Transiting through UK with Irish Stamp 4 visa

[trolotron]

I'm non-EU and Irish Stamp 4 holder. Do I need a visa to transit through UK (staying less than 24 hours)?

I've found this post from 2017 explaining that is not required ireland/travelling-alone-with-stamp-4eu ... t#p1507518

Not sure if this is still the case and I don't understand the quoted pages from the document

Does anyone have the info about this?

[trolotron]

by the way, the same rules are listed here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... 20TWOV%203.

[meself2]

I went through UK in 2019 w/ Stamp 4 (not EUFam), 3rd country (nonEU) - UK - Ireland. About 2 hours between flights, Heathrow, 2 different terminals (T5 -> T2 I think).

Got off first flight, on a bus to T2, had to stay in a huge queue (circa 1,5h) on immigration control. Came up to an entry officer, said "hi, I'm going through UK in transit, here's my Stamp 4 and onward flight ticket". He asked once more where I'm going and how soon is the next flight, stamped my passport and let me go on my way, onto UK territory. Was supposed to go inside the terminal again, through security and all, and catch my flight there, but missed my flight due to the queue. Bought a Ryanair ticket from Luton and left through it - guy at Ryanair counter glanced at my passport and stamped my ticket, no issues there.

Anyway, moral of the story - yes, you're fine with transit. Fire away if you have questions.

[mentalmind]

If you are transiting thru UK by air you are allowed to stay in UK for 24 hours for transit purposes. You can travel between airports inside UK or stay in same airport and go to your final destination.

The problem is, who you deal with. Some Ryanair stuff doesn’t care at all, some is super rude as in threatening you to not let you in plane even it is legal. And then UK part is another pain, not much of them know about this rule so UK border police make you wait at passport control, don’t believe you, call or bring their manager in to ask you thousand of questions like “what do you do in Ireland? How long you live there? Why do you go thru UK?” And even they check if your IRP card is legit or not.

So yes you can do that with the conditions outlined on that page but either keep the link handy or take print out to show it to whoever being super sensitive about this. I transferred thru UK like that for 2 times and each time had to deal with UK police but eventually it worked out.

[meself2]

I assume you have an IRP, not a GNIB, so you fulfil TWOW 3(h), which is

(h) hold a valid common format residence permit issued by an EEA state (pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No. 1030/2002) or Switzerland;

If you have any issue at the border (and adhere to all other conditions outline there), appeal to it.

[littlerr]

Ireland and the UK share a common travel area. That means, you will get into UK's territory even when you are just in transit. Therefore you need a visa.

The post you referred to is for Stamp 4EUFAM holders, not Stamp 4 holders. In addition, Stamp 4EUFAM holders need a visa now as well.

However, you might be able to get an exemption based on TWOV. TWOV 3 (h), (i) and (j) may apply to you.

I have used TWOV twice before. I got into the UK without any issue, but I have to say it wasn't the best immigration experience. I would suggest that you apply for a visa if you can.

[littlerr]

Let me just add to my last comment as I'm no longer able to edit it.

I assume you have an IRP, not a GNIB, so you fulfil TWOW 3(h), which is

(h) hold a valid common format residence permit issued by an EEA state (pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No. 1030/2002) or Switzerland;

If you have any issue at the border (and adhere to all other conditions outline there), appeal to it.

This is not entirely correct. Well the UK government is to blame, as their websites are providing conflicting information, but Irish residents cannot come back to Ireland via the UK without a visa. Airlines will deny boarding if they want.

The TWOV's above are typically (1) for eligible temporary visitors (e.g. tourists) to travel between the UK and Ireland, (2) for non-EU residents to travel from Ireland to somewhere else. They are not for non-EU residents like you to travel from somewhere else to Ireland.

The UK government has a 'check if you require a visa' service which is very helpful. It's also used by airlines to determine whether a person can get onto a plane.

For example, if I use Chinese nationality and try to get to Ireland:
https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/chin ... of_ireland

It says: 'You must also have an Irish biometric visa (marked ‘BC’ or ‘BC BIVS’ in the ‘Remarks’ section) and an onward flight ticket to the Republic of Ireland.'

If I try to travel to somewhere else:
https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/chin ... e_else/yes

It then says TWOV applies.

[meself2]

I see where you're coming from, littlerr, and this is pretty baffling for me - UK certainly has way more international flights both in regards to frequency and destination compared to Ireland, so why not earn some money on it for mutual convenience and get Irish residents pass? If they have gone through all this trouble to get an Irish residency, it's highly unlikely they'll attempt to jeopardize it all for illegal stay in the UK. It's also surprising they specifically want more expensive Standard Visitor (compared to Visitor in Transit) visa, but that's probably because there is less border control between UK and ROI, so they try to be on a safe side.
If you mean airlines will deny boarding during first leg (to UK) - they could and there is not much you can show them to prove otherwise, as it states nowhere in plaintext you can transit like this.
Shouldn't be an issue through second leg (UK - Ireland) as you certainly have all valid documents for it.

I would say (and hope) visa free transit should still be possible - in my case I just had an Irish visa without necessary remarks (and IRP, of course), they waved me through after, like, less than 5 questions with no issues.

[meself2]

Just missed the time for edits and would say that based in what's said here would still be better to be on the safe side and apply for a visa, if possible.

[mentalmind]

Let me just add to my last comment as I'm no longer able to edit it.

I assume you have an IRP, not a GNIB, so you fulfil TWOW 3(h), which is

(h) hold a valid common format residence permit issued by an EEA state (pursuant to Council Regulation (EC) No. 1030/2002) or Switzerland;

If you have any issue at the border (and adhere to all other conditions outline there), appeal to it.

This is not entirely correct. Well the UK government is to blame, as their websites are providing conflicting information, but Irish residents cannot come back to Ireland via the UK without a visa. Airlines will deny boarding if they want.

The TWOV's above are typically (1) for eligible temporary visitors (e.g. tourists) to travel between the UK and Ireland, (2) for non-EU residents to travel from Ireland to somewhere else. They are not for non-EU residents like you to travel from somewhere else to Ireland.

The UK government has a 'check if you require a visa' service which is very helpful. It's also used by airlines to determine whether a person can get onto a plane.

For example, if I use Chinese nationality and try to get to Ireland:
https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/chin ... of_ireland

It says: 'You must also have an Irish biometric visa (marked ‘BC’ or ‘BC BIVS’ in the ‘Remarks’ section) and an onward flight ticket to the Republic of Ireland.'

If I try to travel to somewhere else:
https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/chin ... e_else/yes

It then says TWOV applies.

I did travel : Ireland -> UK -> Home country 2 or 3 times and apart from talking to airline staff there was no hassle. Which is at it should be.

I also did: Home country -> UK -> Ireland and had to deal with UK border police twice. They weren’t aware of this info so after some phone talk/manager came over, I got 24 hour permission for UK, dated September 2019 and January 2020. Apart from waiting for 10 minutes with border police, had no issue. Also, airline staff in home country didn’t know about this treaty so they had to make some calls but eventually I was on the plane.

If (that’s a big if) things didn’t changed, if you are travelling to Ireland and has IRP card you can pass thru UK.

On the website you can check “if I need transit visa” and there are list of exemptions, like having US visa or Canada visa etc. I never had to use that but eventually I was allowed to pass thru UK.

But again, UK border police still treats you like you are doing something illegal. So I would get a visa for 2-4 years and don’t have to deal with the police at all.

[mentalmind]

Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... isa-scheme

All of TWOV 2 should be applicable for your case then TWOW 3 (h) applies as IRP qualifies as EEA residence permit

[littlerr]

I did travel : Ireland -> UK -> Home country 2 or 3 times and apart from talking to airline staff there was no hassle. Which is at it should be.

I also did: Home country -> UK -> Ireland and had to deal with UK border police twice. They weren’t aware of this info so after some phone talk/manager came over, I got 24 hour permission for UK, dated September 2019 and January 2020. Apart from waiting for 10 minutes with border police, had no issue. Also, airline staff in home country didn’t know about this treaty so they had to make some calls but eventually I was on the plane.

If (that’s a big if) things didn’t changed, if you are travelling to Ireland and has IRP card you can pass thru UK.

On the website you can check “if I need transit visa” and there are list of exemptions, like having US visa or Canada visa etc. I never had to use that but eventually I was allowed to pass thru UK.

But again, UK border police still treats you like you are doing something illegal. So I would get a visa for 2-4 years and don’t have to deal with the police at all.

As I mentioned, I have done it twice myself. It doesn't mean it's right. I did it when I was in college. I certainly wouldn't do it again now that I have studied the legislations.

The UK border force and the airlines both have the rights to deny us from boarding or from entering the UK. They didn't, probably because they didn't want to cause any disruption both to them and to us, and that they knew we were genuine travellers, and probably because they were not in a bad mood. However, they have every ability to do that if they wish, and I wouldn't want to risk this, especially now after Brexit with all the tension and hostility around immigrants.

To make it very clear: You *can* travel from Ireland via UK to a 3rd country else under TWOV, but you *cannot* travel from a 3rd country via UK to Ireland.

The core concept of Transit Without Visa (TWOV) is that it is a *transit*. When you travel to Ireland from the UK, it is not considered as a 'transit', due to arrangements in the Common Travel Area. Travels within CTA are considered as domestic travels. As such, you are considered as an immigrant who now seeks to enter the CTA. Therefore, the website I mentioned above (https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/chin ... of_ireland) has specifically mentioned that it requires such people to hold a visa with the 'BIVS' remark, which is the only visa jointly recognised by the UK and Ireland.

I had requested to get that website updated to make it explicitly clear for people entering Ireland on multiple occasions, but they have always fell on deaf ears unfortunately.

[andy0222]

It's best to use this operational document from the UK Home Office instead of the website (which is confusing). This is what they give out to airlines and border agents as the reference document.

The chart clearly shows that transit to Ireland by entering CTA using an Irish IRP is allowed:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t_2021.pdf

The confusion arises with the BIVS Visa. BIVS Visa is a C tourist visa, which is a separate scheme. BIVS does not apply for residence permit/D visa, thus it's not applicable for stamp 4 holder.

The document clearly states:

"Landside Transit:
Landside transit passengers are those who need or wish to pass through the UK border and
enter the UK (e.g. to change airport, to collect baggage or arrive at airports where no airside
transfer is possible)"

"... need a visa to
transit LANDSIDE unless they hold one of the following:..."

"a valid common format residence permit issued by an EEA state or Switzerland; or
(vi) a valid common format category D visa for entry to an EEA state or Switzerland; or"

I have done this every few months and have no problem transiting through the UK.