Italy

[frances2]

Hi

I'm a UK citizen - born and bred! married to a Jamaican, who is on FLR, as we've only been married a year.

We have the audacity to want to go on holiday! I know, how dare we!

Any way we're off to Italy, I emailed the conslulate in Manchester for an appointment and this is what they have sent me. I've highlighted the bits that have made my blood boil.....

Attention spouses and family of U.K. citizens may apply for a visa without an appointment on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday from 9.30 to 11.30. They are required to submit the following documents: application form, 2 photos, passports including that of U.K. member, travel/medical insurace or European Health Insurace Card, original marriage licence or original FULL birth certificate of child/family member (this must bear the visa applicant's name). All certificates must be originals and if issued outside the UK and are not in english they must be officially stamped and translated by the appropriate authority. Plese also supply flight and accomodation booking together with a current bank statement statement (to prove means of financial availability for the trip) and photocopies of all documentation including passports and UK visas.

We have a joint bank account. Why does the Italian authorities have the right to scrutinize my finacial affairs, especially when it says on the Schengen forn that this is not needed by spouses of UK citizens.

Do we submit our bank statements? Or do we do what the Schengen form says?

[86ti]

We have a joint bank account. Why does the Italian authorities have the right to scrutinize my finacial affairs, especially when it says on the Schengen forn that this is not needed by spouses of UK citizens.

They don't. Try to complain to SOLVIT if they continue insisting on these documents. You should not need confirmation/bookings of tickets and accomodation. You should not need to show travel or health insurance (though I would recommend both and getting the EHIC is easy and free of charge). The visa should also be free of charge.

[frances2]

Thanks 86ti.

I've sent an email to SOLVIT as you suggested.

I can provide all the documents they want but I don't see why I should!

(yes - we have travel insurance - all booked with Mastercard!)

I'll let you know how I get on.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

They have no right to request it and I would not give it to them.

You should get an EHIC in any case, one for each of you.

[frances2]

Hi

Just had a reply from SOLVIT.
They quoted a whole load of rules......
And then summarised that the Italians are perfectly within their rights to request my husbands (and hence mine) financial details and detailed travel arrangements. ( Oh they said we didn't need travel insurance - as it's not compulsory).

I can post the full reply if anyone is interested.

Has the world gone mad or what?

I'm not happy at all with supplying the Italian consulate with my bank statements.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Please do post the Solvit reply!

[ciaramc]

Know exactly how you feel.....I feel like SOLVIT hardly ever give a positive reply they tend to always agree with embassies!!! It is so annoying they aresupposed to help us protect our rights!

[charles4u]

See guys, I personally think the problem is from UK and they way UK is handling their own visas too from EU countries.

So far, I havent heard any kinda document being requested from embassies here in Romania except UK and Ireland.

I dont blame the EU embassies in UK giving conditions of getting visas from UK.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I dont blame the EU embassies in UK giving conditions of getting visas from UK.

Very interesting interpretation. So if the UK is doing something wrong, then you don't blame others for also doing the wrong thing in retaliation?

[frances2]

Hi

Thank you for the interest. Here's the correspondence between myself and SOLVIT. Sorry it's a bit long.

"
Enquiry posted on
11/06/2009

Enquiry
62801: Hi
I'm am a UK citizen (born here!), married to a Jamaican, he has FLR in the UK as we have been only married 1 year, therefore 1 year before he can apply for ILR .
We have booked a holiday to Italy. I have had an email form the consulate regards his appointment for a visa. This is what it said.
" Attention spouses and family of U.K. citizens may apply for a visa without an appointment on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday from 9.30 to 11.30. They are required to submit the following documents: application form, 2 photos, passports including that of U.K. member, travel/medical insurace or European Health Insurace Card, original marriage licence or original FULL birth certificate of child/family member (this must bear the visa applicant's name). All certificates must be originals and if issued outside the UK and are not in english they must be officially stamped and translated by the appropriate authority. Plese also supply flight and accomodation booking together with a current bank statement statement (to prove means of financial availability for the trip) and photocopies of all documentation including passports and UK visas."

I have issue with the need for evidence of travel insurance, travel details, bank statements. According to the Schengen visa form these are not necessary for the spouse of a UK citizen. We have a joint bank account and object to the Italian authoriites having the right to scrutinize my finacial affairs.

Although this may not seem like a big deal, but it seems to me that each country can make up it's own rules for issuing a schengen visa.

Please could you advice.

Yours sincerley

name romoved


Reply
Dear Ms name removed,

Thank you for your enquiry.

As a Jamaican national living in the UK, your husband requires a Schengen visa to enter Italy from the UK.

According to the Schengen Convention, your husband must fulfil the following conditions to be allowed to enter the Schengen area:

“Article 5
1. For visits not exceeding three months, aliens fulfilling the following conditions may be granted entry into the territories of the Contracting Parties:
(a) the possession of a valid document or documents, as defined by the Executive Committee, authorising them to cross the border;
(b) the possession of a valid visa if required;
(c) if applicable, the aliens shall produce documents substantiating the purpose and the conditions of the planned visit and shall have adequate means of support, both for the period of the planned visit and the return to their country of origin or transit to a non-member country, where their admission is guaranteed, or shall be in a position to acquire such means legally;
(d) the aliens shall not be persons for whom an alert has been issued for the purposes of refusing entry;
(e) the aliens shall not be considered to be a threat to public policy, national security or the international relations of any of the Contracting Parties.â€

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Solvit or Citizens signpost?

[frances2]

Solvit or Citizens signpost?

I googled SOLVIT. There web site came up, and I went to the link to submit a case. This is what I got back. I've just repeated the process to check I'd not gone mad. It's definately SOLVIT website I went through.

Have I got it wrong??

[charles4u]

I dont blame the EU embassies in UK giving conditions of getting visas from UK.

Very interesting interpretation. So if the UK is doing something wrong, then you don't blame others for also doing the wrong thing in retaliation?

See I wish things can be better but you can see the way Europe is general, everything seems to be politics and power.

Why is UK 50% in EU and 50% outside EU, why cant they drop the EEA Family permit instead of requesting visas for family member or are they better than Germany or France or even Scandinavia ?

Let face the truth...its normal for others to act like that if UK is trying to show they are strong-headed.

Mind you the wrong thing the others are doing as you said...is not affecting other EU countries..or is it ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Solvit or Citizens signpost?

I googled SOLVIT. There web site came up, and I went to the link to submit a case. This is what I got back. I've just repeated the process to check I'd not gone mad. It's definately SOLVIT website I went through.

:oops: Have I got it wrong??

Its just that the last email you posted with from Citizens Signpost Service

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

why cant they drop the EEA Family permit instead of requesting visas for family member or are they better than Germany or France or even Scandinavia ?

All EU countries are allowed to require visas of some people who do not already have a Residence Card. The UK and Ireland are allowed to choose which countries that is valid from.

The UK have also taken advantage of (intentionally?) ambiguous language of the Directive to say that a Residence Card means a Residence Card issued by the UK. What they have done is not clearly illegal. It is frustrating, but I would not necessarily expect more sincerity from the Home Office.

[charles4u]

why cant they drop the EEA Family permit instead of requesting visas for family member or are they better than Germany or France or even Scandinavia ?

All EU countries are allowed to require visas of some people who do not already have a Residence Card. The UK and Ireland are allowed to choose which countries that is valid from.

The UK have also taken advantage of (intentionally?) ambiguous language of the Directive to say that a Residence Card means a Residence Card issued by the UK. What they have done is not clearly illegal. It is frustrating, but I would not necessarily expect more sincerity from the Home Office.

The UK and Ireland are requiring visas from both holders of residence permit and non-holders.

Other EU countries require visas from those that dont have a residence permit as a family member.

As you said, since the UK have a smarter way of interpretation then let them continue since you also said its not illegal. I guess other EU countries has nothing to loose.

[frances2]

Solvit or Citizens signpost?

I googled SOLVIT. There web site came up, and I went to the link to submit a case. This is what I got back. I've just repeated the process to check I'd not gone mad. It's definately SOLVIT website I went through.

Have I got it wrong??

Its just that the last email you posted with from Citizens Signpost Service

Well, that's who replied. Are CSS a different organisation? Should I asl why they replied? Maybe Solvit and this group are one and the same?
Anyway, he's going tomorrow, so I've photocopied all our bank statements etc. Very annoying!

(BTW.... If everyone wants to have an argument UK vs rest of Europe....
But start a new thread.)

[charles4u]

(BTW.... If everyone wants to have an argument UK vs rest of Europe....
But start a new thread.)

I guess no one does, its just so unfortunate that someone will come here again tomorrow having the same UK complain all over again.

[frances2]

(BTW.... If everyone wants to have an argument UK vs rest of Europe....
But start a new thread.)

I guess no one does, its just so unfortunate that someone will come here again tomorrow having the same UK complain all over again.

I was being sarcastic about starting a new thread!
Unfortunate... Yes.... But I play by the rules and if "the rules" say I don't need to produce bank statements etc I was hoping to get some guidance what to do... Which I did...
But as for complaining.... What is the function of this forum other than complaining about immigration issues... and ofcourse helping others.
So if your bored with people complaining.... Why look.

[86ti]

The answer is indeed from CSS. SOLVIT's webpage is here http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/ but I suppose that's the one you used. Strange.

What they cited to you is from the Common Consular Instructions (CCI), the "Schengen rules". I still think though that you should be covered by Articles 5 and 6 of the Directive provided that you are travelling together. The question is also why there are starred fields on the Schengen application form (harmonized among all Schengen countries) and why the visa should be free of charge to you. As far as I am aware of this does not derive from the CCI. So CSS would need to explain the legal basis for that (and should eventually arrive at the Directive).

[frances2]

Thanks 86ti for your reply, but I'm not sure I exactly understand.

My husband went to the consulate today. All documents present and correct. Insurance is provided by Mastercard as that's who we use to pay with for the holiday. However they would not accept this and they sent my husband off to the post office to buy travel insurance.

I am livid. How ridiculous! If I'd have been with him there's no way I'd have allowed that to happen. But when you're a foreigner applying for a visa I think they find it hard to get arsy with the visa issuing authority. I think this is a blatant exploitation of people to make life difficult.

But it would seem that each embassy can do as they please. I'm sure I will have calmed down by the time we go! God help them at Italian border contol if they start acting stupid with us!!!!

[po-low]

Hi there, did your husband have to pay for the visa or admin fee?
Did they ask for payment?
If so, what was the fee if you dont mind me asking.

many thanks.