Tier 1 (General) Refusal

[bmb9ks]

Hi,

I have just received notice that my application for under Tier 1 has been refused (application from within the UK).

The grounds are that I have insufficient points. This has resulted because my "Previous Earnings" (Letter from employer and bank statements for 12 months) have not been accepted, leaving me with 65 points.

The problem is that "The employer letter submitted did not break down the earnings into monthly gross and net payments so we were unable to corroborate the evidence with the bank statements."

I have now found the guidance on p23/24 of the Tier 1 Guidance that "Where an employer letter includes only total gross and net earnings figures for the whole earnings period claimed, we will consider this document. However, only where the dates of the earning period and the total gross/net earnings stated in the letter exactly correspond with the information included in the other documentary evidence of these earnings provided, will we be able to award points."

The one possible issue that I have with this is that the amounts shown on my bank statements are in fact greater than the figure from my employer because these deposits included refunded expenses. I agree that by the strict interpretation of the guidance, they were within their rights to award me no points.

However, where does that leave me now?

I applied one month before my work permit leave to remain expired (Jan. 20 for a Feb. 19th expiry) due to the HO information, and expecting that a service costing £750 would be fast (the in person service at Croydon cost me £500 when I used it last time). I certainly did not expect to be told that my documents were not sufficient a month and a half after application.

So now that is my problem. My leave to remain has expired so I can't reapply. I have been living with my partner for more than 2 years (and have proof of this), so I could have applied under this system if I had been refused earlier.

My only option seems to be to appeal to the AIT, though I will of course get legal advice on Monday. Is there any advantage to consulting private solicitors as opposed to the Citizens Advice Bureau (my employer has contracted some of their time for various enquires including immigration)?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

KSS

[T_mahmood]

Hi

Sorry to know about your refusal.

You are right that you cannot reapply once your Leave to Remain has expired. Though there are good chances if you go to appeal. Just hire a solicitor (normally charge from £750-1000) and I believe you would be ok. He just need to proove that pay were included with the expences. Also get a letter from employer explaining these, in case of evidence before the court.


I personally feel that if you were receiving expences with your pay, you must have delcared it on covering letter and if possible on employeer's letter, so that case worker could have understood the whole case.

I wounder why you did not submitt payslips, as expences are clearly shown on the payslips. Like my company payes me expenses and these are revealed in payslips and paid a day before the pay day.

Hi,

I have just received notice that my application for under Tier 1 has been refused (application from within the UK).

The grounds are that I have insufficient points. This has resulted because my "Previous Earnings" (Letter from employer and bank statements for 12 months) have not been accepted, leaving me with 65 points.

The problem is that "The employer letter submitted did not break down the earnings into monthly gross and net payments so we were unable to corroborate the evidence with the bank statements."

I have now found the guidance on p23/24 of the Tier 1 Guidance that "Where an employer letter includes only total gross and net earnings figures for the whole earnings period claimed, we will consider this document. However, only where the dates of the earning period and the total gross/net earnings stated in the letter exactly correspond with the information included in the other documentary evidence of these earnings provided, will we be able to award points."

The one possible issue that I have with this is that the amounts shown on my bank statements are in fact greater than the figure from my employer because these deposits included refunded expenses. I agree that by the strict interpretation of the guidance, they were within their rights to award me no points.

However, where does that leave me now?

I applied one month before my work permit leave to remain expired (Jan. 20 for a Feb. 19th expiry) due to the HO information, and expecting that a service costing £750 would be fast (the in person service at Croydon cost me £500 when I used it last time). I certainly did not expect to be told that my documents were not sufficient a month and a half after application.

So now that is my problem. My leave to remain has expired so I can't reapply. I have been living with my partner for more than 2 years (and have proof of this), so I could have applied under this system if I had been refused earlier.

My only option seems to be to appeal to the AIT, though I will of course get legal advice on Monday. Is there any advantage to consulting private solicitors as opposed to the Citizens Advice Bureau (my employer has contracted some of their time for various enquires including immigration)?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

KSS

[bmb9ks]

Thanks- yes in hindsight I should have provided the payslips I had (10 months out of 12 which is why I did not use them) and taken the lower number of points, which still would have taken me well over the 75 point limit. I thought that since the payments on my bank statements were actually more than I was claiming, that there would not be a problem.

Is it more common now for the AIT to be accepting new evidence? What grounds do you appeal under? Maybe "that a discretion under the Immigration Rules should have been exercised differently"? That would cover the interpretation of the required documents.

Thanks

Hi

Sorry to know about your refusal.

You are right that you cannot reapply once your Leave to Remain has expired. Though there are good chances if you go to appeal. Just hire a solicitor (normally charge from £750-1000) and I believe you would be ok. He just need to proove that pay were included with the expences. Also get a letter from employer explaining these, in case of evidence before the court.


I personally feel that if you were receiving expences with your pay, you must have delcared it on covering letter and if possible on employeer's letter, so that case worker could have understood the whole case.

I wounder why you did not submitt payslips, as expences are clearly shown on the payslips. Like my company payes me expenses and these are revealed in payslips and paid a day before the pay day.

Hi,

I have just received notice that my application for under Tier 1 has been refused (application from within the UK).

The grounds are that I have insufficient points. This has resulted because my "Previous Earnings" (Letter from employer and bank statements for 12 months) have not been accepted, leaving me with 65 points.

The problem is that "The employer letter submitted did not break down the earnings into monthly gross and net payments so we were unable to corroborate the evidence with the bank statements."

I have now found the guidance on p23/24 of the Tier 1 Guidance that "Where an employer letter includes only total gross and net earnings figures for the whole earnings period claimed, we will consider this document. However, only where the dates of the earning period and the total gross/net earnings stated in the letter exactly correspond with the information included in the other documentary evidence of these earnings provided, will we be able to award points."

The one possible issue that I have with this is that the amounts shown on my bank statements are in fact greater than the figure from my employer because these deposits included refunded expenses. I agree that by the strict interpretation of the guidance, they were within their rights to award me no points.

However, where does that leave me now?

I applied one month before my work permit leave to remain expired (Jan. 20 for a Feb. 19th expiry) due to the HO information, and expecting that a service costing £750 would be fast (the in person service at Croydon cost me £500 when I used it last time). I certainly did not expect to be told that my documents were not sufficient a month and a half after application.

So now that is my problem. My leave to remain has expired so I can't reapply. I have been living with my partner for more than 2 years (and have proof of this), so I could have applied under this system if I had been refused earlier.

My only option seems to be to appeal to the AIT, though I will of course get legal advice on Monday. Is there any advantage to consulting private solicitors as opposed to the Citizens Advice Bureau (my employer has contracted some of their time for various enquires including immigration)?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

KSS

[T_mahmood]

In case of appeal, new evedinces are normally not accepted. But you should get in writing from your employer, if the judge asks you to proove what are claiming. The HO lawyer usually does not come with such good preperation and grounds.

[hayathuk]

sorry double post.

[hayathuk]

Hi,

I am applying as self employed and got a letter from my accountant simply showing my gross and net income for the last 12 months. The letter doesn't show gross and net income for every month. Is the same rule apply for self employed. Do i have to show gross and net income for each month.

Your help will be greatly appreciated

thanks

nasim

[bmb9ks]

Hi Nasim,

Yes, I would show gross and net income for each month so that it these values exactly match those from your other documents.

I further question - I was under the impresssion that no new evidence could be submitted to the AIT.

However, in the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 section 85 (2) states that "If an appellant under section 82(1) makes as statement under section 120 (Statement of additional grounds), the adjudicator shall consider any matter raised in the statement which constitutes a ground of appeal of a kind listed in section 84(1) against the decision appealed against."

And 85(3) - Subsection (2) applied to a statement made under section 120 whether the statement was made before of after the appeal was commenced.

Any opinions on this??

Thanks

KS

Hi,

I am applying as self employed and got a letter from my accountant simply showing my gross and net income for the last 12 months. The letter doesn't show gross and net income for every month. Is the same rule apply for self employed. Do i have to show gross and net income for each month.

Your help will be greatly appreciated

thanks

nasim

[ssoct98@hotmail.com]

BMb, you can just appeal,and show the judge all statements,they accept it,as its not important that they dont accept new evidences,Your evidences are old one,you just explaining your case.
Dont worry you won the appeal.

[nangvil]

Hi Bmb,
Sorry to hear about your case.

I have been in exactly the same position as u, recently went to AIT for appeal and won the case. I have written out my experience through the whole process in the forum, just do a search.

As long as u are able to prove that your bank statements and payslips and letter from employer all collaborate, that should be ok.

I would strongly advise you to get legal representative(private) for a few reasons. The appeal process is not as simple as u think. U have to file the initial appeal within 10 days, then produce a personal statement to be used on your day of hearing. 5 days before your hearing, you have to file your papers including all appendixes with AIT. It's not that simple as it seems to be!!

Secondly, I was in the same situation as you. When my rejection letter arrived, my leave to remain had already expired. If for some reason your AIT appeal fails, u might have further options, but it's something I wouldn't really like to take the chance and risk it.

Get an immigration lawyer to file the appeal and represent u on the day of hearing.

If you need any further info, just pvt me. Happy to discuss with u.

[bmb9ks]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I have decided that it is a little bit too complex (or at least the outcome too important) to risk doing it myself, and have found a good immigration lawyer.

Hi Bmb,
Sorry to hear about your case.

I have been in exactly the same position as u, recently went to AIT for appeal and won the case. I have written out my experience through the whole process in the forum, just do a search.

As long as u are able to prove that your bank statements and payslips and letter from employer all collaborate, that should be ok.

I would strongly advise you to get legal representative(private) for a few reasons. The appeal process is not as simple as u think. U have to file the initial appeal within 10 days, then produce a personal statement to be used on your day of hearing. 5 days before your hearing, you have to file your papers including all appendixes with AIT. It's not that simple as it seems to be!!

Secondly, I was in the same situation as you. When my rejection letter arrived, my leave to remain had already expired. If for some reason your AIT appeal fails, u might have further options, but it's something I wouldn't really like to take the chance and risk it.

Get an immigration lawyer to file the appeal and represent u on the day of hearing.

If you need any further info, just pvt me. Happy to discuss with u.

[nangvil]

Whatever u do...do not leave the country until u know the outcome of the hearing at least....

[bmb9ks]

Good point... what about after the hearing? I still will not have anything in my passport until the Border Agency put a stamp in it. The problem is that I am meant to leave the country in the middle of May for about a month, and I am worried that this whole process is going to take longer.

[nangvil]

I think it would be unlikely u'll get the visa by May assuming your appeal is successful.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Have u been given 10 days to appeal to AIT?

Assuming u are given 10 days to appeal, your hearing date should be some point mid April. Judgement will be issued 2 weeks after that period and u'll hear from HO after that.

Don;t get me wrong, May is still possible, but I think unlikely.

[bmb9ks]

Yes, that's what I thought. I hope to get my appeal in by the end of the week, so I hope that speeds things up. I don't suppose anyone reading knows if anybody can issue any kind of temporary document that allows you to leave the country?

I think it would be unlikely u'll get the visa by May assuming your appeal is successful.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Have u been given 10 days to appeal to AIT?

Assuming u are given 10 days to appeal, your hearing date should be some point mid April. Judgement will be issued 2 weeks after that period and u'll hear from HO after that.

Don;t get me wrong, May is still possible, but I think unlikely.

[drjabberwocky23]

I don't know if this is possible either. Do you really need to leave the country in May or is it something you can postpone after your appeal is decided?

[nangvil]

There is no temporary document which could allow you to leave the country.

You can leave the country if u want, problem arises when u get back to the country, u won't be allowed to work on a tourist visa. If UKBA at airport discover ur purpose of visit is to work in this country but don't have a valid visa, they might deport u and require u to apply for entry clearance in your home country.

[drjabberwocky23]

[quote="nangvil"]There is no temporary document which could allow you to leave the country.

You can leave the country if u want, problem arises when u get back to the country, u won't be allowed to work on a tourist visa. If UKBA at airport discover ur purpose of visit is to work in this country but don't have a valid visa, they might deport u and require u to apply for entry clearance in your home country.[/quote]

Can they do this? Legally speaking, and appeal pending on a visa counts as leave to remain until the appeal is decided. That said, I would dare risk this sort of thing.

[bmb9ks]

Just as I thought really. I do not absolutely have to leave, but flights etc. already booked, and after paying £750 for visa, £1000 for lawyer, it makes me wonder if it is actually worth it. If i did not have a partner here, I think I would pack up and leave for good.

There is no temporary document which could allow you to leave the country.

You can leave the country if u want, problem arises when u get back to the country, u won't be allowed to work on a tourist visa. If UKBA at airport discover ur purpose of visit is to work in this country but don't have a valid visa, they might deport u and require u to apply for entry clearance in your home country.[/quote]

Can they do this? Legally speaking, and appeal pending on a visa counts as leave to remain until the appeal is decided. That said, I would dare risk this sort of thing.

[bmb9ks]

I've hired a lawyer and appealing, as I think anyone who is in the position to do so should. The UK Border Agency is trying to put people off by being overly restrictive on documents- not really whether people satisfy the requirements. Keep watch for changes in the immigration law- once section 19 comes into force, there will be no recourse to the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal.

If I was doing it again, I would pay the ~£100-200 for an hour of an immigration lawyers time to check over documents. The Immigration Advisory Service just was not fast enough for me, but it may be free if your salary is low enough (even though high enough to qualify on the PBS)- which may especially be the case for Tier 1 Post Study Workers.

Now to wait.

[gotcha]

Sorry to hear your case. And all the best !

The UK Border Agency is trying to put people off by being overly restrictive on documents- not really whether people satisfy the requirements.

I think you are over reactive here. Point based systems comes because subjective nature of earlier system. It wasn't clear how points were awarded at that time.

Now you only needs to prove what you are saying. And they take help of two matching documents to judge that.

How can it be UKBA's fault, or they know that you are eligible under existing rules, if you clearly haven't provided two pieces of evidences that matches each other ?

[bmb9ks]

I know it is within the rules, but I find it completely unacceptable for the UKBA to take one and a half months, £750, and refuse my application based on a technicality that they could have cleared up in a day by asking me for those documents. Or do they want everybody to have to pay another £750 to reapply assuming that their leave has not run out. That is what I take exception with.

I filled out my application in the mindset of what a reasonable person would expect and how a reasonable person would react. I also think that something like this (the application at least) should not require the assistance of an immigration lawyer (but as they obviously do, having been through this I will try to convince my employer to arrange such a checking service for future applicants).

[gotcha]

I find it completely unacceptable for the UKBA to take one and a half months, £750, and refuse my application based on a technicality that they could have cleared up in a day by asking me for those documents.

Now again, dont blame UKBA for this. Remember there are thousands of application they deal with. Simplest thing for them is to reject application, if insufficient/contradictory information is provided(which is case with you).
They have provided detailed guidance just to help themselve, deciding application.


Technical thing would be, if you forgot to fill some information in application form, in which case I seen example people calling applicants and request replacement page.


Your situation is really unfortunate, and all the best with your appeal.

[bmb9ks]

Thanks for your encouragement regarding my appeal. However, I do think the UKBA is to blame.

This is not only my personal opinion: see this post from the Immigration Advisory Service:

http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/PressOffice/di ... 427&Type=2

I can not find the link now, but I am sure I saw also saw an article that the UKBA makes a profit from visa applications. Maybe the UKBA should be using the money they charge to improve their services. Just a thought.

I suppose the situation has benefited me in a slightly ironic way- my lawyer is handling so many of these appeal cases that it is taking less time and the charge is lower.

Also, I wonder what the opinion of the Immigration Judges at the AIT is?

[drjabberwocky23]

If you don't have to leave the country, then I wouldn't risk taking a trip overseas during your appeal!!

[bmb9ks]

Thanks, my lawyer confirmed the same- though there is leave to remain while I appeal, I would almost certainly not be allowed back into the country if I left.