay the application processing time.

Well frankly, to be honest, the way that they handle correspondence, or emails, should be completely irrelevant to their processing time of applications. Not all applicants send emails, plus, they already disabled their phone line since October 2021 I think. Cutting time from communication goes up to a point. People who send emails are not responsible for their tardiness. We still have a right to ask, especially since they do not make formal announcements concerning all the issues we talk about in here. It shouldn't be expected for an applicant to need to join a forum to be informed.

[meself2]

Well, I think they said before that they will usually take 12 months on a straightforward application (now it's 23), so not much of a point in bombarding them with emails hoping to get an update. Also, I would assume during this year they'd send letters without any nudge from you, as application should be progressing naturally.

I agree with this. Also, the letter from the citizenship department states that they'd prefer no correspondence asking for an update or else it could delay the application processing time.

Well frankly, to be honest, the way that they handle correspondence, or emails, should be completely irrelevant to their processing time of applications. Not all applicants send emails, plus, they already disabled their phone line since October 2021 I think. Cutting time from communication goes up to a point. People who send emails are not responsible for their tardiness. We still have a right to ask, especially since they do not make formal announcements concerning all the issues we talk about in here. It shouldn't be expected for an applicant to need to join a forum to be informed.

You have a point, but what will they say? Most likely, something similar as in postal letters, like what stage your application in. Would be awesome to have a more transparent system, of course, as it is with passports (have a status tracker for example), but doubt they would want to have it.

[pluto1992]

The actual processing time for an application is 12 weeks. How do I know, well most of the applicants who have gone to a solicitor and has sent a letter to the the department has got a decision within 12 weeks. I did it myself. And after I got my certificate I applied for FOI to understand what had happened. The solicitor sent a letter, its forwarded to CMU5. CMU5 responded to my solicitor. And CMU5 made the decision. So no case officer was assigned until I got the solicitor to send a letter. And within 12 weeks the decision was made. All the other emails I had been sending over the years didnt go past the servicedesk.
Someone the other day mentioned the department not meeting their SLAs and I was laughing out loud for a full minute. Civil Service is unionised. If they dont work no one can say anything to them. There is no incentive for them to work. They get paid the same either way. So why work?
As for what can be done, well not much. I have registered myself to vote already. And I know who not to vote for.

[mentalmind]

The actual processing time for an application is 12 weeks. How do I know, well most of the applicants who have gone to a solicitor and has sent a letter to the the department has got a decision within 12 weeks. I did it myself. And after I got my certificate I applied for FOI to understand what had happened. The solicitor sent a letter, its forwarded to CMU5. CMU5 responded to my solicitor. And CMU5 made the decision. So no case officer was assigned until I got the solicitor to send a letter. And within 12 weeks the decision was made. All the other emails I had been sending over the years didnt go past the servicedesk.
Someone the other day mentioned the department not meeting their SLAs and I was laughing out loud for a full minute. Civil Service is unionised. If they dont work no one can say anything to them. There is no incentive for them to work. They get paid the same either way. So why work?
As for what can be done, well not much. I have registered myself to vote already. And I know who not to vote for.

Which letter is it that your solicitor send to ISD? Is it the one about going to JR route? How long did you had to wait before sending them a letter via your solicitor?

[pluto1992]

The actual processing time for an application is 12 weeks. How do I know, well most of the applicants who have gone to a solicitor and has sent a letter to the the department has got a decision within 12 weeks. I did it myself. And after I got my certificate I applied for FOI to understand what had happened. The solicitor sent a letter, its forwarded to CMU5. CMU5 responded to my solicitor. And CMU5 made the decision. So no case officer was assigned until I got the solicitor to send a letter. And within 12 weeks the decision was made. All the other emails I had been sending over the years didnt go past the servicedesk.
Someone the other day mentioned the department not meeting their SLAs and I was laughing out loud for a full minute. Civil Service is unionised. If they dont work no one can say anything to them. There is no incentive for them to work. They get paid the same either way. So why work?
As for what can be done, well not much. I have registered myself to vote already. And I know who not to vote for.

Which letter is it that your solicitor send to ISD? Is it the one about going to JR route? How long did you had to wait before sending them a letter via your solicitor?

Yes the letter stating we'll go to High Court if no response is received within 1 month. I waited far too long almost 3.5 years before sending the letter. Should have done it earlier

[Nala2021]

The only thing that I cannot understand again and again when this goes through my head, is why on earth would they actually want a backlog? Logically it stops making sense after a while.

[Nala2021]

The actual processing time for an application is 12 weeks. How do I know, well most of the applicants who have gone to a solicitor and has sent a letter to the the department has got a decision within 12 weeks. I did it myself. And after I got my certificate I applied for FOI to understand what had happened. The solicitor sent a letter, its forwarded to CMU5. CMU5 responded to my solicitor. And CMU5 made the decision. So no case officer was assigned until I got the solicitor to send a letter. And within 12 weeks the decision was made. All the other emails I had been sending over the years didnt go past the servicedesk.
Someone the other day mentioned the department not meeting their SLAs and I was laughing out loud for a full minute. Civil Service is unionised. If they dont work no one can say anything to them. There is no incentive for them to work. They get paid the same either way. So why work?
As for what can be done, well not much. I have registered myself to vote already. And I know who not to vote for.

What did the FOI show for the 3.5 years?

[pluto1992]

The only thing that I cannot understand again and again when this goes through my head, is why on earth would they actually want a backlog? Logically it stops making sense after a while.

I'll ask you a counter question: why would they not want a backlog? A backlog only makes sure that their jobs are secure and it makes the politicians feel that more civil servants are needed to clear the backlogs.

[pluto1992]

What did the FOI show for the 3.5 years?

Within a month when my application was received, someone confirmed that I meet the residency requirement and there was a checklist on proof of residency. A garda vetting was requested which was received back within a month. Since then there was 1 Garda vetting each year and me banging my head asking for update via email and they giving me standard responses until I had sent a JR letter when the application was assigned to a team. I have got so many Garda vettings it looks like they were hoping for me to commit a crime for them to refuse my application. Who start crime as a hobby at 40?

Another thing I noticed, at the end when they say your application has been submitted to the minister for decision ... well its the same day process. So the CMU head person send a batch of files to the minister with a cover letter that these guys have met their naturalisaiton requirements so I recommend you grant them naturalisation. And the minister (or secretary to the minister) sign the cover letter very same day with the word 'Granted' and put a date under. I thought it was interesting to see that something that is made to look like a step is just a simple yes on the same day.