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Visa confusion !

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Pyromaniac
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Visa confusion !

Post by Pyromaniac » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:38 am

Yes - it's easy for me to get confused !

Trying a new part of the forum after excellent advice in other parts during the process of marrying my Indonesian wife and getting her permanent residency.

Me - UK citizen born and bred
Spouse - Indonesian citizen - with ILR

Wife thinks as UK part of Europe she can travel with me to Europe with no visa. ( I think she wants to go to France )

I think she still has to get a Schengen visa as UK is not fully integrated into Europe ?

Not too clear on all the Europe side of things as never needed any visa before when single !

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction to find out more ?

Many Thanks

Gerry

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:52 am

She will need a visa.

Tobbe
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Post by Tobbe » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:14 am

http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Family-mem ... opean.html Explains why she needs a visa to visit France. It is however free of charge and they release new appointments at the embassy between 3pm and 5pm on Thursdays so you might be able to get one today.

dublin3
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Location: ireland

Post by dublin3 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:00 am

she needs a visa to go to any schengen country

acme4242
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Post by acme4242 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:17 pm

Because the UK government don't fight for UK citizens families, you
need a visa.

However if you where from any other EU country, e.g. Ireland.
and resident in the UK, your wife would not need a visa when you visit
France, as your family would be beneficiaries of EU law (2004/38/EC)

You should raise this issue with your MP and MEP
This is a simple problem to solve.

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:22 pm

acme4242 wrote:Because the UK government don't fight for UK citizens families, you
need a visa.
...
You should raise this issue with your MP and MEP
This is a simple problem to solve.
Funny, all along I thought that's just because of UK's refusal to join Schengen...

Ben
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Post by Ben » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:32 pm

86ti wrote:Funny, all along I thought that's just because of UK's refusal to join Schengen...
It is because the UK is not in Schengen.

It is also because the Indonesian national is not the family member of an EEA national who is exercising EU Treaty rights in the UK, so does not possess a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen and so eligible for visa-free travel when accompanying / joining her EEA national family member in another Member State.
I am no longer posting publicly on this website - PM me if needed.

steev84
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Post by steev84 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:38 pm

You're right on that one

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:56 pm

benifa wrote:
86ti wrote:Funny, all along I thought that's just because of UK's refusal to join Schengen...
It is because the UK is not in Schengen.
And why not? Because they do not want to. That's the point here and not the alleged unwilligness of the UK government to fight for the rights of their own citizens.
benifa wrote:It is also because the Indonesian national is not the family member of an EEA national who is exercising EU Treaty rights in the UK, so does not possess a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen and so eligible for visa-free travel when accompanying / joining her EEA national family member in another Member State.
If the UK were Schengen this point would be futile.

Wanderer
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Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:56 pm

86ti wrote:
acme4242 wrote:Because the UK government don't fight for UK citizens families, you
need a visa.
...
You should raise this issue with your MP and MEP
This is a simple problem to solve.
Funny, all along I thought that's just because of UK's refusal to join Schengen...
You can understand why as well, after watching UK Border Force over the last few weeks, the entire population of the now-gone 'Jungle' would be in the UK in a jiffy if border controls were lifted.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

meats
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Post by meats » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:59 pm

Wanderer wrote:
86ti wrote:
acme4242 wrote:Because the UK government don't fight for UK citizens families, you
need a visa.
...
You should raise this issue with your MP and MEP
This is a simple problem to solve.
Funny, all along I thought that's just because of UK's refusal to join Schengen...
You can understand why as well, after watching UK Border Force over the last few weeks, the entire population of the now-gone 'Jungle' would be in the UK in a jiffy if border controls were lifted.
So would a lot more too. Instead of settling in places like Italy, Spain etc they'd be over here in a flash.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:15 pm

86ti wrote:And why not? Because they do not want to. That's the point here and not the alleged unwilligness of the UK government to fight for the rights of their own citizens.
Exactly. acme4242 is wrong to say it's anything to do with "the UK government don't fight for UK citizens families".
I am no longer posting publicly on this website - PM me if needed.

ca.funke
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Belgium

Post by ca.funke » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:25 pm

The UK could, if they wanted, issue 2004/38/EC permits to family-members of UK citizens, irrespective of weather they excercised treaty-rights elsewhere. (Belgium does)

The UK could also stop the illegal practice of not recognising above permits issued by other EU-countries for visits to the UK.

The UK could also negotiate a seperate UK-Schengen agreement which could mutually recognise valid residence-permits of any kind for visits (only).
Wanderer wrote:You can understand why as well, after watching UK Border Force over the last few weeks, the entire population of the now-gone 'Jungle' would be in the UK in a jiffy if border controls were lifted.
meats wrote:So would a lot more too. Instead of settling in places like Italy, Spain etc they'd be over here in a flash.
In the scenarios I described above, none of this could/would have happened, as the UK would keep their border-checkpoints, and only 2004/38/EC-documented people would be allowed to cross. All these people are tracable through the SIS, to which the UK has access.

But the UK prefers to make a drama rather than finding practical solutions.

The UK does not want to integrate any further, instead they drift (not steer) towards anglophile countries:

For example: Some nationals need a transit-visa for the UK (understandable). However, "A transit passenger is not required to hold a transit visa if he holds (...) a valid visa for entry to Australia, Canada, New Zealand or the United States of America and a valid airline ticket for travel via the United Kingdom as part of a journey...", no mention of the European Union.

Why can people with (only) visas for above countries transit the UK, while EU-residence-permit-holders cannot?
Example: I met a Nigerian citizen in the UK-embassy in Dublin (properly documented permanent Irish resident) who wanted to get a DirectAirsideTransit-visa for travel to Nigeria (Dublin - London - Nigeria - London - Dublin). Now, what´s the sense of thoroughly checking her papers? If she wanted to go to the UK "illegally", she´d just have to take a flight, hop on a boat or simply drive north via the unmanned border. She´d be there in less time than it takes to pass the Q at the embassy.

But this poor lady learned that, now that she wants to be law-abiding, she has to bring a (unbelievably huge) bunch of papers, and will have to wait a few weeks before a "decision" is taken.

What´s the point, especially from Dublin, I wonder?
Isn´t it time the UK officially applies to become the 51st state of the United States, or maybe apply to become a territory of Canada, Australia or NZ?

No matter what, it´s definetely time for the UK to leave the EU...
Last edited by ca.funke on Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

meats
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Post by meats » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:43 pm

ca.funke wrote: No matter what, it´s definetely time for the UK to leave the EU...
If only the government had the balls to give us a referendum asking whether we wanted to leave the EU or not.

ca.funke
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Belgium

Post by ca.funke » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:45 pm

meats wrote:If only the government had the balls to give us a referendum asking whether we wanted to leave the EU or not.
I guess in this matter we´d be pulling on the same string... Albeit for probably rather different reasons ;)

meats
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Post by meats » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:53 pm

ca.funke wrote:
meats wrote:If only the government had the balls to give us a referendum asking whether we wanted to leave the EU or not.
I guess in this matter we´d be pulling on the same string... Albeit for probably rather different reasons ;)
I think so yes :wink:

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