UK Absences and Application for Nationality

[juniorcitizen]

I've received some conflicting advice and need some guidance.

I'm in the process of putting together my application for British nationality, as I am close to the five year mark during which I have been in the UK (entered on 2 year work permit, received 3 year extension, at 3 years 11 months of time in the UK I was granted ILR).

In accounting for my absences from the UK, my solicitor has advised that I only need to account for the stamps in my passport, and not for trips that are not denoted in my passport by an entrance/exit stamp. For example, I took trips to Paris in 2001 on the Eurostar, and my passport was neither stamped on entry to France, exit from France, or return to the UK, though I did legally clear Immigration at both borders. In some cases I have entry stamps without corresponding exit stamps, and visa versa.

The Form AN(new) guide makes no reference to this, saying I should list everything. However, I do not have an accurate accounting (getting credit card/frequent traveller mileage records is not possible) of those trips for which stamps do not exist.

No matter how you add up the totals, I was out of the country way under the 480/90 day limits set for naturalisation.

Any advice? What process does the Home Office use to validate this information?

[John]

My comment is ... tell the truth ... especially as you have no reason to lie.

That is, answer the form factually ... if it asks for date of leaving the UK and date of return, well enter that information. Include all trips.

I am very surprised it has been suggested that you would do anything else. There is always a danger that your passport or visa were scanned and that a record exists in the IND computer system, even if it does not exist in your passport.

It amazed me, before my wife got her British Citizenship, when we went to France on a ferry, she having a Schengen visa in her passport, her passport was not stamped either going into France, nor when returning to the UK. But that trip was nevertheless entered on to her AN(NEW) form.

[sfgirl]

I had a similar problem when I applied for BC although most of my unrecorded trips were between N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

I agree with John, if you know the answer than put it on the form. I often didn't, so took a reasonable guess and tried to estimate approximate dates.

[juniorcitizen]

Thanks. I do agree with you both that its better to list as much as possible. Certainly I would never suggest to anyone to lie or given inaccurate information!

For the dates I don't have wholly accurate records, I was thinking of listing dates as approximate as possible - I've been trawling through old emails to find messages to friends or colleagues indicating that I was away.

Sadly I don't have credit card statement or mobile phone bills that can help the process.

Has anyone had any experience of their application being delayed, questioned or rejected because of questions regarding their absenses?

[Khurram]

For the dates I don't have wholly accurate records, I was thinking of listing dates as approximate as possible - I've been trawling through old emails to find messages to friends or colleagues indicating that I was away.

I would suggest trying your luck with the administration manager/personnel ... am sure they'd be able to dig up your leave requests.

Regards

[Joseph]

juniorcitizen

In accounting for my absences from the UK, my solicitor has advised that I only need to account for the stamps in my passport, and not for trips that are not denoted in my passport by an entrance/exit stamp.

Sorry I came late but I would really question the competence (and ethics) of a solicitor who came up with that rubbish. I sure wouldn't pay for his services. Starting in August 2000 the IOs stopped stamping incoming arrivals on people with ongoing leave to remain, but obviously these arrivals are recorded via the landing cards and the computer database.

You could really hurt you chances if you omit relevant information like that.

Joseph

[bbdivo]

Do you need to include trips to the Channel Islands? The reason I ask is for tax purposes they are considered outside of the UK, and in fact when you return you have to go through customs (not the blue Euro line) However there is no passport control whatsoever, in fact you dont even need to carry your passport with you?

I have made numerous trips their, but there is no record in my passport and my passport would never have been scanned!

[John]

Do you need to include trips to the Channel Islands?

No, and neither for trips to the Isle of Man either.

[bbdivo]

Thanks John, that puts my mind at rest!

[juniorcitizen]

Just to follow-up on this, and perhaps give some advice for others in a similar predicament.

For starters, I decided not to use the solicitor that gave me the bad advice.

I've now managed to account for nearly every day of my life from my date of entry in late September 2000 through present-day. I started with the easy stuff - the stamps in my passport (but these only reflect a small number of my actual trips), and then going through my digital camera pictures folder on my computer. Luckily for me, I keep that very organized and have a folder for each trip I took with the dates of the trip.

After that, I started going through my personal email (for which I have every message I've sent/received since 2001) and finding emails I had sent to friends/family noting days I was away. That wasn't completely accurate, so I then compared that rough information to my work email - again, luckily, I have every single email I've sent/received over the past five years, and was able to piece together the actual travel dates.

The problem that I had was that my work trips were often spontaneous, were paid for by a whole host of means (so I couldn't just look at my credit card statements of get a list of bookings from the company travel agent), and since they were work days and a normal part of my job, not considered days out of the office.

However, I totaled it all up and it came to less than I expected - under 350 days for five years (and less than 30 this year), in 70 trips.

My advice to newcomers - from day one, keep your own detailed travel log.

[Mo007]

juniorcitizen

In accounting for my absences from the UK, my solicitor has advised that I only need to account for the stamps in my passport, and not for trips that are not denoted in my passport by an entrance/exit stamp.

Sorry I came late but I would really question the competence (and ethics) of a solicitor who came up with that rubbish. I sure wouldn't pay for his services. Starting in August 2000 the IOs stopped stamping incoming arrivals on people with ongoing leave to remain, but obviously these arrivals are recorded via the landing cards and the computer database.

You could really hurt you chances if you omit relevant information like that.

Joseph

I went to Belgium last April, and returned to London via Euostar. Before I boarded the Eurostar from Brussels, I had to go through British Immigration check-point, who looked at my ILR travel document, gave me a landing card to fill... and eventually STAMPED my travel document on the date of arrival back to the UK. So, I don't think the IO's stopped stamping incoming arrivals at all. My ILR travel document was also stamped on inital arrival of Brussels too, I think all European countries are required to stamp ILR holders travel documents on their arrival.

- mo

[Joseph]

M007

After August 2000, people with Limited Leave to Remain (i.e. Work Permit with specific time frame) no longer had their passports stamped with the paragraph 3.3 notation (continuation of previous leave). I believe this may have changed somewhat over the last year, because one of my family members received a simple date stamp just before getting ILR.

On the other hand, people with ILR have always had their incoming passport stamped with a simple date stamp. I assume you had ILR when you went to Brussels?

In my previous comment regarding applying for naturalisation, I was referring to the period from August 2000 to the time the naturalisation applicant received ILR. In my case I had many overseas trips during that period but not one incoming UK immigration stamp.

Regards

Joseph

[uday]

Hi all,

I have a similar, but more complex scenario. I am based out of UK, but most of my job would be outside UK, travelling to both Europe and USA. Around 35 - 40 weeks (week of 5 days - as mostly I come back home for 95% of the weekends), I am out of the country in any given year. However, I have my salary paid into my UK bank account regularly, paying proper Taxes and NI. Does this hinder my application for the ILR after the specified period of 4 years. If it does, can my wife, staying here on a dependent visa apply for the ILR seperately.

As I understand my the earlier discussion, I need to keep a record of all my movements for submitting the ILR later on. Am I correct.

thanks in advance.

[jazbaati99]

Uday

From experience of my friends you should be fine for ILR provided you have a strong support letter from your employer and relevent documentations (salary slips, P60 etc). For naturalization, probably these absences may cause you some problem though I am in the same boat as you.

Cheers

[uday]

Thanks Jazbatti..atleast I have an option to fight the case..

[Chris]

Uday,

Your dependant can never apply for ILR indepenantly. So there is no advantage of your dependant being in the country without major absent. Its your application which will drive the whole ILR application.

Joseph,

As per my experience I went to switzerland along with my friend. We both had WP for 2 years. When I crossed the Zurich port barrier my passport was stamped with a date but my friends passport was not stamped at all. I think probably it also depends on the immigration officer.


Chris

[olisun]

agreed with Chris, your dependant can never apply for ILR independently

[Joseph]

Chris,

You're right, there are always instances where the passport is not stamped and the UK experience is not always consistent.

However, for the purposes of the nationality application, one should always assume that if the passport was checked and a landing card was taken, the UK authorities have some record of the trip in their database. To any possible credibility problems, one should always report such trips on the application.

Joseph