Permanent Residence Card & naturalisation as British

sash117 · Post by **sash117** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:40 pm

Hi

I applied for PR Card using EEA4 form in July and got my passport back on 4th Aug 2009 with stamp and its valid until 4th Aug 2019.
I am Pakistani citizen and my wife is Czech Citizen.
I have been living in UK since April 1997.

My question:
Can I apply for naturalisation as British Citizen? lets say after 4th Aug 2010?

Thanks

Saad

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:09 pm

You can apply for naturalisation after one year following your acquisition of Permanent Residence - not one year from when you received your Permanent Residence Card.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:48 am

Hello there, that's what happened to me, i applied for PR in may 2009 and i got my PR stamp on my passport till 2014. i got married in march 2003 and got my resident document in Nov 2004. since i've spent 6.5years in u.k with my french wife, am i eligible to naturalize by doing life in uk test. can someone get in contact to me throgh this post

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:49 am

Hello there, i need urgent advice on this matter,because it's not clear to me at all.
I got marry to my wife (who is an european citizen of french) in March 2003, but eventually recieve my my resident document in November 2004(because there was a delay in my issue of my nigeria passport from the nigeria embassy that was why it took so long to get the resident document) and it had expired on september 2, but send to home office in may this year to apply for permanent resident but to my surprise i was given recident stamp on my passport to expire 2014 after spending 6and half years in this country.

MARRIED IN MARCH 2003
GOT RESIDENT DOCUMENT IN NOVEMBER 2004
GOT ANOTHER RECIDENT CARD IN NOVEMBER 2009 TO EXPIRE AGAIN IN 2014 AFTER 6.5 YEARS

Is this normal, because i think they should have put parmanent residence in passport with no expiration dates on it
My question is can i naturalize or apply for brithish passport after taking life test in uk and how long is it going to take.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:58 am

arsenal22 wrote:since i've spent 6.5years in u.k with my french wife, am i eligible to naturalize

Yes.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:59 am

arsenal22 wrote:GOT ANOTHER RECIDENT CARD IN NOVEMBER 2009 TO EXPIRE AGAIN IN 2014 AFTER 6.5 YEARS

Is this normal, because i think they should have put parmanent residence in passport with no expiration dates on it

When does your passport expire?

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:39 pm

Thanks for your concern got the message late. my passport expire on octomber 21 2009. the home office wrote to me on the 27th of Octomber that i had to renew the Nigeria passport, i did renew my passport sent it back to home office and i was given my resident card/permanent resident(don't understand) stamp till 2014. the question is can apply for naturalization now or next year2010, thanks

kashyme · Post by **kashyme** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:57 pm

hi
arsenal22 i never heard of this that a PR is issued with less than 10 years duration. Are you sure it is PR or they gave you a residence card again. Because by law it must be renewable after 10 years not 5.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:22 am

Hi There, thanks your your reply, why do they give me another five years which is another resident card. since i have my resident document 6.5 yrs ago i don't really understand, i thought it should be PR after i've been in this country for 6.5 years, that really baffles me but my solicitors said that i can apply for naturalization. i'm panicking now, because he's one i used for the application.

I need more advice on this matter, thanks.

kashyme · Post by **kashyme** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:20 am

Hi arsenal22
did you use form EEA2 or EEA4?
It may be because wrong form was used
ur solicitor has no knowledge of eea law and he used wrong form
talk to him and tell him about this, he should send the eea4 application now without delay and send all the supporting documents to get correct residence document.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 pm

I told him that i was surprised that i was given resident card stamp instead of PR. Because in the acknowledge letter i was sent by the Home Office when we put the application through. said thanks for the application of resident card or parmanent residence.

He later told me that i can apply for naturalization straight away by passing life in test uk. since i've been here for 6.5years, iam doing my test next week and apply inearly part fo december.

Any suggestion may be he's right about me going for the naturalization.

pronylee · Post by **pronylee** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:43 am

u cannot apply for british citizenship until u r given pr status and also hold it for atleast a year seek more advise pls

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:55 am

pronylee wrote:u cannot apply for british citizenship until u r given pr status and also hold it for atleast a year seek more advise pls

PR is attained automatically and not given or granted. It is neither necessary nor legally required to apply for the PR card before naturalisation.

Post by **Obie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:42 pm

The HO made a mistake issuing a Resident Card for five year, as they should have issued a Permanent Resident Card Valid for 10 years.

You should have called them and get it sorted.

This will nevertheless have no bearing on your Naturalisation Application. Just compile evidence to show that you have lived in the UK with your EEA wife, who is exercising treaty rights in the UK for a continuous period of 5 Years.

Solicitor is right, proceed with the AN form application.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:09 pm

Hi There, i was thinking because my Nigeria passport will be expiring in 2014, i think that was the main reason the gave me the stamp to expire in 2014. But i've been in this country with my EU wife for about 6.5yrs now. The question is can i apply for naturalization now and i thought also because i have not done the life in uk test, that's the main reason they did not issue the parmanent resident stamp till 2019.

Can anybody comment more on this, thanks.

Post by **Obie** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:37 pm

No, no, no. Under no circumstance is life in the UK test required for permanent resident under EU law, .

They made a mistake, which you can get them to ammend, or just take the life in the UK test and apply for naturalisation using form AN.

KOL test is for naturalisation only and not for Permanent resident.

Their mistake will not have any bearing on your naturalisation application.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:10 pm

Thanks for the imformation.

arsenal22 · Post by **arsenal22** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:14 pm

And one thing i want to ask is, when i got married in March 2003, do i start counting years since from the time i got marriied in march till date and my wife has been working since then. or the day you were actually given the resident document in 2004.

sash117 · Post by **sash117** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:32 pm

Hi

As far as I know and I have confirmed with the Nationality Checking Services (NCS) that no one (With 10 years Permanent Residence Card Stamp) can apply for Nationalization.

They told me that Home Office issued me with 10 years visa, even visa is called PR Card, but there is end date on it e.g. I can not apply for Nationalization.... Even I have used the correct EEA4 application.

Anyway I do have meeting with them on 10th Dec, as my kids can apply for Nationalization and I will discuss my case with them and let you know guys who are on PR Card visa stamp (10 Years - EEA4).

There is a different between ILR stamp and PR Card (EEA4).
ILR have no end date, PR Card do have expire date normally 10 years.

Let see on 10th Dec..

Saad[/b]

kashyme · Post by **kashyme** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:46 pm

hi sash117
they are wrong
this is not a validity date this is the date of renewal of PR document so ur status will remain that of a person who is settled even after 10 years when you want to renew it. You can check the forum , there are members who got permanent residence through EU route and are british citizens now so don`t worry about this. The person u talked to is wrong. This 10 years card which is given to you is under the EEA law so 1 year after acquiring PR status u can apply for naturalisation .

noble72uk · Post by **noble72uk** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:47 am

sash117 wrote:Hi

As far as I know and I have confirmed with the Nationality Checking Services (NCS) that no one (With 10 years Permanent Residence Card Stamp) can apply for Nationalization.

They told me that Home Office issued me with 10 years visa, even visa is called PR Card, but there is end date on it e.g. I can not apply for Nationalization.... Even I have used the correct EEA4 application.

Anyway I do have meeting with them on 10th Dec, as my kids can apply for Nationalization and I will discuss my case with them and let you know guys who are on PR Card visa stamp (10 Years - EEA4).

There is a different between ILR stamp and PR Card (EEA4).
ILR have no end date, PR Card do have expire date normally 10 years.

Let see on 10th Dec..

Saad[/b]

Hi Sash

I think you should print this and take it to the (NCS) or change another place to apply with:
As far as I know a lot of friends have had apply since last years without never been told what the NCS told you.

Please clique on this link and read about naturalisation, U just need to be free from immigration control (ILR/PR). The 10 years expiry date for the non EEA who are family of the EEA members, the passports last only 10 years no more, this is the only reason.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... uirements/
European Economic Area nationals and Swiss nationals
If you are a European Economic Area (EEA) national or a Swiss national or the family member of such a person, you will automatically have permanent residence status if you have exercised EEA free-movement rights in the United Kingdom for a continuous five-year period ending on or after 30 April 2006. You do not have to apply for leave to remain. You should have held permanent residence status for 12 months before you apply for naturalisation.
If you have been outside the United Kingdom for six months or more in any one of the five years of the residence period you will have broken your residence. This does not apply if:
ï‚§ the absence was due to military service; or
ï‚§ all absences were for under 12 months and were for important reasons such as pregnancy, childcare, serious illness, study, vocational training or an overseas posting.
If you leave the United Kingdom for a continuous period of two years or more you will lose your permanent residence status.
If you have indefinite leave to remain (ILR) in the United Kingdom you will be considered settled providing you have not been away for two years or more since you received ILR.

sash117 · Post by **sash117** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Thanks Noble & Kashyme,

Ok, I will ask her again face to face, on phone its difficult to explain.
Honestly I got more knowledge then her.

I then apply directly next year on 4th Aug 2010, so I have spend 1 year on this PR status.

Thank you again and I will let you know on 10th Dec, just for info sake.

Bye

Sash

meinkaninchen · Post by **meinkaninchen** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:35 pm

kashyme wrote:hi sash117
they are wrong
this is not a validity date this is the date of renewal of PR document so ur status will remain that of a person who is settled even after 10 years when you want to renew it. You can check the forum , there are members who got permanent residence through EU route and are british citizens now so don`t worry about this. The person u talked to is wrong. This 10 years card which is given to you is under the EEA law so 1 year after acquiring PR status u can apply for naturalisation .

thats good to know and certainly cleared my confusion. But would even be better if I can see some official reference on this. Any written literature on this or did you find it out from calling Home Office? Would appreciate a lot if I can have some some more light shed on this

meinkaninchen · Post by **meinkaninchen** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:48 pm

sash117 wrote:Hi

As far as I know and I have confirmed with the Nationality Checking Services (NCS) that no one (With 10 years Permanent Residence Card Stamp) can apply for Nationalization.

They told me that Home Office issued me with 10 years visa, even visa is called PR Card, but there is end date on it e.g. I can not apply for Nationalization.... Even I have used the correct EEA4 application.

Anyway I do have meeting with them on 10th Dec, as my kids can apply for Nationalization and I will discuss my case with them and let you know guys who are on PR Card visa stamp (10 Years - EEA4).

There is a different between ILR stamp and PR Card (EEA4).
ILR have no end date, PR Card do have expire date normally 10 years.

Let see on 10th Dec..

Saad[/b]

Hi Sash, any up to date from the meeting?

kashyme · Post by **kashyme** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:52 pm

meinkaninchen wrote:
kashyme wrote:hi sash117
they are wrong
this is not a validity date this is the date of renewal of PR document so ur status will remain that of a person who is settled even after 10 years when you want to renew it. You can check the forum , there are members who got permanent residence through EU route and are british citizens now so don`t worry about this. The person u talked to is wrong. This 10 years card which is given to you is under the EEA law so 1 year after acquiring PR status u can apply for naturalisation .
thats good to know and certainly cleared my confusion. But would even be better if I can see some official reference on this. Any written literature on this or did you find it out from calling Home Office? Would appreciate a lot if I can have some some more light shed on this

Hi ,
please see chapter 6 of the euorpean casework instructions here
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... dlaw/ecis/
In section 4 of this chapter u will see:
"4. Validity of documents certifying permanent residence and permanent residence cards
A Document Certifying Permanent Residence does not have a date of expiry. However, a Permanent Residence Card is valid for 10 years from the date of issue and must be renewed upon application. This is subject to Regulation 20(3) concerning the loss of the right of permanent residence. A Document Certifying Permanent Residence and a Permanent Residence Card will cease to be valid if the holder ceases to have a right of permanent residence under Regulation 15(2)."

You can find regulation 20(3) and 15(2) here:
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary
I understand that words must be renewed upon application shows that the holder of PR will remain a permanent resident if he does not leave UK for more than 2 years . Even an ILR holder will loose its indefinite leave to remain if he lives outside of UK for such long period.

And secondly if you have PR sticker in ur passport u can see it uses words "DOCUMENT RENEWAL DATE" not "valid until".

Regards

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Permanent Residence Card & naturalisation as British

Permanent Residence Card & naturalisation as British

Permanent Residence Card & Neutralization as British

Re: Permanent Residence Card & Neutralization as British

Re: Permanent Residence Card & Neutralization as British