Leaving Ireland after getting the Irish Passport

[yomariano05]

Hi,

Can they revoke the Irish Passport (by naturalization) if you leave the country for 5, 10 or more years and you live somewhere else in the world?

Thanks

[meself2]

Yes.
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to- ... tizenship/

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 as amended, the Minister for Justice has the power to revoke a certificate of naturalisation where an individual has been ordinarily resident outside of the State for seven years after naturalisation, unless;

They have registered annually in the prescribed manner their name and a declaration of an intention to retain Irish citizenship with an Irish diplomatic mission or consular office or with the Minister.

[sairsint]

I’d actually be interested to know how often they’ve actually done this for benign reasons such as simply living outside of the state for 7+ years.

Meaning, in a situation where there wasn’t some initiating factor such as a major criminal offence in another country where the Irish government would want to remove your naturalised citizenship. I’d say it’s extremely rare as they wouldn’t really know you don’t actually live here otherwise (without a reason to check).

[meself2]

I’d actually be interested to know how often they’ve actually done this for benign reasons such as simply living outside of the state for 7+ years.

If I recall it correctly, someone queried it and it was a very small number, if any.

[Vadrar]

The relevant parts of the Act were suspended a few years ago and I don't believe they've been re-instated (https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-rule ... Commission) Happy to be corrected if they have indeed been re-instated. Doesn't mean it won't be re-instated at some point though, of course.

Worth noting even when they were in place, they didn't apply to those who've gained citizenship by descent or association.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to find a case where it was used when it was in place. However, I have heard about some cases where those seeking to have their children placed on the FBR, and as part of that process effectively declared they'd been overseas without registering it for the 7 years. A few approached up for help, but it is not our area at all ('our' means voluntary migrant support centre, we aren't lawyers). Those FB registrations appeared to have stalled as their non-registered absences of their parents were queried. I don't know the outcome - it's not the kind of issue our centre deals with and they were all referred to work through paid legal counsel.

Even though parts of the Act are suspended, the standard advice we are told to give is that annual registration is recommended if you move countries and have obtained your citizenship by residency/spouse. Those who've done it reported back to us that it wasn't onerous.

[sairsint]

The relevant parts of the Act were suspended a few years ago and I don't believe they've been re-instated (https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-rule ... Commission) Happy to be corrected if they have indeed been re-instated. Doesn't mean it won't be re-instated at some point though, of course.

Worth noting even when they were in place, they didn't apply to those who've gained citizenship by descent or association.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to find a case where it was used when it was in place. However, I have heard about some cases where those seeking to have their children placed on the FBR, and as part of that process effectively declared they'd been overseas without registering it for the 7 years. A few approached up for help, but it is not our area at all ('our' means voluntary migrant support centre, we aren't lawyers). Those FB registrations appeared to have stalled as their non-registered absences of their parents were queried. I don't know the outcome - it's not the kind of issue our centre deals with and they were all referred to work through paid legal counsel.

Even though parts of the Act are suspended, the standard advice we are told to give is that annual registration is recommended if you move countries and have obtained your citizenship by residency/spouse. Those who've done it reported back to us that it wasn't onerous.

I can see how it would be an issue if you were in this situation (living elsewhere and children needing Irish citizenship, etc.) but I don't see how they would know otherwise, outside of some criminal investigation, etc.

The thing about the annual form registration is that once you do it, you need to continue to do it every year. I'm not at all implying you should not follow the policy, but that I think it's one of those situations that once you start it, you can't really stop.

[Vadrar]

The relevant parts of the Act were suspended a few years ago and I don't believe they've been re-instated (https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-rule ... Commission) Happy to be corrected if they have indeed been re-instated. Doesn't mean it won't be re-instated at some point though, of course.

Worth noting even when they were in place, they didn't apply to those who've gained citizenship by descent or association.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to find a case where it was used when it was in place. However, I have heard about some cases where those seeking to have their children placed on the FBR, and as part of that process effectively declared they'd been overseas without registering it for the 7 years. A few approached up for help, but it is not our area at all ('our' means voluntary migrant support centre, we aren't lawyers). Those FB registrations appeared to have stalled as their non-registered absences of their parents were queried. I don't know the outcome - it's not the kind of issue our centre deals with and they were all referred to work through paid legal counsel.

Even though parts of the Act are suspended, the standard advice we are told to give is that annual registration is recommended if you move countries and have obtained your citizenship by residency/spouse. Those who've done it reported back to us that it wasn't onerous.

I can see how it would be an issue if you were in this situation (living elsewhere and children needing Irish citizenship, etc.) but I don't see how they would know otherwise, outside of some criminal investigation, etc.

The thing about the annual form registration is that once you do it, you need to continue to do it every year. I'm not at all implying you should not follow the policy, but that I think it's one of those situations that once you start it, you can't really stop.

Yes, I agree - you'd likely need to keep annual registration up once started.

As for how they'd find out - I think there are surprising numbers of ways this would come to attention. I think more significant is that the general attitude (even when the Act was in place) was that officials/Minister/department didn't care when they came across the information and wouldn't seek to pursue it.

For ways it would come to attention - you only need to read the stories of Australian born citizens who've been stripped of their birth Australian citizenship because they took dual citizenship before 2002 to realise the unexpected and unintentional ways that information like this (residency) is signalled to government departments, and how it doesn't require criminal activity or submission by the individual concerned. In most of the Australian cases it was brought to light by totally legal data sharing from country to country that individuals weren't part of. (Obviously, I'm aware Australia is not Ireland/Ireland is a sovereign country/policy in one country does not determine policies in other countries etc etc. This is an example of information transfer, not a suggestion that Ireland uses Australia as a policy lead.)

And for changes in applications of citizenship law that take people by surprise and upend their life, the same Australian example.

Most people living overseas won't register, and in all probability, will be absolutely fine (esp as Act is suspended). But since the stripping of Australian citizenship, our center have updated the written support material we give to naturalisation applicants to recommend that people do register if living overseas. Citizenship is not immaterial to acquire, loss of it can be devastating. But everyone will quite rightly make up their own mind as to what works for them.

[meself2]

The relevant parts of the Act were suspended a few years ago and I don't believe they've been re-instated (https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-rule ... Commission) Happy to be corrected if they have indeed been re-instated. Doesn't mean it won't be re-instated at some point though, of course.

I doubt it was, but according to the link you gave, only sections (2) and (3) are legally suspended - and while there's no official procedure of revocation as of now, it's better to be safe than sorry. since 19(1)(c) still applies.

[Vadrar]

The relevant parts of the Act were suspended a few years ago and I don't believe they've been re-instated (https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-rule ... Commission) Happy to be corrected if they have indeed been re-instated. Doesn't mean it won't be re-instated at some point though, of course.

I doubt it was, but according to the link you gave, only sections (2) and (3) are legally suspended - and while there's no official procedure of revocation as of now, it's better to be safe than sorry. since 19(1)(c) still applies.

The consensus of the legal commentary around the suspension is that citizenship won't be revoked because of failure to register until the oversight of revocation decision making and appeal process is reformed and the relevant parts are re-instated. The judge presiding over the suspension clarified this exact issue in the recorded ruling when deciding which parts of the Act to suspend and which to leave in place.

However - as per my posts - I don't think even this protection this changes the wisdom of annual registration if living overseas. I'm in violent agreement with you about registration where it is relevant, even while the Act is gutted.

Having taken the effort and cost to get citizenship - putting it at inadvertent risk because you can't be bothered with a registration once a year - is ludicrous, IMO.

[meself2]

Indeed, as well as this kind of distinction between naturalised and non-naturalised citizens. Equal, but not completely equal.

Let's see what kind of a change government will come up with regarding these parts of an act.

[USD001a]

Indeed, as well as this kind of distinction between naturalised and non-naturalised citizens. Equal, but not completely equal.

Let's see what kind of a change government will come up with regarding these parts of an act.

I have wondered whether this distinction between naturalised and non-naturalised citizens infringes upon my rights as a European citizen, as I don't seem to have quite the same rights to live freely within the rest of the EU.

[fuzzbizz]

The handbook they give you at the ceremony even says you're allowed to live anywhere in the EU, though this annual "intent to retain Irish citizenship" is annoying.

[sairsint]

The handbook they give you at the ceremony even says you're allowed to live anywhere in the EU, though this annual "intent to retain Irish citizenship" is annoying.

Of course you can as you're an EU citizen. The problem here is that they have one standard for naturalised citizens and another for non-naturalised citizens which doesn't make any sense, regardless of birth rights. Irish citizens live all over the world, in fact I'd argue there's more of them living outside of Ireland than in it and I highly doubt many of those naturalised ones are all completing this form every year.

I imagine if you're exercising your rights to live elsewhere in the EU or UK (under the CTA) and regardless of whether you complete this annual form or not, they would have a pretty big challenge revoking your citizenship outside of something causing it to be challenged (E.g. you're involved in major illegal activity, etc.)

[meself2]

The consensus of the legal commentary around the suspension is that citizenship won't be revoked because of failure to register until the oversight of revocation decision making and appeal process is reformed and the relevant parts are re-instated.

And they are on it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/20 ... this-year/