EU national taking non-EU spouse to another EU country

[yustynne]

Hello folks I need your help and experience!
I'm a Lithuanian citizen and my husband is a Moroccan citizen. I want to go to work to another EU country as I could take my husband. Could you please advice me which EU country has the easiest immigration laws? I'm thinking recently about Ireland, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, France or Sweden. It would be very helpful if you could share your experience with me. Please shortly type here your stories of how you took or still are trying to take your non-EU spouse to another EU country. Tell me what difficulties you faced or still are facing. Thank you!

[meats]

A search would give you the answers you need.

[yustynne]

A search would give you the answers you need.

I'm already searching a lot on the Internet but usually what is written on the official immigration sites of each country is completely different to what people face in reality. For that I'm asking people to share their experience and whether they had any difficulties or no.

[meats]

A search would give you the answers you need.

I'm already searching a lot on the Internet but usually what is written on the official immigration sites of each country is completely different to what people face in reality. For that I'm asking people to share their experience and whether they had any difficulties or no.

There is a search engine on this forum, that is the search that i meant.

[86ti]

I would also recommend to read through this and similar immigation boards. The question has just too many open parameters.

[yustynne]

The fact is that I don't see here so many people who would be in a similar situation with me. Usually people are trying to take their non-EU spouses to their own country of origin. For that I'm searching here somebody who would be EU national living in another EU country and taking his/her non-EU spouse there. Hey people, I really need to hear from somebody who's already in the same situation!

[Rozen]

The fact is, you are looking for a simple answer, and there isn't one! Why? Because you don't have a particular country in mind! This is why it has been suggested that you take time to trawl through various threads to see what different people have written about different countries. 'Difficulties', or the lack of them, will depend on your individual circumstances.

[yustynne]

The fact is, you are looking for a simple answer, and there isn't one! Why? Because you don't have a particular country in mind! This is why it has been suggested that you take time to trawl through various threads to see what different people have written about different countries. 'Difficulties', or the lack of them, will depend on your individual circumstances.

Hi Rozen, I see you are from Holland so you could advice me sth about the system in your country. Do you know how much time I need to work in Holland as I could take my husband? Do you know if Dutch require to show RH when applying for a visa? Or do they check if marriage is not faked after my husband's arrival inside Holland for a period of time? I have also heard that Dutch require to take Dutch language courses. Does my husband have to show he speaks Dutch exactly when applying for a visa or later inside Holland after a period of time? Do you know how much income I have to show and whether they check each of us bank accounts?

[86ti]

Read about Directive 2004/38/EC. Supposed to apply to all EEA countries (more or less...)

[yustynne]

Read about Directive 2004/38/EC. Supposed to apply to all EEA countries (more or less...)

Hi, I've already read that Directive. Nothing is clearly written and I need clear facts and figures. To read all these documents is useless because each country understands each law different and makes it as it would be useful for them not for people. If you guys can help me so help me. I would be thankful.

[flyboy]

The fact is, you are looking for a simple answer, and there isn't one! Why? Because you don't have a particular country in mind! This is why it has been suggested that you take time to trawl through various threads to see what different people have written about different countries. 'Difficulties', or the lack of them, will depend on your individual circumstances.

Hi Rozen, I see you are from Holland so you could advice me sth about the system in your country. Do you know how much time I need to work in Holland as I could take my husband? Do you know if Dutch require to show RH when applying for a visa? Or do they check if marriage is not faked after my husband's arrival inside Holland for a period of time? I have also heard that Dutch require to take Dutch language courses. Does my husband have to show he speaks Dutch exactly when applying for a visa or later inside Holland after a period of time? Do you know how much income I have to show and whether they check each of us bank accounts?

A good place to start for procedures in Holland is at the following link:

http://www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/

3rd country Family members of EU / EEA / Swiss citizens are exempted from the dutch laguage requirement. Financial requirements are listed on the linked provided. Just have a good read through it.

For Sweden the following link is worth reading through; click on EU/EEA citizens on the left :

http://www.migrationsverket.se/english.html

The financial requirement which was quoted to my swiss partner from the swedish migration board to be economically self sufficient was SEK 100 000 per year. ( approx. 9800 euros p.a) and health insurance.

For France if you or your husband understand french have a look at the following link:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 2017.xhtml

For Denmark the following link explains everything:

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_t ... tizens.htm


Hope that helps

[yustynne]

Thank you Flyboy for providing with information websites. I have read about Holland immigration. As i understood everybody who applies for MVV on the grounds of reuniting or forming family must pass Dutch language examination because this examination is one of the basis of getting MVV. However, non-EU family members of EU nationals can apply for a short stay visa instead of MVV. Short stay visa doesn't require to take the examination but i'm not sure if my husband can apply for a residence document inside Holland if he would hold only short stay visa. Moreover, the requirements for short stay visa differ and they are quite tough because my husband would have to show he has sufficient money to stay in Holland and to return. It's really very bad! It's better to apply for MVV but it's bad they require language examination. Moreover, examination costs 350 Euros and MVV application 830 Euros. From where to get such money? Or do you think that EU family members are exempted from this fee?

[lifeart]

You are not very forthcoming with your own details.
Is your husband living with you in Lithuania at this point, or not ? etc., etc
Also, please make sure you understand the materials you read:
there is no way that Holland or any other EU mamber state would require your husband to take a language test before a visa is issued (except of course Lithuania, as it is your home country). If your husband is not in EU at this point he may need a visa to enter, but this visa needs to be for free and also be issued under a simplified procedure.
Cannot say much more because there is too little info available

[flyboy]

yustynne, MVVand the language requirements does not apply to EU citizens and their non EU family members.

http://www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/ver ... =1&lang=en

Is it true that the MVV obligation does not apply to family members or relatives of residents of the European Union?
If you are married to or if you are the (registered) partner of a citizens of the European Union you do not need to apply for an MVV. You can travel to the Netherlands together with your partner. This also applies to a number of other family members. For more information, please go to ‘Family member of a citizen of the European Unionâ



The only documents your husband have to submit for a short stay schengen visa which is issued free charge is his passport, photographs, your marriage certificate, your passport. And yes, your husband can apply for the residence card with only a short stay visa from within holland. The cost which is 41 euros.
All the things you mentioned are applicable to non EU nationals who don't have any ties with EU citizens. Since your husband is a family member of an EU citizen, he has the same rights as you.

[yustynne]

yustynne, MVVand the language requirements does not apply to EU citizens and their non EU family members.

http://www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/ver ... =1&lang=en

Is it true that the MVV obligation does not apply to family members or relatives of residents of the European Union?
If you are married to or if you are the (registered) partner of a citizens of the European Union you do not need to apply for an MVV. You can travel to the Netherlands together with your partner. This also applies to a number of other family members. For more information, please go to ‘Family member of a citizen of the European Unionâ



The only documents your husband have to submit for a short stay schengen visa which is issued free charge is his passport, photographs, your marriage certificate, your passport. And yes, your husband can apply for the residence card with only a short stay visa from within holland. The cost which is 41 euros.
All the things you mentioned are applicable to non EU nationals who don't have any ties with EU citizens. Since your husband is a family member of an EU citizen, he has the same rights as you.

Hello Flyboy, the things you explained to me sound great! So it means first of all i must excercise EC Treaty in Holland for a period of time (i will stay there as an employee) and then i must go to my husband to Morocco and together with my husband apply for a Short stay visa in Holland embassy in Morocco as we could travel together to Holland. It's craziness they require only his passport, photos, marriage certificate and my passport. Shouldn't i also give a copy of my work contract from Holland or a bank statement of the last 6 months showing that my husband will be financially supported by me? Shouldn't we show our flight tickets? Shouldn't my husband submit health insurance? What about RH? Do you think the officers will make an interview with me and him separately as to make sure our RH is ok?
It seems Flyboy you know many things about Holland and i'm very thankful you help me to clarify things. Do you know any friends who have applied for a Short stay visa for Holland or any other country under EU laws like that?

[flyboy]

Quite a few members on this board, family members of EU citizens applied for their visas with just those documents. On the other hand some embassies do ask for health insurance, especially for family members that resides in countries outside of the EU. Bear in mind that on many embassies websites they usually lists the requirements which are intended for 3rd country nationals not family members of EU citizens. Non EU family members of EU citizens should be treated differently than normal 3rd country nationals regarding visa requirements and you should demand that right.

Some links of embassies to give you an idea of what they require from family members of EU citizens applying for schengen visas.

French consulate in Casablanca which asks for the documents i mentioned in my previous post as well as asking for health insurance:

http://www.consulfrance-ma.org/IMG/pdf/visa_ue_eee.pdf

Swedish embassy in London:

http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____54849.aspx

Netherland embassy in london:

http://www.netherlands-embassy.org.uk/p ... x.php?i=61

The Danish link here explains it very clearly how visas should be issued to family members of EU Citizens:

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_t ... ations.htm

One more thing, remember, you and your husband have an initial right of residence in any EU country for the first 3 months. Only after those 3 months are up are you required to exercise a treaty right if you want to stay on longer. You don't need to be employed to have your husband come over. If finding a job takes more time than you expected , you could register as a jobseeker as well and be considered as exercising a treaty right. However in that time, you'll have to have enough funds to support yourself and your husband.

[yustynne]

The intention of all this is that my husband would stay with me in Holland to live together so it means before applying for a Short stay visa i must excercise EC Treaty. Let's say my husband is issued a Short stay visa and we together go to Holland. He applies for RC under EU laws inside Holland but his Short stay visa will be valid not more than 3 months or even less and the processing of RC will take time from 2-6 months so will he have to leave Holland when his visa expires or do you think he may be prolonged? What to do in such case? Somehow i'm not so much sure about Short stay visa because in such cases other people apply for Join Spouse visas that means they are Long stay visas and grants a possibility to apply for RC but as Holland doesn't have Join Spouse visa only MVV so for my case remains only a Short stay visa. I really hope that this visa grants a possibility to apply inside the country! For example, in Ireland only D type visa grants such a possibility, that's why it is Join Spouse visa but if my husband would enter Ireland let's say with Schengen visa and it is C type surely he couldn't apply for RC. It's very slippy! I really hope that Holland in this matter is different than Ireland. What i like about Holland is that they have 2 concepts to look at a family: family formation and family reunification. I guess it means they look positively even if when applying family is still under formation.
I have also noticed that Danish write everything in detail in their websites but i don't know if it makes people to get visas easier. I see if applying for Denmark they have sth like family visa. However, they have hard stuffs for EC Treaty.
In your mind would it better to enter a country which suggests long term visa as then to process RC or is it also good short stay visa? Which country of these 3 seems to have the most developed laws and easiest rules to take husband?

[yustynne]

Has anybody applied for a short stay visa for Holland?
Also Holland distinguishes differences between family formation and family reunification. If i have not resided in Holland at that time i got married to my husband in Morocco, does it mean we will be processed as family reunification? What RH then do they want to see?
I also don't understand the income requirement for family reunification. They write standard amount per month 120% is 1295,07 Euros. How should i understand this? Are these money shown dirrectly in hands what you get from job or on documents? And if i work alone and my husband is jobless? Should i show alone all 1295,07 Euros per month?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

yustynne,

As has been pointed out, for the first 90 days you do not need to be working.

You are Lithuanian so you need to choose a country that you can find work and where YOU can easily deal with the transition EU rules. Some countries have no restriction on Lithuanians working, e.g. the UK, and I believe others still have restrictions, e.g. Germany.

Your husband has the right to be with you whereever you are living and working (except Lithuania).

[yustynne]

yustynne,

As has been pointed out, for the first 90 days you do not need to be working.

You are Lithuanian so you need to choose a country that you can find work and where YOU can easily deal with the transition EU rules. Some countries have no restriction on Lithuanians working, e.g. the UK, and I believe others still have restrictions, e.g. Germany.

Your husband has the right to be with you whereever you are living and working (except Lithuania).

Mike

Hey Mike,
Thanks for your remarks! Yeah, you are right and that's what i'm trying now to figure out and to do. I know that some countries like Germany and Austria still require Lithuanians to hold work permits for that it would be hard to realise myself in these countries. Most of other countries i believe have no restrictions on Lithuanians. I won't choose the UK because it has tightened the immigration rules and has high fees for applications. I'm thinking to choose Ireland, Holland or Denmark. What do you think about these countries?

[meats]

yustynne,

As has been pointed out, for the first 90 days you do not need to be working.

You are Lithuanian so you need to choose a country that you can find work and where YOU can easily deal with the transition EU rules. Some countries have no restriction on Lithuanians working, e.g. the UK, and I believe others still have restrictions, e.g. Germany.

Your husband has the right to be with you whereever you are living and working (except Lithuania).

Mike

Hey Mike,
Thanks for your remarks! Yeah, you are right and that's what i'm trying now to figure out and to do. I know that some countries like Germany and Austria still require Lithuanians to hold work permits for that it would be hard to realise myself in these countries. Most of other countries i believe have no restrictions on Lithuanians. I won't choose the UK because it has tightened the immigration rules and has high fees for applications. I'm thinking to choose Ireland, Holland or Denmark. What do you think about these countries?

How about choosing a country that you actually want to be in and then go from there instead of choosing the one which has the laxest immigration rules?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You should pay NO fee in any country you go to, and definitely NO LARGE fee. UK is definitely free, as is Ireland and Germany. Netherlands may charge you a small fee for the issue of the Residence Card, but it is pretty minimal.

[Rozen]

Netherlands may charge you a small fee for the issue of the Residence Card, but it is pretty minimal.

It's called "Application for Verification against Community Law" (Proof of Lawful Residence) to be completed on Form M35E. And it is only 41 Euro!
When you get to NL, you will need to register yourselves at the local Gemeente (Council) in the area where you will be living.
After that, you will need to ring IND and make an appointment for applying to stay in NL under the EU Directive.
IND will send you the Form M35E to complete, as well as an appointment date on which to attend the IND to submit your application. It is at the end of this appointment that you will pay the 41 Euro for the application process to continue.
Takes about 2 months to process the Residence Card (Verblijfsdocument), and it will be good to go for 5 years!
In the meantime your non-EU partner gets to keep their passport (which by the way, is stamped by IND with a six month temporary stay visa to stay in NL, with permission to work straight away) while the application is in process.
So don't worry that your partner will only have a 3 month Schengen visa, which might expire while they are dealing with his application.
During the application process you will be sent a Form M46A to your address for you to fill in your details. This is their (IND) way of finding out whether your relationship is genuine or not, and that you are actually staying at the address you have given them.
You may (or may not) be visited by the police, who will ask you some questions about your relationship. They (police) will then forward their 'findings' to IND, and a final decision will be made as to whether you can stay, or not. The police will not usually come to visit, unless they feel the need to clarify certain concerns by IND.
Please note that you will also need to have health insurance once in NL.
Hope this somehow gives you an idea of what to expect, should you choose Nederland. By the way, there is a large Morrocan community here and maybe your hubby would like that!.

[Ben]

Lots of very useful information there Rozen.

Just one thing:

Please note that you will also need to have health insurance once in NL.

Not if the EU national is employed or self-employed.

[Rozen]

Lots of very useful information there Rozen.

Just one thing:

Please note that you will also need to have health insurance once in NL.

Not if the EU national is employed or self-employed.

Benifa, we are employed and my husband is Dutch born and bred! But we still have to have health insurance. Otherwise you cannot even register with a GP.