need unity over PSW refusal

[aaabc123]

hi all
i think all candiates from cambridge needs unity and collectively apply for appeal.
many students of cambridge college got trheir visas on PGD business managment a few months ago
and HO verify them at that time
how they say now that this course is not offered by college

[Frontier Mole]

Because the college was closed down by UKBA, it no longer trades or operates as a college, the operators were arrested and the qualifications granted under the PGD's are all fake.

Those that got visas based on CCL PGD’s in the past are more than likely to get their PSW visa revoked.

So standing up as a group and claiming that you are all genuine would be a somewhat dim idea. For one thing if you all did appeal as a group that would help UKBA prove that you could not even fit inside the college never mind graduate together…..

Hope that helps

[gladiator123]

I think dat is really good idea to be unit and resist on the refusals by putting ur case on appeal togather. It may create pressure to UKBA to change his mind. That institutions should be penalized rather then students.

[killomachi]

this is a good idea, at least you can raise money and appoint best solicitors in the country and will cost you less than individual cases with trainee solicitors

I am not a CCL students, otherwise I will be the first to join

don't listen to FM this time, he wants you to give up and leave this country

[khalidsam]

To all my friends who got stuck with cambridge college, i would like to bring up the facts that i have seen with my own eyes. This college had a receptionist who couldn't even understand english and anytime phone would ring he would run to get a hold of a guy named hafiz. this college only had 2 rooms with no credible staff to statisfy any one with reason that actual lectures did take place ever. Friends for those of you who have had their refusals i would say best of luck in future as very little help could be offered here in the UK for them. But those who do have applications in pending could wisely withdraw their applications and save them from deportation orders. This could save them from getting their record black listed.
thanks

[rizwan567]

I endorse the comments of 'Khalidsam'. The only feasible option would be withdrawing the application. Othrewise be prepred to see the worse. One thing is for sure, there is no genuine student from CCL. Ais hamam main sabhi nungay hain!!!!!!!! Closure of this college was inevitable. It had to happen one day. I have not seen more greedy college than CCL. This was just the trailer. After the launch of Tier 4 UKBA indirectly will have grip over all the students in the U.K.

There have been colleges in the past which were closed and students who have had visas based from the documents of those colleges were affected but not in mass. Because student visa extension are applied through the year and at any given time the application from any college usually do not exceed above 200-300. so if the college is closed then only 200-300 applicants are affected. But due to 30 Oct 2008 (maintenance funds flexible transitional deadline) college and agents associated with college tried to make maximum money before the deadline. Because after the 30 Oct 2008 student should had bank statement of 3 months with balance not dropping below £800. Before the deadline of 30 Oct 2008, applications were sent to HO in mass. And now the college is closed. So all of you are traped together. Its just like lots of fish caught in a net at the same time due to the 30 Oct 2008 maintenance funds deadline.

Above was bit discouraging, wasn't it? Now I come to bit encouraging side:

There are following scenarios:

1. Application is approved (viz highly unlikely)
2. Withdraw the application.
3. Get the refusal and hope that you are given the right of appeal.

Hire a solicitor/barristor and advise him/her to linger on the appeal process. Appeal, re-appeal in the higher court or judicial review in the end. I am aware the lawyers could take appeal process from 12 months to 36 months. So you will remain legal until all the appeal avenues are closed. However in all this time you wont be able to travel because you wont have valid visa to fly back into the country.

On what basis you will get the appeal successful, please advise me:

The only argument you guys have that if HO approved the other applications from CCL then you also have legitimate expectation to have your application approved. This is the only small/weak argument, apart from this you do not have a the weakest of the argument to rely on in the court. And the basis of this small argument is also wrong. If earlier applications were approved wrongly it does not mean that HO carry on the wrong practice for all of you. Logical enough!! Isn't it..

And one very important point, if the CCL college and staff during interogation by government agencies have already accepted that no class was ever run then where you appeal case stands????????????? Ofcourse your judge will have copy of the results of such interogation.

And those who claim to be genuine students are unlikely to last even the smallest session of cross questioning by the judge and solicitor of HO (if present). Your top solicitor/barristor will not be able to save you. This case will make your top solicitor/barristor humilated in the court instead! And mind you something, a reputated solicitor/barristor do not take on weak cases like this one. The only lawyer who will take your case is that who is hungary for money not for success. As there is no basis of this case.

Therefore hire a top lawyer who specialize on ligering on the justice process.

I was just trying to analyse the whole situation bases on my thoughts, but still my heartiest sympthies are with all of you and I hope and wish something good will happen to all of you.

[salam123]

I endorse the comments of 'Khalidsam'. The only feasible option would be withdrawing the application. Othrewise be prepred to see the worse. One thing is for sure, there is no genuine student from CCL. Ais hamam main sabhi nungay hain!!!!!!!! Closure of this college was inevitable. It had to happen one day. I have not seen more greedy college than CCL. This was just the trailer. After the launch of Tier 4 UKBA indirectly will have grip over all the students in the U.K.

There have been colleges in the past which were closed and students who have had visas based from the documents of those colleges were affected but not in mass. Because student visa extension are applied through the year and at any given time the application from any college usually do not exceed above 200-300. so if the college is closed then only 200-300 applicants are affected. But due to 30 Oct 2008 (maintenance funds flexible transitional deadline) college and agents associated with college tried to make maximum money before the deadline. Because after the 30 Oct 2008 student should had bank statement of 3 months with balance not dropping below £800. Before the deadline of 30 Oct 2008, applications were sent to HO in mass. And now the college is closed. So all of you are traped together. Its just like lots of fish caught in a net at the same time due to the 30 Oct 2008 maintenance funds deadline.

Above was bit discouraging, wasn't it? Now I come to bit encouraging side:

There are following scenarios:

1. Application is approved (viz highly unlikely)
2. Withdraw the application.
3. Get the refusal and hope that you are given the right of appeal.

Hire a solicitor/barristor and advise him/her to linger on the appeal process. Appeal, re-appeal in the higher court or judicial review in the end. I am aware the lawyers could take appeal process from 12 months to 36 months. So you will remain legal until all the appeal avenues are closed. However in all this time you wont be able to travel because you wont have valid visa to fly back into the country.

On what basis you will get the appeal successful, please advise me:

The only argument you guys have that if HO approved the other applications from CCL then you also have legitimate expectation to have your application approved. This is the only small/weak argument, apart from this you do not have a the weakest of the argument to rely on in the court. And the basis of this small argument is also wrong. If earlier applications were approved wrongly it does not mean that HO carry on the wrong practice for all of you. Logical enough!! Isn't it..

And one very important point, if the CCL college and staff during interogation by government agencies have already accepted that no class was ever run then where you appeal case stands????????????? Ofcourse your judge will have copy of the results of such interogation.

And those who claim to be genuine students are unlikely to last even the smallest session of cross questioning by the judge and solicitor of HO (if present). Your top solicitor/barristor will not be able to save you. This case will make your top solicitor/barristor humilated in the court instead! And mind you something, a reputated solicitor/barristor do not take on weak cases like this one. The only lawyer who will take your case is that who is hungary for money not for success. As there is no basis of this case.

Therefore hire a top lawyer who specialize on ligering on the justice process.

I was just trying to analyse the whole situation bases on my thoughts, but still my heartiest sympthies are with all of you and I hope and wish something good will happen to all of you.

this is so sad....................do u know anything baout the other colleges? like bite...lcmit...............

[Frontier Mole]

The idea of delaying the legal process to stay on in the UK is an excellent idea. HOWEVER:

Given the appellant has only so many days to appeal and the AIT will list the hearing very quickly. So where does the lawyer delay the process?

AIT is aware of these stunts and will not go along with it, adjournments will not be granted. UKBA will pursue quick hearings and as the cases will take at best 20 - 30 minutes of court time there will be room for about 8 to 10 cases per court.

UKBA & AIT work together to deal with these kinds of issues, so I think your grand plan is very flawed.

There are some lawyers out there who will gladly take the CCL "students" money.

As for legitimate expectation - it is legitimate to expect that a fake qualification from a bogus college will get a PSW visa? Now that is the most ludicrous suggestion I have heard for a very long time

[rizwan567]

This is where a good lawyer can delay the process. There could be many reasons, say on the production of medical grounds alone. Only the time will tell if this grand plan will work out. AIT and UKBA is efficient but not as efficient as it sounds from your exaggerated posts. Your exaggerated posts are not going to make HO more efficient than what actually they are. Ground reality is very different. You can guague the efficiency of HO by counting the number of so called students not studying and working full time in the U.K markets!!! Your HO is not cracking them down. I think you know the reasons better than I do. Closure of 4-5 colleges does not mean in any way that objective is acheived. This is just the first step forward, 99 steps are still to go. It could take 2-10 years to make the system full proof. This is just because of mass number of applications before 30 Oct 2008 (maintenance funds) deadline that HO has by chance came to know about this PSW and CCL issue.. Otherwise this thing was happening seeminglessly from last 15 months... HO has just hunted a small fish and you are shouting like whole river been cleaned! That BBC documentry was intersting where they measured the efficiency of HO and new Tier system in true sense.... Credit goes to BBC not HO, which had to act on the issue to save their dignity. Otherwise all of us know their efficiecy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7775544.stm

I tell you what happens in this country... there are so many scams (money, sex crimes, drugs, human trafficking, immigration, rapes, murders) happening here... but governments agencies are not doing enough to investigate them. They do not have time and resources etc. There were so many knife crimes in the street of London last year alone. How many of offenders are caught and prosecuted?????????? 90% of those offenders are still walking on the streets... Then all of a sudden Police or any other government agency get a success on any single case and advertise their STUNT on media to let other offenders know that they are being watched. This is just the tool and tactics to stop new offenders. But ground reality is much different. And Mr. FM is also using this tactics


And fortunately or unfortunately there are certain laws in the U.K which restrict the deportations process even if someone is caught working illegal and even found without any ID. Please see below and similar youtube video as an evidence, even the members of HO can not deport anyone they are sure of someone being working illegal/over stayer etc

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub5Ak14ON ... re=related

Everyone is suggested to see above and similar videos at youtube.com..it will increase your immigration knowlege and immigration procedures in the U.K.

FM, I never said that CCL appeal cases will be won. So i feel like you are arguing over nothing.

[Steve_guru]

Heres a suggestion to save cost and for need unity over PSW refusal:

Book the Airtickets of all those leaving the countries at one go, you guys will save money, perhaps in 1-2 airplanes you all can be accomodated and at a much cheaper price...

[killomachi]

Heres a suggestion to save cost and for need unity over PSW refusal:

Book the Airtickets of all those leaving the countries at one go, you guys will save money, perhaps in 1-2 airplanes you all can be accomodated and at a much cheaper price...

this one is really funny one

but honestly poor "students" don't need comedy now, they need hope and some ideas, try to give some or ....

[Steve_guru]

post your number here so thse guys can call you and seek your professional advice.

we can set up a 800 too.

[rizwan567]

Steve, Until yesterdy you were talking about legal rights, justice etc and today you have interesting signature 'kicking the law breakers'

From your other posts
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Its like every criminal has right to defend this case. Even if one day Osama bin Laden is caught, he will definitely have the right to defend his actions- thts Law.

similar way, right to appeal has been given to a few students whose history on applications doesnt really point towards a deliberate fraudster maybe because of educational background in the past or whatsover reason, But as CCL is blacklisted visa is rejected.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Is it mandatory for you to leave comments on every single post on this forum.
You just joined three days back and already have 40 posts.
Quality of your posts is poor. None of your posts contain any immigration advice what so ever. Actually they are all about having arguments with others. This clearly tell the depth of your chracter and personality.
You already had a sever pat with somone on other thread.
Kindly improve the quality of your posts and write something useful instead of arguments and counter arguments.

[aaabc123]

hi all
all of us try to get out of this sitution
even if this all is scam
who allow the students to deceived
innocent people are trapped
if HO wants to take some action,
take some action against the people who got million pounds by fraude
and atleast give some compensation to victim students
bcz HO and government is responsible for this fraude
they provide cambridge college a cchance to deceive innocent students

[Frontier Mole]

Is it mandatory for you to leave comments on every single post on this forum.
You just joined three days back and already have 40 posts.
Quality of your posts is poor. None of your posts contain any immigration advice what so ever. Actually they are all about having arguments with others. This clearly tell the depth of your chracter and personality.
You already had a sever pat with somone on other thread.
Kindly improve the quality of your posts and write something useful instead of arguments and counter arguments.

Seems funny that you want to pick on this individual when the most useless poster on the PSW forum is certainly not this one. Salam123 wins that award hands down; he even creates new accounts to argue with himself!

As for efficiency of the UKBA - my last trip to court dealt with 10 PBS appeals in the day. So I can confidently state that it can be achieved.

As for your grand plan it will be interesting to see how far it gets our CCL friends. The vast majority do not even have a right of appeal in any case.

The BBC expose or lack of for CCL was a major set back to the BBC. A Panorama program was canned because CCL was raided before the program could be prepared. Hence the rushed media output we were left with.

As for the other colleges recently closed down, there are a whole lot more than 4 or 5. On top of that there are those that have been denied the tier 4 PBS licence. There are now many thousands of bogus students without a legal route to remain in the UK. The very fact that this forum has generated tens of thousands of hits on the CCL subject alone points to how many "students" are out of luck. There will be many thousands more joining that number in the coming months.

As for worrying about passports for removal - PSW "students" do not get their passports back once they are refused. So that is not the problem you suggest it would be.

As for other crimes and the other points you allude to. Yes there are problems in the UK, as with every other developed country in the world. If this is such an unattractive country why are so many people intent on coming to the UK to live, study or work? Perhaps the UK is so much better than their own country?

Perhaps you can answer a question I have? Why is it one particular country produces more bogus students and illegal workers than any other? It is also amusing as they are the most vocal culprits when they get caught, the most likely to blame the UK system while being the most likely to abuse the same system.

[Diokpa]

As for worrying about passports for removal - PSW "students" do not get their passports back once they are refused. So that is not the problem you suggest it would be.

I guess you meant fake students, no need mincing words 'cos they do know themselves...lol. PSW refusals do get right of appeal and receive back their passports back but I think CCL students are having their passport witheld.

[Frontier Mole]

"Students" = not students at all but claimed students.

As for right of appeal. The same rule applies for CCL as any other PSW refusal. If the applicant has leave to remain on their existing visa they do not attract a right of appeal.

No matter what, if your visa expires during PSW application process and the PSW is refused then the passport will be retained. This is SOP for UKBA.

[PaperPusher]

See here for an idea about how many collges get removed from the register, although it is out of date:

Written answers 27 Feb 2008

[Steve_guru]

Mr Rizwan- aka. Member of Standing- who are you point me on this public forum. I just quoted my thougts on the issue.

so you calculated the number of posts- good job!! bravo!!

Immigration advice- or illegal immigration advice- so you want me to give all the illgeal immigrants a way out this trouble which you are actually supporting, stated by your thoughts- dont speak on characted or quality of work, As mentioned on the forum guidelines- this forum doesnt support anything which can be termed as illegal, so you better watch your steps.

I believe in giving legal advice and not illegal advice- and yes thats how the signature is defined, unlike the member of standing --- change it to member of illegal immigrants support forum.

UK is getting better and better and wll always be the best and in order to support this cause, we need to clear the junk first!!!

[Diokpa]

No matter what, if your visa expires during PSW application process and the PSW is refused then the passport will be retained. This is SOP for UKBA.

That is WRONG INFO! People with right of appeal get their passports back even if their visas get expired during the application process. The only exception to this would probably be those who are from CCL, are u sure you work for the home office dude? Stop giving out wrong info!

[Frontier Mole]

If your right to remain terminates, is revoked, curtailed or the leave has expired while your passport is held by UKBA then your passport is retained. Right of appeal or not.

It is a simple matter of prudence, UKBA retains the passport to effect a removal at a later time or to prove to your embassy or HC that you are who we think you are to obtain an ETD. If you win at appeal the passport is returned.

There will be CCL students with PSW refusals who receive their passports back as they have leave remaining under another visa.

[Diokpa]

You are really not making any point because HO doesn't retain your passport when they refuse you leave to remain. CCL students are in a class of their own and they have used false documents and in effect they are wrong and I can see why they retain their passports.
I have a friend who was refused on grounds of insufficient funds and the passport was returned, so my "HO staff", you don't know what you are talking about in that aspect! HO does not retain passports when they refuse leave to remain even on the PBS. Now I see how some home office staff are incompetent when you are not even versed in the procedures of the establishment you represent!

If you win at appeal, they send you a letter on how to send down your passport to the HO and that's if they are not contesting the determination by the tribunal. You really don't have a clue, do you?

[koolbone]

I actually never planned on joining this forum due to the deplorable depths it's reached no thanks to the bogus students that have started posting on it in recent times. However, I had to because of Frontier Mole's insistence on giving wrong info (in this case) despite Diokpa trying to correct him.
If you're not involved in deception, and you apply for the PSW and your visa expires while your application was still with the HO, if you're refused, your passport will be returned with the appeal forms. This happened to me, not some friend of mine.
I was refused simply because my University's board had not met to confirm my results (although I had received them) before I applied. My passport' was returned to me and right now, I'm simply waiting for my hearing date, 1st week in February.
FM, you've given beneficial advice in the past and for that, I feel you should be commended. However, in this case, you're blatantly wrong and I find it odd that someone who supposedly works for the HO is giving such wrong info and still insisting on it being right. Sort yourself out mate.

[Frontier Mole]

Section 17 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004 confers on the Secretary of State the power to retain passports and other documents.

The Act reads:

Section 17 Retention of Documents

Where a document comes into the possession of the Secretary of State or an immigration officer in the course of the exercise of an immigration function, the Secretary of State or an immigration officer may retain the document while he suspects that a person to whom the document relates may be liable to removal from the United Kingdom in accordance with a provision of the Immigration Acts,
and retention of the document may facilitate the removal.

Section 17 came into effect on 1 December 2004.
The Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004 can be viewed at:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/20040019.htm.

I also think it is deplorable that certain people believe they know the law and comment on it when it is plainly obvious that they don't.

[Diokpa]

Section 17 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004 confers on the Secretary of State the power to retain passports and other documents.

The Act reads:

Section 17 Retention of Documents

Where a document comes into the possession of the Secretary of State or an immigration officer in the course of the exercise of an immigration function, the Secretary of State or an immigration officer may retain the document while he suspects that a person to whom the document relates may be liable to removal from the United Kingdom in accordance with a provision of the Immigration Acts,
and retention of the document may facilitate the removal.

Section 17 came into effect on 1 December 2004.
The Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004 can be viewed at:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/20040019.htm.

I also think it is deplorable that certain people believe they know the law and comment on it when it is plainly obvious that they don't.

Even more deplorable when so-called HO staff do not know what is obtainable and expected of them. If you don't know what happens within the organisation you claim to work for, don't come in here quoting laws which don't depict the actual day to day runnings of the HO. They do not retain passports excepts on grounds similar to those which CCL students find themselves in and the earlier you get that fact right, the better for you. I can't imagine YOU actually represent the HO in court, that's just hilarious!...LOL