non-EEA spouse of UK citizen, FLR, Schengen Appl. Specifics

[LamplighterUK]

Hi

Firstly, prior apologies for any questions with answers duplicated elsewhere - I'd be happy to follow any links posted!

I am recently married. My wife is Ukrainian, and now has FLR(M) status granted in UK valid for two years; I am a British citizen.

We intend to travel in the summer by road from UK through Schengen to Ukraine, through F, B, NE, D and PL. Also when we fly to Ukraine, it is often the best option to overnight in Warsaw.

I understand that not all states have implemented visa-free entry for spouses of EU citizens (Directive 2004/38/EC), notably France as evident from their website.

Therefore, I am completing the Schengen Application Form from the French Embassy website, and the associated questionnaire for family members.

I have some specific questions on the Application Form, the answers to which are not immediately evident elsewhere. I understand that there are some questions not requiring a response (*), but I would be grateful for assistance on others!!

21. Main Destination. I have entered "UKRAINE via Schengen Transit States (F, B, NE, D, PL) also Tourism" - is this OK?

22 - 25. Visa Type. If possible, I want the Schengen visa to run for the duration of the UK residency, i.e. until March 2011. Is this possible? What therefore should be the responses?
22. Short stay
23. Individual
24. Multipl
25. Valid to 03.2011
- alternatively, what is possible that best suits our requirements?

27. Final Destination. I have answered "Yes, By Citizenship" - is this OK?


I'd be very grateful either for some direct assistance on completing these items on the form, or for a pointer to where I might find the information.

Many, many thanks in advance.
Regards, Lamp

[Wanderer]

If it's her first Schengen visa chances are it will a single entry short term on for the planned duration of the holiday. YMMV tho!

Also she'll need Schengen visas when she gets ILR too - in fact until she takes Citizenship which she might not want since she would lose her Ukrainian citizenship.

[LamplighterUK]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Wanderer

My wife has a Schengen transit visa already (type B, multi-entry, 5 days max duration per stay), which was issued by the Polish Consul in Lutsk, Ukraine, and obtained on the basis of her UK Student Entry clearance.

The visa is valid for the duration of her student entry clearance, which was 9 months in total, and both terminate in June 09.

Now that she has FLR(M) until March 2011, and as we wish to travel after June 09, this is why we're looking at a renewed Schengen visa. I'm hoping that as the previous visa was multiple entry and of longer duration, this will again be the case!!

One option is to apply to the French Embassy in London, the other to the Polish Consul in Lutsk whilst we are in Ukraine in April. However, I favour the first option as the Lutsk consul do not offer a same-day service.

The specifics really are how to complete the form to obtain the best possible outcome!! We don't relish routine trips to London to obtain new visas for every trip!

Cheers, Lamp

[Richard66]

Stuff and nonsense! The Schengen visa for family members can only be an entry visa. As the family member of an EU citizen your wife is allowed to stay in any EEA state, if together with you, for up to 90 days. She needs no other document than a valid passport and her entry visa.

[LamplighterUK]

As the family member of an EU citizen your wife is allowed to stay in any EEA state, if together with you, for up to 90 days.

Richard, that's great news if it's correct! However, it's not what I glean from the French Embassy webpage.

She needs no other document than a valid passport and her entry visa.

What visa? Do you mean her UK-limited leave to remain?

Stuff and nonsense!

That is what I want to avoid, and consequential problems at the border entry points.

I'd still be grateful of a definitive answer, being:
a) no Schengen visa required, and this is where it says so, or
b) visa required, and fill in the form sects. 21 to 25 as follows!


Many thanks
Lamp!

[andyfish]

I have just looked at the French website and it says "as from March 2009, the foreign spouse of an eu national may enter france without a visa if they hold a uk residence permit with the endorsement "family member of EEA national"

the catch22 is that the Uk agency do not have any idea how to get the endorsement!!

Iam trying to call the EU bit to check, but haven't yet got through

08450105200

[Ben]

08450105200

Unrelated to your post, but I would ring 01516725626, instead of 08450105200. Cheaper.

http://saynoto0870.com/

[Ben]

I have just looked at the French website and it says "as from March 2009, the foreign spouse of an eu national may enter france without a visa if they hold a uk residence permit with the endorsement "family member of EEA national"

the catch22 is that the Uk agency do not have any idea how to get the endorsement!!

A UK Residence Card, endorsed as "family member of EEA national", is given to an eligible person who has submitted form EEA2. It takes 6 months to process (theoretically).

[andyfish]

thanks for that


^ 6 months!! those lovely people in the UKBA must really be working hard

[LamplighterUK]

A UK Residence Card, endorsed as "family member of EEA national", is given to an eligible person who has submitted form EEA2. It takes 6 months to process (theoretically).

I've had a look at the form. As I see, this is applicable for non-EEA spouses of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK. It's not clear to me that a non-EEA spouse of a UK citizen can use this form to obtain entry clearance for Europe.

[Ben]

A UK Residence Card, endorsed as "family member of EEA national", is given to an eligible person who has submitted form EEA2. It takes 6 months to process (theoretically).

I've had a look at the form. As I see, this is applicable for non-EEA spouses of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK. It's not clear to me that a non-EEA spouse of a UK citizen can use this form to obtain entry clearance for Europe.

You are correct. This is applicable for non-EEA family members of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK. Family members of UK citizens are usually excluded.

[andyfish]

so that is the wrong form! it is for the non-EU spouse of an EU member living in the UK, so that he/she can live in the UK too

trouble is, nobody in the UKBA knows anything about it, they just pass you on to another dept

[LamplighterUK]

so that is the wrong form! it is for the non-EU spouse of an EU member living in the UK, so that he/she can live in the UK too

trouble is, nobody in the UKBA knows anything about it, they just pass you on to another dept

Yup! And what I'm trying to understand is what my wife, who is a UK resident and married to me, a UK citizen, but who is a non-EEA national (Ukrainian) herself, needs in order to travel in the Schengen zone!

We will drive together from UK to Ukraine, and back, in the summer.

As I understand the situation at the moment, she will not get through French immigration with her passport and UK Residency card but without a Schengen visa.

However, on the way back, she will have no problem entering the Schengen zone through the Polish border, as Poland do not require her to have a visa.

I guess one option might be for her to fly to Ukraine whilst I drive, then us returning by car together?!!

Damned confusing!! - but thanks for the comments.

[Ben]

so that is the wrong form! it is for the non-EU spouse of an EU member living in the UK, so that he/she can live in the UK too

trouble is, nobody in the UKBA knows anything about it, they just pass you on to another dept

Yup! And what I'm trying to understand is what my wife, who is a UK resident and married to me, a UK citizen, but who is a non-EEA national (Ukrainian) herself, needs in order to travel in the Schengen zone!

We will drive together from UK to Ukraine, and back, in the summer.

As I understand the situation at the moment, she will not get through French immigration with her passport and UK Residency card but without a Schengen visa.

However, on the way back, she will have no problem entering the Schengen zone through the Polish border, as Poland do not require her to have a visa.

I guess one option might be for her to fly to Ukraine whilst I drive, then us returning by car together?!!

Damned confusing!! - but thanks for the comments.

Hi LamplighterUK,

Your wife needs a Schengen visa. Apply to the French embassy in London. It will be free, and must be issued as soon as possible.

FYI - Poland, as a Schengen country, does require Ukrainian citizens to hold a valid Schengen visa, as a condition of entry. Why did you think this was not so?

[LamplighterUK]

Hi benifa

FYI - Poland, as a Schengen country, does require Ukrainian citizens to hold a valid Schengen visa, as a condition of entry. Why did you think this was not so?

To quote from the website of the polish embassy in london.

http://www.londynkg.polemb.net/index.ph ... bb49aabff0

If you are a spouse of the EU national (but not of the Polish citizen), please, note that, on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC you do not need an entry visa to enter Poland if all of these three conditions are fulfilled:


1. You are married to an EU-citizen but not to a Polish citizen,

2. You are a holder of
-the British "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National",
or
-the British "Limited leave to remain in the United Kingdom",
or
-the British "Indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom",

3. You are accompanied by your spouse (EU-national) when travelling to Poland.

Please, make sure you hold the original of your marriage certificate which may be requested to present upon arrival to Poland.

Your wife needs a Schengen visa. Apply to the French embassy in London. It will be free, and must be issued as soon as possible.

It is free, as far as I can see. The earliest date for appointments at present is 9 May, but the visa can be issued on the same day. However, my wife already has a Schengen transit visa issued by the Polish embassy before we were married, which is valid until mid-June. As we will travel in early August, we need a new Schengen visa for entry to France, but I'm not clear whether we can apply for this before the existing visa expires. I've contacted the French Embassy, but a reply has not been forthcoming!

Cheers

[torger]

Legally under EU law you need NO visa to enter Schegan if she travels with you (UK citizen). The border guard is NOT allowed to turn you back providing you and your wife can prove the relationship (i.e. marriage certificate). The problem is that most EU countries ignore the rules and expect a visa to be issued to a "visa" national and airlines will not let you board without a visa. But if you can get to an immigration post (such as a land border crossing) then you can argue your case with the border guard and you will win. I have a Kazakhstani wife (I am Irish/UK national) and I am sick of being treated like a leper every time we cross a border. I have on 2 occasions tried and successfully negotiated entry to Schengan zone without my wife having a visa (2 out of 2 attempts - once entering France, once entering Germany). You also need to think of some tricks to get on the airline. For example if you fancy a trip to Germany, get a flight to the Ukraine via Berlin (or wherever). The airline will let you board as they see you as transit (i.e. no visa required), then present yourself to immigration with passport and marriage certificate. They will admit you because they have to!!!! They are absolutely NOT allowed to split up families. Imagine you (and even better if there are children) are admitted (with an EU passport) and the wife is sent back....no no no, will never happen, never never never and most border guards know this and the ones that do not you can have sport making them squirm.....

[Rozen]

Legally under EU law you need NO visa to enter Schegan if she travels with you (UK citizen). The border guard is NOT allowed to turn you back providing you and your wife can prove the relationship (i.e. marriage certificate). The problem is that most EU countries ignore the rules and expect a visa to be issued to a "visa" national and airlines will not let you board without a visa. But if you can get to an immigration post (such as a land border crossing) then you can argue your case with the border guard and you will win. I have a Kazakhstani wife (I am Irish/UK national) and I am sick of being treated like a leper every time we cross a border. I have on 2 occasions tried and successfully negotiated entry to Schengan zone without my wife having a visa (2 out of 2 attempts - once entering France, once entering Germany). You also need to think of some tricks to get on the airline. For example if you fancy a trip to Germany, get a flight to the Ukraine via Berlin (or wherever). The airline will let you board as they see you as transit (i.e. no visa required), then present yourself to immigration with passport and marriage certificate. They will admit you because they have to!!!! They are absolutely NOT allowed to split up families. Imagine you (and even better if there are children) are admitted (with an EU passport) and the wife is sent back....no no no, will never happen, never never never and most border guards know this and the ones that do not you can have sport making them squirm.....

All well and good if you have the energy and time to go through the hassle of explaining, arguing and pleading your case, till you're blue in the face!
Better to just apply for the schengen visa and have a stress free journey.

[dublin3]

Hi benifa

FYI - Poland, as a Schengen country, does require Ukrainian citizens to hold a valid Schengen visa, as a condition of entry. Why did you think this was not so?

To quote from the website of the polish embassy in london.

http://www.londynkg.polemb.net/index.ph ... bb49aabff0

If you are a spouse of the EU national (but not of the Polish citizen), please, note that, on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC you do not need an entry visa to enter Poland if all of these three conditions are fulfilled:


1. You are married to an EU-citizen but not to a Polish citizen,

2. You are a holder of
-the British "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National",
or
-the British "Limited leave to remain in the United Kingdom",
or
-the British "Indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom",

3. You are accompanied by your spouse (EU-national) when travelling to Poland.

Please, make sure you hold the original of your marriage certificate which may be requested to present upon arrival to Poland.

Your wife needs a Schengen visa. Apply to the French embassy in London. It will be free, and must be issued as soon as possible.

It is free, as far as I can see. The earliest date for appointments at present is 9 May, but the visa can be issued on the same day. However, my wife already has a Schengen transit visa issued by the Polish embassy before we were married, which is valid until mid-June. As we will travel in early August, we need a new Schengen visa for entry to France, but I'm not clear whether we can apply for this before the existing visa expires. I've contacted the French Embassy, but a reply has not been forthcoming!

Cheers

with all these documents your wife should hold a residence card which states Family member of an EU citizen.
visa is required for your wife and best option for you is apply for Polish.

[Pakhtoon]

Hi benifa

FYI - Poland, as a Schengen country, does require Ukrainian citizens to hold a valid Schengen visa, as a condition of entry. Why did you think this was not so?

To quote from the website of the polish embassy in london.

http://www.londynkg.polemb.net/index.ph ... bb49aabff0

If you are a spouse of the EU national (but not of the Polish citizen), please, note that, on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC you do not need an entry visa to enter Poland if all of these three conditions are fulfilled:


1. You are married to an EU-citizen but not to a Polish citizen,

2. You are a holder of
-the British "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National",
or
-the British "Limited leave to remain in the United Kingdom",
or
-the British "Indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom",

3. You are accompanied by your spouse (EU-national) when travelling to Poland.

Please, make sure you hold the original of your marriage certificate which may be requested to present upon arrival to Poland.

Your wife needs a Schengen visa. Apply to the French embassy in London. It will be free, and must be issued as soon as possible.

It is free, as far as I can see. The earliest date for appointments at present is 9 May, but the visa can be issued on the same day. However, my wife already has a Schengen transit visa issued by the Polish embassy before we were married, which is valid until mid-June. As we will travel in early August, we need a new Schengen visa for entry to France, but I'm not clear whether we can apply for this before the existing visa expires. I've contacted the French Embassy, but a reply has not been forthcoming!

Cheers

I will strongly advise you not to rely on this information. Polish immigration officers are the dumbest possible ones and expecting them to be aware of this law would be rather foolish.

I know only the ones at Warsaw airport but I am not ready to believe those at other airports, or border guards at land crossings are any better.

No clue about other countries but my sincere advise would be to get a visa for Poland, even if the embassy staff tells you its not needed.

[msmoby_ru]

This is applicable for non-EEA family members of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK. Family members of UK citizens are usually excluded.

?? !! Not correct, Ben

Provided the UK Citizen has exercised his / her treaty rights and lived / worked in a third EU nation - then they have every right to apply under this EU Directive.. the UKBA don't like it and will examine your application closely,

I wear the very t-shirt having applied as a UK / Irish passport holder and my [non EU passport holding ] family members have been granted EEA FP and UK Residency.

[Ben]

This is applicable for non-EEA family members of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK. Family members of UK citizens are usually excluded.

?? !! Not correct, Ben

Provided the UK Citizen has exercised his / her treaty rights and lived / worked in a third EU nation - then they have every right to apply under this EU Directive..

Family members of UK citizens are usually excluded.

I wear the very t-shirt having applied as a UK / Irish passport holder and my [non EU passport holding ] family members have been granted EEA FP and UK Residency.

If you are both an Irish citizen and a British citizen, the applications should have been made based on your Irish nationality. This would have been more straightforward than applying on the basis of the ECJ ruling on Singh.

Why put legs on a snake?

[msmoby_ru]

Because,

1/ we got married in Cyprus - using my UK Nationality - as it was less of a formality there - to be British - no certificates necessary to show you are free to marry - just a simple affidavit.

2/ We applied for EEA Family Permits from Cyprus using my British Nationality - for my non EU family members to enter the UK

3/ I wanted to apply as a Brit as I am exercising my treaty rights - and there were issues re my step-son's secondary and tertiary education rights as a home student.

..and we DO have the Residency Cards..right ! ?

[Ben]

Because,

1/ we got married in Cyprus - using my UK Nationality - as it was less of a formality there - to be British - no certificates necessary to show you are free to marry - just a simple affidavit.

It doesn't change the fact that you are an Irish national.

2/ I wanted to apply as a Brit as I am exercising my treaty rights - and there were issues re my step-son's secondary and tertiary education rights as a home student.

Your step-son's secondary and tertiary education rights would not be affected either way. An application for a Residence Card as the family member of an Irish national or as the family member of a UK national covered by Singh is identical with regards to the rights conferred and the confirmation of those rights.

Applications made under the EEA regulations as the family member of a UK national covered by Singh are not equal to applications made under the Immigration Rules.

Don't get me wrong, your family members are free to apply either as the family member of an Irish national or as the family member of a UK national covered by Singh. Both confer the same rights. The only difference is that an application as the family member of a UK national covered by Singh requires more supporting evidence. The outcome is identical, so it's really rather pointless.

[waitinggame52]

hi,

which eu country consulate in the UK issues the longest multi entry schengen visa for a non eu wife of a british citizen ?

[smriti.vipin]

Hi..
This is so confusing..

My husband (UK citizen) and I (Indian citizen, but with UK residence permit for 2 years) want to travel to Paris for 5 days for our wedding anniversary. I dont know if i should apply for a visa in advance or can I get a visa at the border?

We are planning a trip by Eurostar. We were married in the UK so we have the marriage certificate in English.

How do I go about this? My residence permit mentions nothing about "Family member of EEA national" it just says Spouse/ Partner AND Residence permit on it.