Indian minor (stateless ?)

[shiney]

Hi All,

Firstly apologies if this is not the correct section as i am not entirely sure where should i be putting this query.

Background:
Got British passport in Nov 2021 via 10 year route.
Wife and kid still on Indian passport and having FLR visa. Second renewal due in March 2024 (i.e. for 5 yrs).

I was recently told that after renouncing my indian passport the minor passport also gets renanciated based on (Indian Citizenship Act, 1955). I was not aware of this clause and it seems that the govt is highlighting this clause during OCI application. Not sure if this was made evident during earlier OCI process.

I went through some other post highlighting this rule which dates back but there was no concrete answers for the same.

So my query is
1. Is my child who currently holds an indian passport stateless ?
2. Can i travel with him using indian passport ? Will there be any issues during the travel ?
3. If by any chance he is stateless which route should i take during renewal (should i apply for FLR or Stateless application for him)?

Is anyone in similar situation or faced this issue ?

Kind Regards,
Shiney

[Ticktack]

Hi All,

Firstly apologies if this is not the correct section as i am not entirely sure where should i be putting this query.

Background:
Got British passport in Nov 2021 via 10 year route.
Wife and kid still on Indian passport and having FLR visa. Second renewal due in March 2024 (i.e. for 5 yrs).

I was recently told that after renouncing my indian passport the minor passport also gets renanciated based on (Indian Citizenship Act, 1955). I was not aware of this clause and it seems that the govt is highlighting this clause during OCI application. Not sure if this was made evident during earlier OCI process.

I went through some other post highlighting this rule which dates back but there was no concrete answers for the same.

So my query is
1. Is my child who currently holds an indian passport stateless ?
2. Can i travel with him using indian passport ? Will there be any issues during the travel ?
3. If by any chance he is stateless which route should i take during renewal (should i apply for FLR or Stateless application for him)?

Is anyone in similar situation or faced this issue ?

Kind Regards,
Shiney

I wouldn't know much about Indian immigration laws, so pardon my ignorance.

I'm just going to go with common sense here. Husband - Indian, Wife - Indian, Child - Indian.

If you the husband renounce your Indian citizenship, surely your child must have derived his/her citizenship from both parents? Based on the mother (still Indian), the child still clings on to Indian citizenship!

So my answers are this;
1. Child is still very much Indian
2. If you meant child travelling on Indian passport, and you on British, I don't see a problem in any other part of the world apart from India. That's if they have an issue with it.
3. Child can never be stateless. Immigration pathway would always follow the mother's.

[secret.simon]

Not an expert on Indian citizenship law either, but I think there is confusion between Sections 8 and 9 of the Indian Citizenship Act 1955.

In your case, by acquiring British citizenship, your Indian citizenship was terminated automatically under Section 9 of the Act above. That should not impact your minor child.

All you are doing after that is surrendering your Indian passport, for a citizenship that had automatically ceased to exist by force of Indian law. You are not renouncing Indian citizenship under Section 8 of the Act above.

At least, this is my reading of the Indian law. I'm not a lawyer, let alone an Indian lawyer. I'm just a stranger online reading the text of the law.

I think you should consult the Indian diplomatic authorities wherever you're located and get their advice. Feel free to show them this reply and post back here about their advice.

As this is a question on Indian law, not UK immigration, I'll move it to the Other Countries forum.

[ankitt]

Hi
I have recently acquired British citizenship and have received my surrender certificate.

I wanted to apply for Renunciation certificate to acquire my OCI card.

My query is :-

I have a minor child who has Indian citizenship and my wife also has Indian citizenship (they are yet not eligible for British Citizenship).

Does my application for a renunciation certificate affect my child's status as an Indian citizen?

Please advise me on the further process

Regards

[thevar]

Hi All,

Firstly apologies if this is not the correct section as i am not entirely sure where should i be putting this query.

Background:
Got British passport in Nov 2021 via 10 year route.
Wife and kid still on Indian passport and having FLR visa. Second renewal due in March 2024 (i.e. for 5 yrs).

I was recently told that after renouncing my indian passport the minor passport also gets renanciated based on (Indian Citizenship Act, 1955). I was not aware of this clause and it seems that the govt is highlighting this clause during OCI application. Not sure if this was made evident during earlier OCI process.

I went through some other post highlighting this rule which dates back but there was no concrete answers for the same.

So my query is
1. Is my child who currently holds an indian passport stateless ?
2. Can i travel with him using indian passport ? Will there be any issues during the travel ?
3. If by any chance he is stateless which route should i take during renewal (should i apply for FLR or Stateless application for him)?

Is anyone in similar situation or faced this issue ?

Kind Regards,
Shiney

Hi Shiney - finally what did you do? Did you get any final resolution for your situation?

[thevar]

Hi
I have recently acquired British citizenship and have received my surrender certificate.

I wanted to apply for Renunciation certificate to acquire my OCI card.

My query is :-

I have a minor child who has Indian citizenship and my wife also has Indian citizenship (they are yet not eligible for British Citizenship).

Does my application for a renunciation certificate affect my child's status as an Indian citizen?

Please advise me on the further process

Regards

Hi Ankitt
I am in a similar situation. Did you get any guidance on what is the final verdict on what needs to be done in such cases?

[BashirB]

In theory, if both parents lose Indian Citizenship, all minor children automatically lose it.

If your wife is still an Indian citizen, then your children are safe to travel on Indian passport.

If both you and your wife are British now, I find it hard to believe that you did not apply for the children to be naturalised.

In any case, if its a short term timing thing, then you can wait it out. But if its a long period, perhaps don't surrender your passport or formally renounce Indian citizenship till your child gets his British citizenship.

The only issue with this approach is you will have to apply visa to visit India and cannot apply for OCI. So your cost increases. Also if you don't surrender for 3 years, then there is a penalty to pay as well.

[bashamy]

Hi
I have recently acquired British citizenship and have received my surrender certificate.

I wanted to apply for Renunciation certificate to acquire my OCI card.

My query is :-

I have a minor child who has Indian citizenship and my wife also has Indian citizenship (they are yet not eligible for British Citizenship).

Does my application for a renunciation certificate affect my child's status as an Indian citizen?

Please advise me on the further process

Regards

Please advise if you got any update on this. I am in similar situation. My children & wife have Indian citizenship and they are not still eligible for British Citizenship. Is Renunciation certificate introduced very recently for OCI?

[bashamy]

In theory, if both parents lose Indian Citizenship, all minor children automatically lose it.

If your wife is still an Indian citizen, then your children are safe to travel on Indian passport.

If both you and your wife are British now, I find it hard to believe that you did not apply for the children to be naturalised.

In any case, if its a short term timing thing, then you can wait it out. But if its a long period, perhaps don't surrender your passport or formally renounce Indian citizenship till your child gets his British citizenship.

The only issue with this approach is you will have to apply visa to visit India and cannot apply for OCI. So your cost increases. Also if you don't surrender for 3 years, then there is a penalty to pay as well.

Hi BashirB,
I am in similar situation. My children are eligible for ILR in 2026 (so citizenship in 2027). Do you suggest not to surrender & renounce? or Can I only surrender Indian passport and not apply for Renunciation until my children gets UK citizenship?

[BashirB]

Hi BashirB,
I am in similar situation. My children are eligible for ILR in 2026 (so citizenship in 2027). Do you suggest not to surrender & renounce? or Can I only surrender Indian passport and not apply for Renunciation until my children gets UK citizenship?

Can you provide more information.

It appears you are now a British citizen (formerly Indian citizen). You state that your children will be eligible for ILR in 2026 and are still Indian citizens.

1. Where were they born?
If in UK, then they were eligible for citizenship when you got your ILR
If they were born in India, there is no residency requirement for minors on dependent visa. They become eligible for ILR when the primary applicant becomes eligible.

2. Is their mother still Indian?
If yes, then no harm in surrendering yours as their claim to Indian citizenship by birth to Indian mother is still intact.
If no, then their claim to Indian citizenship will be forfeited when you surrender yours.

Take note that it is not mandatory to surrender and renounce (S&R) immediately. In theory, you have automatically lost your Indian citizenship when you took British citizenship. The S&R are a required formality to officiate that. There is £160 penalty for doing it more than 3 years after getting your foreign passport.

Also note that you need to S&R to get OCI, but it is not needed for a visa. You could apply for eVisa now and travel to India, with the children on Indian passport.

[thevar]

Hi BashirB,
I am in similar situation. My children are eligible for ILR in 2026 (so citizenship in 2027). Do you suggest not to surrender & renounce? or Can I only surrender Indian passport and not apply for Renunciation until my children gets UK citizenship?

Can you provide more information.

It appears you are now a British citizen (formerly Indian citizen). You state that your children will be eligible for ILR in 2026 and are still Indian citizens.

1. Where were they born?
If in UK, then they were eligible for citizenship when you got your ILR
If they were born in India, there is no residency requirement for minors on dependent visa. They become eligible for ILR when the primary applicant becomes eligible.

2. Is their mother still Indian?
If yes, then no harm in surrendering yours as their claim to Indian citizenship by birth to Indian mother is still intact.
If no, then their claim to Indian citizenship will be forfeited when you surrender yours.

Take note that it is not mandatory to surrender and renounce (S&R) immediately. In theory, you have automatically lost your Indian citizenship when you took British citizenship. The S&R are a required formality to officiate that. There is £160 penalty for doing it more than 3 years after getting your foreign passport.

Also note that you need to S&R to get OCI, but it is not needed for a visa. You could apply for eVisa now and travel to India, with the children on Indian passport.

Hi BashirB - Is the penalty after 3 months or 3 years? I heard/read somewhere that the passport needs to be surrendered within 3 months.

[BashirB]

Hi BashirB - Is the penalty after 3 months or 3 years? I heard/read somewhere that the passport needs to be surrendered within 3 months.

You have 3 months grace period after obtaining foreign citizenship to still use Indian passport , but only IF (and only IF) you have not yet obtained foreign passport. After 3 months grace period, even if you haven't obtained foreign passport, you cannot use Indian passport , otherwise there is a penalty. This is the 3 month rule.

In theory, you can decide not to surrender the passport at all, and keep on travelling to India on eVisa. You just won't be able to get OCI. However, if you decide to surrender passport after 3 years, even if you have not used it at all, there is a penalty to pay. This is the three year rule.

Note that the penalty increases for each instance the passport was used as well after obtaining foreign nationality.

[thevar]

Hi BashirB - Is the penalty after 3 months or 3 years? I heard/read somewhere that the passport needs to be surrendered within 3 months.

You have 3 months grace period after obtaining foreign citizenship to still use Indian passport , but only IF (and only IF) you have not yet obtained foreign passport. After 3 months grace period, even if you haven't obtained foreign passport, you cannot use Indian passport , otherwise there is a penalty. This is the 3 month rule.

In theory, you can decide not to surrender the passport at all, and keep on travelling to India on eVisa. You just won't be able to get OCI. However, if you decide to surrender passport after 3 years, even if you have not used it at all, there is a penalty to pay. This is the three year rule.

Note that the penalty increases for each instance the passport was used as well after obtaining foreign nationality.

BashirB - Superb explanation! Thanks for clarifying a lot that was unsolved/unanswered for a long time

[bashamy]

Hi BashirB,
I am in similar situation. My children are eligible for ILR in 2026 (so citizenship in 2027). Do you suggest not to surrender & renounce? or Can I only surrender Indian passport and not apply for Renunciation until my children gets UK citizenship?

Can you provide more information.

It appears you are now a British citizen (formerly Indian citizen). You state that your children will be eligible for ILR in 2026 and are still Indian citizens.

1. Where were they born?
If in UK, then they were eligible for citizenship when you got your ILR
If they were born in India, there is no residency requirement for minors on dependent visa. They become eligible for ILR when the primary applicant becomes eligible.

2. Is their mother still Indian?
If yes, then no harm in surrendering yours as their claim to Indian citizenship by birth to Indian mother is still intact.
If no, then their claim to Indian citizenship will be forfeited when you surrender yours.

Take note that it is not mandatory to surrender and renounce (S&R) immediately. In theory, you have automatically lost your Indian citizenship when you took British citizenship. The S&R are a required formality to officiate that. There is £160 penalty for doing it more than 3 years after getting your foreign passport.

Also note that you need to S&R to get OCI, but it is not needed for a visa. You could apply for eVisa now and travel to India, with the children on Indian passport.

Thanks BashirB for the explanation.

I got ILR in 10yrs route in 2020. My wife is still an Indian. My children were born in India so they are eligible for ILR along with my wife in 2026.

[BashirB]

In that case, your children will still remain Indian as they have right to Indian nationality through either of you.

Given the timelines, I don't think they would get naturalised within 3 years of you getting your citizenship. So it's either you S&R now and take OCI, or keep on travelling on eVisa and pay £160 penalty when you S&R together with them. As long as you don't use the Indian passport for travel, there is nothing to worry about.

[SunnySingh12]

Thanks for the replies so far very helpful.

I went to the VFS to surrender and they told me (i asked the question) that my minor child would not be able to renew their passport in India because of this renunciation process many people are facing this problem but the Indian government is not doing anything about it. He also added that the process is fairly new. Many people's minor children with passports from different countries are facing issues.

I reconfirmed with him that my son who lives in India with an Indian mother both Indian citizens by birth, will my son still face issues with his passport renewal in India and he responded yes. This is very hard to believe especially if I lost my citizenship under section 9. The only reason I am renouncing under section 8 is because the OCI process is forcing me to do it and there is no option to do it otherwise.

Please guide me if anybody knows how to approach this. I do not want my son to face passport renewal issues.

[thevar]

Thanks for the replies so far very helpful.

I went to the VFS to surrender and they told me (i asked the question) that my minor child would not be able to renew their passport in India because of this renunciation process many people are facing this problem but the Indian government is not doing anything about it. He also added that the process is fairly new. Many people's minor children with passports from different countries are facing issues.

I reconfirmed with him that my son who lives in India with an Indian mother both Indian citizens by birth, will my son still face issues with his passport renewal in India and he responded yes. This is very hard to believe especially if I lost my citizenship under section 9. The only reason I am renouncing under section 8 is because the OCI process is forcing me to do it and there is no option to do it otherwise.
There is option - and that is e-visa on UK passport as suggested by BashirB in one of the posts above.

Please guide me if anybody knows how to approach this. I do not want my son to face passport renewal issues.

[SunnySingh12]

[quote=thevar post_id=2147905 time=1706874358 user_id=221151]
[quote=SunnySingh12 post_id=2147903 time=1706873778 user_id=285668]
Thanks for the replies so far very helpful.

I went to the VFS to surrender and they told me (i asked the question) that my minor child would not be able to renew their passport in India because of this renunciation process many people are facing this problem but the Indian government is not doing anything about it. He also added that the process is fairly new. Many people's minor children with passports from different countries are facing issues.

I reconfirmed with him that my son who lives in India with an Indian mother both Indian citizens by birth, will my son still face issues with his passport renewal in India and he responded yes. This is very hard to believe especially if I lost my citizenship under section 9. The only reason I am renouncing under section 8 is because the OCI process is forcing me to do it and there is [highlight=yellow]no option to do it otherwise[/highlight].
[b]There is option - and that is e-visa on UK passport as suggested by [b]BashirB [/b]in one of the posts above.[/b]

Please guide me if anybody knows how to approach this. I do not want my son to face passport renewal issues.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I don't think so, I was talking about getting OCI, an e-visa on a British passport doesn't get me OCI

[thevar]

Thanks for the replies so far very helpful.

I went to the VFS to surrender and they told me (i asked the question) that my minor child would not be able to renew their passport in India because of this renunciation process many people are facing this problem but the Indian government is not doing anything about it. He also added that the process is fairly new. Many people's minor children with passports from different countries are facing issues.

I reconfirmed with him that my son who lives in India with an Indian mother both Indian citizens by birth, will my son still face issues with his passport renewal in India and he responded yes. This is very hard to believe especially if I lost my citizenship under section 9. The only reason I am renouncing under section 8 is because the OCI process is forcing me to do it and there is no option to do it otherwise.
There is option - and that is e-visa on UK passport as suggested by BashirB in one of the posts above.

Please guide me if anybody knows how to approach this. I do not want my son to face passport renewal issues.

I don't think so, I was talking about getting OCI, an e-visa on a British passport doesn't get me OCI

The alternative to OCI is to get evisa on UK passport. There is no other option for your situation in my view.

[BashirB]

Not sure what the authority of the person who you spoke to is. VFS personnel are not experts or decision makers and I would take that with a pinch of salt.

I am sure if I asked a VFS person about visa approvals on Delhi, he would say that half of them are rejected. Which may be factually true, but without knowing the circumstances of those, it would be wrong to assume that you will have a 50/50 chance of approval.

Coming to question on hand, a child born in India is entitled to Indian citizenship if either of his parents are Indian. There is no requirement for both parents to be Indian. Is the VFS guy suggesting that in scenarios where parents are divorced and father takes another citizenship, the child will lose his, even though the mother is still Indian.

Don't follow hear say, the law is clear, entitlement can be from either parent and nothing to worry about.

The issue of renewal of those with passports issued abroad is a common one, not just because of this OCI or renunciation process. The default presumption is that the holder has acquired a foreign nationality if they have lived overseas long enough to qualify for it. The onus is on the applicant to prove he hasn't. And it becomes difficult to prove for a child whose parent has acquired foreign nationality. Hope that makes it clear

[SunnySingh12]

Thanks, @BashirB. It has been my assumption too and I am reasonably confident that the government would not abandon a child born in India living with an Indian mother and (ailing Indian grandparents) and deny him a passport.

I haven't been myself for the past 4 hours since I heard the guy at the counter, I truly tried to explain the scenario to him in a way that he couldn't misunderstand but I guess, he didn't know. Thanks for responding it is helpful.

[kihiq2024]

Hi,

Has anyone got the solution for this issue?

Thanks

[sathyauk]

I hope you can apply for British Citizen, if you child is stateless. You look into this option as work around

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-stateless

[kihiq2024]

Thanks Brother. However they are saying

"one of your parents was British citizen, British overseas territories citizen, British overseas citizen or British subject when you were born."

When he was born I was not holding the citizenship.

Any other ways for the child to get the passport renewed?

Thanks

[Shaleena]

I went to vfs to renew both mine and my daughter's Indian passport. They accepted mine but not my daughter's as my husband is British citizen by naturalisation.
She was born in India while both of us were Indian citizen. They just took her application without the original passport and said if there is any change in decision will call us to submit the passport and the fee.
It seems they started implementing this rule few weeks back.
I have already booked tickets to India for July as the prices were skyrocketing ... Now I am afraid that I will lose my money as the British citizenship process is slow