save life of 2 lover

[needhelp]

hello every one here. today i am here presnting my friend problem. i need you guys help please. my friend love 1 girl nd both family is not ready for there marrage there fore they got married in court but still they are hidding ther marrage bcouse it could be dangoure for both lives. now the thng is tht when they get married few days after she got canda immgration becouse her father applied for immgration. so now whole family got canda visa, now she get chance to disclose her marrage ther in canada and bring her husband to canda as well. but they dnt know how it gonna be happen, so they ask me for help them, and i my self dnt know tht wut way they gonna apply. let me know wuts best way to get visa for her spouse in this satution.in my mind there few things.
1. that her husband apply for spouse visa from home country before she left this country.(she is goin to fly in july)
2. secondly she apply for asylum for him or for her self wen once reashed there.
3. or he need to wait once she reached ther and then he apply from here for spouse visa.

please help them to start there new life in safe and peace.
i just write down in short here , if you guys need some more information relating this matter , so please ask me. but please please do reply.
thank you all of you
looking forword

[needhelp]

hi again guys..

please do reply to solve this problem, she gonna leve next month for canda.

[Kayalami]

1. Dependents of the principal applicant are:

(a) spouse

(b) common in law partner

(c) children under 22 who must be single

(d) children over 22 dependent on the principal applicant as evidenced by being in full time education since age 22. Again they must be single.

2. The married child is no longer classed as a dependent and must be removed from the application. The COPR visas issued are no longer valid and must be returned to the visa post for re-issuance. If they are near to the expiry date then it may be that some of the processing recommences including but not limited to medical and security checks with the possibility of new fees/ application if the original COPR expires prior to the post re-issuing.

3. Landing under the said circumstances constitutes fraud under the Immigration Act - you will be deported from Canada. Likewise since such landing is not recgonised you may not sponsor any person including a spouse.

4. A claim for asylum must be on the basis of the 5 grounds in the Geneva convention - depending on the said danger such may or may not apply. In any case landing under proposed situation impacts on credibility which is the basic ingredient of any immigration application but more so asylum.

Sorry. A ceremony of a few minutes has jeopardised everything for the entire family - what was the big rush??

[needhelp]

hi

thank you very much friend for repling.actully problem was tht my friend,s wife was engaged by force with in family and her was not happy to give her to my freind . there was no other way, accept tht they got married in court.before tht her father nd other family person tryied to married her by forced but tht was my friend good luck tht she resist and sucsseded in.

now its very hard tht they disclose ther marriage here in home country.it could be very dangouse for ther lives and thts why its hard to live togather here in home country.only option they tht they move to sum safe country and at moment girl have visa but guy dnt have so they think tht it wud b better tht husbind can get visa for canada.

please let me know how and where they start . i am very thank ful my friend for considering my request. looking forword

[John]

well sooner or later the family will find out or will need to be told about the marriage! And given the visa situation that really needs to be in the very near future.

If they genuinely fear for their lives then they should involve the local police, when telling the family?

[needhelp]

dear friend

WILL I THINK I KNOW BETTER THEN ANY ONE ELSE ABOUT MY COUNTRY SATUTION , MY CULTURE AND POLICE AS WELL.I KNOW THAT ITS REALLY HARD FOR THEM TO LIVE TOGATHER.SHE IS ALLREADY ENGAGED BECOUSE OF ARRANGED MARRAGED DONE BY HER FATHER, BUT ITS THEIR GOODLUCK THAT TILL NOW ITS JUST ENGAGMENT ONLY.

I AM STILL HOPE FUL THT THERE WILL SUM ONE HERE ON THIS SITE THAT HELP THEM.

[Kayalami]

It would be useful if you did not use caps - it comes across as shouting.

1. How does her marriage to the second person (legal and recognised as per your original post) change anything/assist her from the arranged one that as I understand has not taken place nor can now take place since she is now legally married?

2. Irrespective of the circumstances she is not eligible to land in Canada as things stand. The visa office must be informed of a material change for any person in the application - top of the list is marital status and any birth/ death. How does she intend to overcome this?

3. What is the country in question?

[needhelp]

sorry for using caps, but i was shouting.

i know its illagle to marry twise but wut i am saying is that they get married becouse they were scared tht may be some day her father and family use force to marry her with her cousin.secondly she married with my friend only and other arranged marrage didnt took placed yet but she is just engaged with him, i mean only engagment happen, and tht was by forced. in the middle of function she run away from there.

[Kayalami]

Ok we understand the issues around the marriage so lets put that to 1 side. Are you able to respond to my other questions? What does she expect the Canadian government to do?

[needhelp]

*country pakistan
*secondly i wish tht they get safe to live togather now it could be canda other any other place on earth. the question is why we think about canad becouse we were thinkin tht she already have visa and it would be easy to get for her husband, i mean for my friend, but its seem very diff after all this i got here.
i really dnt know immgrration matters but i just waana tht they get place to live togather now how it gonna happen tht i dnt kno. thts why i am here tht u guys let me kno tht wut will b best possable solution. i will b very glad to get som postive answer.

[Kayalami]

1. Common occurence in sub-continent where applicants and/or dependents thereof marry post visa issuance but pre-landing in Canada - this invalidates all visas.

2. Can they re-locate to another region of Pakistan. This is refered to as internal flight in asylum legislation. I am not aware of the current success rate or otherwise of an asylum application in Canada under said circumstances without reviewing extensive caselaw legislation but I suspect not high. This is assuming she enters Canada in the 1st place which as things stand is not possible from a legal perspective anyway unless she intends to proceed with a fraudelent entry with subsequent impact as I pointed out.

Sorry I am unable to add anything to this.

[needhelp]

Thank you very much Kayalami for repling. hope i will get some way to solve their problims.

[Quantum]

What Kayalami has said several times is that because she is now married, she is no longer eligible to emigrate with her parents. It's just the law. She can't move with them, and most certainly her husband can't. It is not 'immigration by association'.

If she quickly gets a divorce, she may again be eligible, although may then be subject to the arranged marriage.

So she has two choices:
- Get a divorce;
- Stay in Paki.

It sounds like she has no special skills nor employment, and so may be ineligible to get out of Paki under any circumstances. I think asylum is no longer considered from Paki.

[needhelp]

your both option is not valid, nor divorse and nor in pakistan(its not paki).
first thing is that she dnt married in candain embassy, she got married in court, so no reason to drop her from canada.secondly he married her not for candain visa, but they love each other and they got married becouse to secure marrige and keep their lives in danger.

i post this prb here in this forum to get some help not for negative approch or for critisisum. so please if u guys cant help me thn no reason to critisize.
just let me know if some have positive approch, that if she move to canada then after how long it would be posible to be togather in canada legally.just forget about their marrage for a wile.

[John]

Needhelp ..... as I see this ... you ask some questions .... you get some good answers ... but because you don't like those answers ... well it appears to me all you want to do is ignore the advice you have been given.

I think this couple needs to face up to the consequences of their actions. That is, the action was ..... they got married .... one consequence is that her Canadian visa is no longer valid. Her family need to know about the marriage sooner or later. Sooner would seem to be the better idea.

[needhelp]

thanks all of you and for yours advises as well. yes i doesnt like this becouse its not help full. i fell that here this couple is like criminal. they love each other is it wrong or they married each other this is wrong?i am telling you guys that their lives are in danger. when ever thier family knows that they got married that day will be thier last if they will near by them.its matter of life not divorse or cosecunices, ther i dnt like u guys advises.
she is studing here and my friend have thier own business, so if their family get agree then no problims at all. but her family allready reajected him on any condition.do they have any other way?

[John]

i fell that here this couple is like criminal.

Well not yet .... but if the Canadian visa is used ... yes ... criminal!

Why did they marry if doing so would place them in so much danger? Did they think that danger would just go away? If so, when?

Surely their situation is not totally unique ... aren't there people who help such couples? In another part of the country?

[needhelp]

well not yet then please dnt treat them like criminals now.if they didnt marry each other then may be in future they thought that why they dnt marry before she married by forced with her cousin.will yes they can move to any other part of country and at the moment my friend is changing his place frequntly.but the thng is that how long they will do this and once they dnt have any other option then offcourse they will move to other place.but still risk, they will chase all over the country.
yes ther is alot of NGO to help them, even they will pull them from this satution and let them settle in any other country, but for that they will do what NGO's ppl wanna, and they want to use such kindda case against govt.durning this they will be on medai trial for couple of months.this media trail will on print and tele as well.in this way they will get out of this satution and country as well but it would be very danger for thier families and they dnt want to put in danger any 1.

[John]

please dnt treat them like criminals now

Please explain in what sense am I doing that?

.... they will chase all over the country

And when they married, they didn't realise that would be the case?

The fact is that they have married ... which appears to be their own choice ... and now they must live with the consequences of their voluntary action. That includes her not attempting to get into Canada using her visa, because that visa has effectively become void.

[Quantum]

I'm sorry, Needhelp, if what I said sounded like criticism. This was not the intent. I thought I was just stating hard facts and trying to bring you around.

I think we have a cultural difference here. You feel that love should trump all, and that the law should respect that. But Western law is not negotiable. You have to consider it a mathematical construct; a concrete edifice. In other words, your friends must bend to the laws which Canadians have chosen, or else choose another country. It is a hard reality, but this is the way things truly are. I myself, as an American of Swedish descent, may not be eligible to get PR in Canada, no matter how much I try. You do not know how lucky her parents are; not many countries welcome Muslims these days, as your clerics do not speak out against terrorism as they should. I'm just sayin' facts.

Further you must understand that if she emigrates to Canada, and it is found by authorities that her parents knew of her marriage, they will ALL be jailed and deported back to Pakistan, period. They may all be deported even if her parents did *not* know about the marriage, because they should have known. Don't you think her parents would kill both of them, then? It is a serious violation of Canadian immigration law for her to move there married.

OK, if I'm understanding you, it is not possible for her to divorce in Pakistan. Since we do not know your country and its customs well, the only option we can offer is that she and her husband must apply to Canada on their own merit, or they must stay.

She understandably has chosen love. And she understandably wanted to make her own choice of husband. And she probably wasn't aware of the terrible ramifications. What really happened here is that your ancient cultural practices and beliefs have forced them into this situation. If she had waited to get married, she could have potentially sponsored her desired husband to Canada in a couple of years, but her hand was forced by this arranged marriage.

Really, we are doing the best we can to help. But advanced Western governments are simply operated on a mathematical basis. (except the USA these days, with the Bush administration)

I hope someone here can offer better advice than I've been able to. I may be completely wrong.

[needhelp]

Quantum thank you very much for yours reply.its okey.. Quantum i spend few years in western world, so got chance to know about other cultures as well.i really respect ur views in ur last reply.you are right that these days are really hard for muslims who stay there or wanna move there.
there is nothing important then law. i am not saying that law should respect love, actully what i was saying that if is ther any way to solve ther problim. but i dnt think so now.
wish you good luck