No Visa Stamp for UK Exits - How to calculate the absences?

[Seda]

Hi,

I have a question regarding the UK entry/exit stamps.

On my passport, I have date stamps for each UK entry but there is no stamp for any UK exit. While entering to Turkey, women have right to ask the border officer not to put any entry stamp on the passport. (As they already log the passport numbers and entry/exit dates into the computer system and passport stamps are mandatory only for men for militarty service purposes).

I have used this right and therefore I don't have any Turkey entry stamps for some of my trips. I don't have exist stamps for those trips either. So, the only evidence of my UK absence is the UK Entry stamp.

Now, as part of ILR application, I need to list my absences and I am wondering whether I could give any date as UK exit date (let's say just 2 days before the UK entry stamp). I am not registered with the IRIS system.

Do you think that they can trace my UK absences (basically UK exists) by another method apart from checking my passport stamps?

I would appreciate any feedback as my total real absences are exceeding 180 days for 4 years. But even I cannot tell now which days I have been away as I don't have the full set of stamps for outbound and inbound journeys on my passport. I need to check my e-ticket dates from my emails, etc...But, again, would they be able to check this via another system/method?

Many thanks,
Seda

[fysicus]

So you are asking us (in short): how to provide false information and get away with it?
I would strongly advise against this. Better spend some time to retrieve all your tickets and get the true dates of travel.
Please be aware that any document can be revoked with immediate effect if it is found later that the applicant provided wrong data and you will become liable to prosecution for deception or fraud.

[BACK_TO_GB]

Moderators: Here we go another example - and she is frankly telling us that she used "her right" not to get the stamps in the airport... that is usually called "planned" crime - Seda you knew you were eventually going for ILR so you should have been keen to get the period right and sure get the stamps on your passport...

Kick Seda out of this forum I say - and that is my opinion.

[hsmp_1476]

Because ppl abuse the system like, they get tougher and tougher affecting the genuine applicants. I think there should be some way of linking this forum to HO and using whatever said here as evidense.

Seda, atlease realise the imact of these frauds on other applicants. How do you feel if your application is affected because someone else thought of cheating the system??

[Seda]

I am just knowing the gaps of the system and using them for my own benefit. Why is it my fault if the Border Agency is not stamping the passports while leaving the country, and therefore, leaving gaps in the system?

Using the system gaps does not mean fraud. I am not submitting fake passport, fake visa, fake P60, fake bank statement, fake mortgage statement, lake land registery, fake police certification, etc.

I am paying £550 income tax, £300 NI contribution every month to this country since 2001 and I still cannot benefit even from child tax credit. (I switched bewteen different visas and ILR clock has been reset)

And all of my holidays were paid annual leaves. I think the rules are already too harsh and we are doing very much compromises. Simply, 180 days was not enough for me visit my family & friends outside the UK in the last 4 years time. How easy can you accept the situation that an authority is restricting your freedom/travel rights while setting every rule against you at the same time?

Nobody can blame me with fraud just because I used system gaps to spend more time with my family, relatives and friends. This is completely an innocent intention.

[push]

I dont think thats fraud at all. Not sure why everyone is crying foul. The member is simply asking for a solution to a problem which is "she does not remember her dates of legitimate travels outside UK" ... could happen to anyone I think

[BACK_TO_GB]

Seda - do you have a digital camera? the type where you can set the date and it comes out on the photos...? I guess someone with an income and someone as intellectual as you do... why dont you chech the dates on your camera when you went to visit your family and friends and that will give you a pretty good idea of the dates....

btw - using gaps in the system is another word for the defintion of fraud - the system in this country leaves what you call gaps so that it is filled with something called TRUST - may be a forien concept to some people....

[gotcha]

I dont think thats fraud at all. Not sure why everyone is crying foul. The member is simply asking for a solution to a problem which is "she does not remember her dates of legitimate travels outside UK" ... could happen to anyone I think

Have a look at what she said in her previous post.

I am just knowing the gaps of the system and using them for my own benefit. Why is it my fault if the Border Agency is not stamping the passports while leaving the country, and therefore, leaving gaps in the system?

In other words she is exploiting loophole in system, and is fraud to manipulate dates.

[tvn_ramesh]

I agree with Push hsmp..

i also think that we should not waste our energies for things that are not useful.. i am not supporting or attacking the author here..

i am saying she has a query and she posted it here, read it and ignore if u dont like..

there are many other IMP / urgent queries in the board waiting for replies..

NOTE: No offence/defence to anybody please..

[hsmp_1476]

I dont agree with Push here. Her original query was asking if one can provide false dates for the travel and get away with it, with out being noticed by HO. You may want to call it loopholes (which it is not) in the system, but it is still a fraud. I can argue that I will deliberately loose my passport and get a new one so that my travel history is gone and then I will lie about the dates in ILR application. Is this is a loophole again?

@Seda, you should have known the requirements of ILR when you moved to this country. If it was not acceptable, then this is not the place for you. There are other legal (oftern time consuming) ways of fighting with the system.

I think this forum should not encourage such threads.

[BACK_TO_GB]

totally agree with hsmp_147

just allowing these kind of threads is a kind of acknowledjment that they are acceptable and that it is acceptable to be debated.... will it still be ok if seda gets a reply on this thread saying that a stolen stamp from the airport or something fraudant can be used to solve her problem and assist in this crime?!


and once again I say Kick Seda and Droopreety out of this forum....

[GoodHuman]

hi Folks,

So far, I had been a guest to this forum ... Finally decided to become a member ... to jot down my openion ... i was in 'to be or not to be' dilemma ...

Just wanted to check with you guys ... whether you have read the posts / threads of someone called 'coolsats' in this forum ?... I am pretty sure that you all must have ...
bcoz, you are all members since 2007 and 'seniors / members of standing', etc ... and you have been constantly contributing to this forum ...

Having mentioned this, I was just wondering ... nobody had the courage / guts to raise their voice / openion against this guy !!?? ...

He himslef mentioned about his job cheating in B'lore ... working for two employers at the same time !! and having thrown out of the job once it was came into light ...
and worst part of him was to 'bring in mothers / sisters' into the forum ... with the lowest abusive language possible ... which anyone could ever expect from a so called highly educated / IT professional !!

and he is from the country where the mothers/sisters are treated with utmost respect than any other palce in this world !!

he was the one who tried to 'compare' all the degrees / professions / salaries ... and start a personal fight ... at least this forum was not meant for all his 'such' threads ... right ??!

And the strangest part was that the forum was happy provide all the info/details to his queries when he was trying get his initial 'tier-1 general' visa !! ...

Did anyone of you raise your voice against him !!?? ... why ... Did anyone forced the Admin to ban this guy from the forum ?? !! ... as you people are doing against 'Seda' ...
May i know why ??!! ...

I am also ashamed and apologize for not having raised my voice against this guy ... But, at least ... I am impartial !! ...

Last but not the least ...

Seda has used her right ... " While entering to Turkey, women have right to ask the border officer not to put any entry stamp on the passport "
which is a system in place.
So, she has used it and cannot be called as a fraud ...

I guess, given a chance, anybody would opt for availing this type of choice ...

[Vanadil]

I was shoping in Boots the other day and the cashier left the till open as a jar fell off a shelf behind her. She turned around to help her colleage clear up the mess and I took all the money and left.

It's not my fault she left the till open with the money in it. I don't view this as a crime.

[BACK_TO_GB]

Seda - I am interested in what you think about Vanadil comments - do you see what you did practicing your rights in Turkey, comparable and in the same ethics category, with stealing money from a till in Boots?

[hsmp_1476]

I was shoping in Boots the other day and the cashier left the till open as a jar fell off a shelf behind her. She turned around to help her colleage clear up the mess and I took all the money and left.

It's not my fault she left the till open with the money in it. I don't view this as a crime.

That is still stealing and it is a crime.

[Vanadil]

I was shoping in Boots the other day and the cashier left the till open as a jar fell off a shelf behind her. She turned around to help her colleage clear up the mess and I took all the money and left.

It's not my fault she left the till open with the money in it. I don't view this as a crime.

That is still stealing and it is a crime.

I agree completely!

I feel sometimes my odd mind is too much for this forum Wanderer understands me sometimes... I'm trying to understand him but so far all I've figured out is that he's a lot older than me and likes rubbish TV.... Sorry I digress.

[ChetanOjha]

Hi,

I have a question regarding the UK entry/exit stamps.

On my passport, I have date stamps for each UK entry but there is no stamp for any UK exit. While entering to Turkey, women have right to ask the border officer not to put any entry stamp on the passport. (As they already log the passport numbers and entry/exit dates into the computer system and passport stamps are mandatory only for men for militarty service purposes).

I have used this right and therefore I don't have any Turkey entry stamps for some of my trips. I don't have exist stamps for those trips either. So, the only evidence of my UK absence is the UK Entry stamp.

Now, as part of ILR application, I need to list my absences and I am wondering whether I could give any date as UK exit date (let's say just 2 days before the UK entry stamp). I am not registered with the IRIS system.

Do you think that they can trace my UK absences (basically UK exists) by another method apart from checking my passport stamps?

I would appreciate any feedback as my total real absences are exceeding 180 days for 4 years. But even I cannot tell now which days I have been away as I don't have the full set of stamps for outbound and inbound journeys on my passport. I need to check my e-ticket dates from my emails, etc...But, again, would they be able to check this via another system/method?

Many thanks,
Seda

Get SAR report from Home Office asking them to provide details of you leaving and entrying(landing cards) country.

[abinanthanb]

Well, I dont care what is the OP's intention. But the question is a valid one to get clarified. What is the best way to get the details of my Entries/Exits to UK in the past if I have lost the records?

[push]

Not sure what you guys are getting fussed up about. The member says:
(1) She does not have records of her exists because UKBA does not stamp Passport while leaving the country; and
(2) Under a legitimate right under Turkish immigration control regime she chose not to get her passport stamped

She is now faced with the problem of figuring out what the dates of her exits were and is wondering if she could use a random date before the UK entry dates.

I find the above query genuine. If the member is intending to cheat, no one on this forum would provide advice on how to cheat but how can you guys be judgemental? If you think the query is genuine , provide an answer, otherwise move on.

If you talk about ethics... how many of you have sought advice re seeking pre-mature extension of VISAs using a hole in the current Tier-1 guidance? and how many of you have used the same funds for dependants as were used for the main applicants ( i have seen a number of such posts and ppl have generously provided advices) - again a gap in the guidance.

My suggestion - whether or not you find merit in it- is excercise caution before branding someone as fraud/thief etc.

[rizwan567]

I think under freedom of information act, one has the right to know how UKBA assess the entry and exit dates of the applicant.

Just like under the freedom of information act, UKBA has published the internal caseworker guidance for many visa categories like student, hsmp, settlement etc.

I hope this clarifies the whole situation.

[meats]

Well, I dont care what is the OP's intention. But the question is a valid one to get clarified. What is the best way to get the details of my Entries/Exits to UK in the past if I have lost the records?

You don't use e-tickets? I'm also sure that the airlines will be happy to clarify things should you provide them with enough information.

[meats]

I was shoping in Boots the other day and the cashier left the till open as a jar fell off a shelf behind her. She turned around to help her colleage clear up the mess and I took all the money and left.

It's not my fault she left the till open with the money in it. I don't view this as a crime.

That is still stealing and it is a crime.

I agree completely!

I feel sometimes my odd mind is too much for this forum Wanderer understands me sometimes... I'm trying to understand him but so far all I've figured out is that he's a lot older than me and likes rubbish TV.... Sorry I digress.

You evil evil person Vanadil

[justice_will_reign]

Guys, let's call a spade a spade rather than calling it agricutural equipment. Some of the rules/laws today is chaging because of this kind of abuse. It may not affect you today before you're in the system but it may come back to hunt your sibling or someone close to you tomorrow when HO get tough on such acts like this because some people are abusing it.

I don't believe "Highly Skilled" people as we claim will not be able to remember basic information around entry and exit dates within the last 4/5 years. As for me, I don't encourage people messing up the system or taking advantage of it simply because there is a gap so to say. If you escape with it today, you're closing the door for someone else in the future so just do the right thing and make the future simpler for someone.

[hsmp_1476]

Not sure what you guys are getting fussed up about. The member says:
(1) She does not have records of her exists because UKBA does not stamp Passport while leaving the country; and
(2) Under a legitimate right under Turkish immigration control regime she chose not to get her passport stamped

She is now faced with the problem of figuring out what the dates of her exits were and is wondering if she could use a random date before the UK entry dates.

I find the above query genuine. If the member is intending to cheat, no one on this forum would provide advice on how to cheat but how can you guys be judgemental? If you think the query is genuine , provide an answer, otherwise move on.

If you talk about ethics... how many of you have sought advice re seeking pre-mature extension of VISAs using a hole in the current Tier-1 guidance? and how many of you have used the same funds for dependants as were used for the main applicants ( i have seen a number of such posts and ppl have generously provided advices) - again a gap in the guidance.

My suggestion - whether or not you find merit in it- is excercise caution before branding someone as fraud/thief etc.

The OP knows that she is outside UK for more than 180 days and she wants to use the fact that there are no exit stamps on her passport and is asking the forum if she can provide incorrect dates so that she meets the ILR criteria. Isnt it a clear case of abusing the system?? Yes, there are loopholes in the system, but it doesnt mean that we misuse it.

As justice_will_reign ahs said, OP might get away with it, but it will definately have an impact to the rules of ILR when HO gets to know about such things.

[push]

Not sure what you guys are getting fussed up about. The member says:
(1) She does not have records of her exists because UKBA does not stamp Passport while leaving the country; and
(2) Under a legitimate right under Turkish immigration control regime she chose not to get her passport stamped

She is now faced with the problem of figuring out what the dates of her exits were and is wondering if she could use a random date before the UK entry dates.

I find the above query genuine. If the member is intending to cheat, no one on this forum would provide advice on how to cheat but how can you guys be judgemental? If you think the query is genuine , provide an answer, otherwise move on.

If you talk about ethics... how many of you have sought advice re seeking pre-mature extension of VISAs using a hole in the current Tier-1 guidance? and how many of you have used the same funds for dependants as were used for the main applicants ( i have seen a number of such posts and ppl have generously provided advices) - again a gap in the guidance.

My suggestion - whether or not you find merit in it- is excercise caution before branding someone as fraud/thief etc.

The OP knows that she is outside UK for more than 180 days and she wants to use the fact that there are no exit stamps on her passport and is asking the forum if she can provide incorrect dates so that she meets the ILR criteria. Isnt it a clear case of abusing the system?? Yes, there are loopholes in the system, but it doesnt mean that we misuse it.

As justice_will_reign ahs said, OP might get away with it, but it will definately have an impact to the rules of ILR when HO gets to know about such things.

Well if the sole objective here is to cheat the system then its very clear we are not providing any advice here - provided we are sure that there is an ulterior motive. To use a simili-I thought she was looking more for Tax planning (we should be happy to advice her) and not for Tax avoidance (a strict no-no for this forum). I am absolutely against helping those who intend to cheat the system but we need to think twice before we label someone as doing so. I guess its time now for the OP to clarify rather than for us to draw conclusions.