ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

new law

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

Locked
jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

new law

Post by jude » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:55 pm

Hallo People.
I was talking with a european case working last 2 weeks about if an Non EEA national living in uk can become EEA national base on the non EEA child which is EEA national from the mother and is right. Do anyone here know about this? you can become EEA without marraige but if you have a child that is EEA him/herself.
hallo

kashyme
Junior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 5:31 pm

Post by kashyme » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:15 am

hi
plz explain it.
how can someone become EEA national without being EEA national ????
very confusing :roll:
i assume u want to say that if a non eea national have a child with an eea national , can he/she be treated as eea national for immigration purpose, Is this what u want to say?

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

hy

Post by jude » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:28 pm

Yes kashyme. I was told non EEA can be considering EEA national if he/she has a baby with EEA national. Is that truth?
hallo

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:07 pm

Are you married to or in a long term relationship with an EEA national? If so you have the same right of residence in the Uk as they do. You are not automatically an EEA national, because of that relationship, but you can go whereever they do and work (or not).

This is not a new law. This is from European law and (more recently) Directive 2004/38/EC

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:03 pm

Thanks man, but I do not think you understand my question. Non EEA have a baby with EEA partner but not marraige living togther less than 2 years.( over stay visa) The child have EEA passport. Can the non EEA apply to live in the country base on the child ? because he is the father.
hallo

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:09 pm

Most likely yes. Because of the relationship with the mother.

Which country are you living in?

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:46 pm

Thanks is not for me a friend.
the guy is from Ghana and the partner is holland . Do the guy need to infrom HO about it or what? Do he need to send his passport and the child passport?
hallo

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:42 pm

How long have the man and women been living together?

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

hy

Post by jude » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:45 pm

1 year plus. Do u think the guy qualified? because the child is EEA , even though not woking as it is stated in EU law.
hallo

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:57 pm

Is the Dutch mother working now or was she working before the baby was born?

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:49 pm

Even, if the Dutch national was working, the non-EEA will not benefit from directive 204/38EC in the UK, as it would be argued that the durable relationship has not lasted for 2 year. The best bet will be to get marrried, which i don't think the individuals in this situation wants.

The Chen Case, is been implement under UK immigration Law as opposed to EU law, as the HO don't consider the parents to be a Dependant Assendant of the child and hence cannot consider them as EEA family members.

It is important to note that this leave will not confer any right to self-establishment or access to the job market for the holder. It will simply allow them to stay in the UK.

The UK government has stated that any parent caught working illegally, will be considered as not having sufficient resource to maintain the EEA child and would then have their residency revoked
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:40 am

Obie wrote:Even, if the Dutch national was working, the non-EEA will not benefit from directive 204/38EC in the UK, as it would be argued that the durable relationship has not lasted for 2 year. The best bet will be to get marrried, which i don't think the individuals in this situation wants.
Sorry, but that is not true. They need to have a substantial and durable relationship. No fixed amount of time together is and can be specified. Each situaton has to be evaluated on it's own basis. In this case they have been together for "one year plus" (whatever that means) and have a baby together. It smells to me like they might have a decent chance to apply for a Residence Card.

I think the Chen case is of less interest when one of the parents is an EEA citizen who has been exercising their treaty rights.

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

hy

Post by jude » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:25 pm

The mother has a permantly job but on matanity leave now. Can they apply to get marraige or what? Or sent the require document to the HO now.
hallo

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:38 pm

[b]Caseworker Manual for Resident Card Application[/b] wrote:
When deciding whether a partnership is durable for the purpose of an application under Regulation 8 (5) the following criteria should be applied:
•
The parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage which has subsisted for two years or more.
•
The parties intend to live together permanently.
•
The parties are not involved in a consanguineous relationship with one another, i.e. they are not blood relatives who would not be allowed to marry as it would constitute incest.
•
Any previous marriage (or similar relationship) by either partner has permanently broken down.
If these conditions are met then consideration can be given to issuing a Residence Card.
•
However, under no circumstances should a person be granted a Residence Card on the basis of a durable relationship if they are not lawfully resident in the United Kingdom at the time that the application is made.
Although a non-EEA national can be considered on the basis of Regulation 8 if they have provided proof that they are in a durable relationship we have discretion with regard to the issue of a Residence Card. We should not seek to exercise discretion in their favour in instances where the non-EEA national is not lawfully resident in the United Kingdom.
Any decision to refuse
In the Netherland the requirement is 6 months of cohabition.

It is not me setting the rules Directive, it is the UK government. By the way, i am in total disagreement with it, as the 2 years requirement is disproportionate.

They also require that the partner should have a lawful resident in the UK to qualify.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: hy

Post by Obie » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:44 pm

jude wrote:The mother has a permantly job but on matanity leave now. Can they apply to get marraige or what? Or sent the require document to the HO now.
Jude what is the status of the non-EEA national.

If he is not lawfully resident in the UK, the best option will be apply for Resident Card under durable relation, and whiles the application is been assessed, apply for COA or a church of England marriage.

Then provide the marriage certificate as further documentation, as the UKBA will almost certainly refuse the application, due to their failure to meet the 2 years cohabiting requirement.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:26 am

COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND THE COUNCIL
on guidance for better transposition and application of Directive 2004/38/EC on the
right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within
the territory of the Member States
The requirement of durability of the relationship must be assessed in the light of the objective
of the Directive to maintain the unity of the family in a broad sense12. National rules on
durability of partnership can refer to a minimum amount of time as a criterion for whether a
partnership can be considered as durable. However, in this case national rules would need to
foresee that other relevant aspects (such as for example a joint mortgage to buy a home) are
also taken into account
. Any denial of entry or residence must be fully justified in writing and
open to appeal.
Other relevant aspects could be a mortgage or, of course, a child.

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:46 pm
Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:41 am

Obie wrote:
[b]Caseworker Manual for Resident Card Application[/b] wrote:
When deciding whether a partnership is durable for the purpose of an application under Regulation 8 (5) the following criteria should be applied:
•
The parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage which has subsisted for two years or more.
•
The parties intend to live together permanently.
•
The parties are not involved in a consanguineous relationship with one another, i.e. they are not blood relatives who would not be allowed to marry as it would constitute incest.
•
Any previous marriage (or similar relationship) by either partner has permanently broken down.
If these conditions are met then consideration can be given to issuing a Residence Card.
•
However, under no circumstances should a person be granted a Residence Card on the basis of a durable relationship if they are not lawfully resident in the United Kingdom at the time that the application is made.
Although a non-EEA national can be considered on the basis of Regulation 8 if they have provided proof that they are in a durable relationship we have discretion with regard to the issue of a Residence Card. We should not seek to exercise discretion in their favour in instances where the non-EEA national is not lawfully resident in the United Kingdom.
Any decision to refuse
In the Netherland the requirement is 6 months of cohabition.

It is not me setting the rules Directive, it is the UK government. By the way, i am in total disagreement with it, as the 2 years requirement is disproportionate.

Quite agree, there's enough chancers claiming EEA residency on dubious relationships as it is. Maybe some sort of bond as well?
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 am
Location: Reading

hy

Post by jude » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:33 pm

The non EEA was on student visa but expire last months . Do u think the have chance to apply for EEA residency on dubious relationships ?
hallo

BLK235
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:52 am

Post by BLK235 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:55 pm

I am a bit confused.

Does
foresee that other relevant aspects (such as for example a joint mortgage to buy a home) are also taken into account

mean the application must be approved - full stop? If so, any reason it wasn't worded as such in regulation? Otherwise it would seem to mean you have to consider it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be good enough on its own for application to be approved. In other words, it seems HO can always argue: true, but it's not enough. (as we know never enough for HO :-( ...

It appears that as period is not specified in EU directive explicitly it is taken the same as under UK rules, i.e. 2 years. If not taken as under UK rules then how can you justify arbitrary period? Is it 1 year? 6 months? or maybe just 1 month is enough?

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:20 am

BLK235 wrote:Does ...mean the application must be approved - full stop?
Absolutely not. In fact the only applications that must be approved fast and "full stop" are for direct family members that married spouses, children, grand children. These can only be turned down for very restricted reasons. These people typically only have to produce a certificate, two passports, and they are done.

Common law couples have to show that they have a substantial long term relationship. These are the ones that have to do some proving. But the rules are not fixed as to what is required, at least not as fixed as the home office suggests.

BLK235
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:52 am

Post by BLK235 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:42 am

In case anyone interested, below is HO view on unmarried partners:


6.2.5 Family members of persons in 6.2.1-6.2.4
...
• Unmarried partners and extended family members are not family members as defined by Article 2 of Directive 2004/38/EC. Rather, for the purposes of free movement rights they are ‘beneficiaries’ (Article 3 of the Directive.) Member States can facilitate entry and residence of such beneficiaries in accordance with their own domestic legislation.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Locked