ESC
Welcome to immigrationboards.com!
Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
The reasons as told by the EC :mahdi wrote:can you please tell us more about the reasons for your rejection?
mno2uk wrote:The reasons as told by the EC :mahdi wrote:can you please tell us more about the reasons for your rejection?
1. He says they cant accept my FDs as proof of funds - when i asked the VFS ppl if i can and they sent a reply sayng that shd be original with a letter from the bank as the moderators also guide with the " proper language" that they can be liquidated and are as good as cash .. yet he says it cant be accepted as its not as per guidance .. well can someone tell them its free money andkept at a higher interest ! thats it .. its my free money and bank also says it ! whats the issue ?
2. The second is for my earnings .. says that they are less as per rules and i put in a letter from part time employment .. whcih they discounted off saying that the letter does not show the gross n net salary .. when the cover letter did show n say it all .. i made a table showing it both and the amounts were same as the payment was by cheque .. and so no gross n no net pay .. and Lord its my money again and it was paid !!! my bank says so and the letter says so .. whast the big deal ??
Is this a modus operandi for making more money by refusing ppl at random ? is that the govt looking at thru this ?? i dnt get it guys ..
WHY ME ???! !!
hsmpaspirant2008 wrote:If you genuinely feel that you had no reason to be refused and fulfilled all the criteria as per the guidance, you should appeal the decision.
mno2uk wrote:The reasons as told by the EC :mahdi wrote:can you please tell us more about the reasons for your rejection?
1. He says they cant accept my FDs as proof of funds - when i asked the VFS ppl if i can and they sent a reply sayng that shd be original with a letter from the bank as the moderators also guide with the " proper language" that they can be liquidated and are as good as cash .. yet he says it cant be accepted as its not as per guidance .. well can someone tell them its free money andkept at a higher interest ! thats it .. its my free money and bank also says it ! whats the issue ?
2. The second is for my earnings .. says that they are less as per rules and i put in a letter from part time employment .. whcih they discounted off saying that the letter does not show the gross n net salary .. when the cover letter did show n say it all .. i made a table showing it both and the amounts were same as the payment was by cheque .. and so no gross n no net pay .. and Lord its my money again and it was paid !!! my bank says so and the letter says so .. whast the big deal ??
Is this a modus operandi for making more money by refusing ppl at random ? is that the govt looking at thru this ?? i dnt get it guys ..
WHY ME ???! !!
For my Bank letter ( For fixed deposits) as was told by the VFS south india help desk :sushdmehta wrote:1. Did the letter from the bank say that you have held the money in the fixed deposit for 3 months? Did the letter contain every other information as detailed in para 198,199,200 and, particularly, 201(iii) of the Tier 1 Policy guidance.
2. What are the 2 evidences that you submitted as proof of income from part-time employment? One, I understand, is the bank statement ... but the other?
Could be cumbersome for you ... but it will help us understand the reasons better if you could spell out (verbatim) what the rejection letter the reasons for refusal were.
regards
sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards
Not denying it at all. But the policy guidance has been updated and clearly mentions the kind of accounts that can be used as evidence. This said, you might still find someone posting in the near future that he was successful with showing FDs ... because the guideline doesn't specifically say that term deposits are not accepted as evidence anymore and some caseworkers would deem it as acceptable evidence!!!mno2uk wrote: but then again there are several such cases that have been successful
If you believe a wrong decision has been taken in your case with respect to maintenance funds held in FDs, admin. review option is available to you. Email communication from VFS advising you of the same can be included in your review application to substantiate your claim.mno2uk wrote:sometng is wrong with the person that handled mine i guess..
Unfortunately, you cannot blame the caseworker for this! The letter clearly is not in line with what the policy guidance states regarding documentary evidence(s) accepted by UKBA as proof of salaried income. In my opinion, an admin. review will not change this decision.mno2uk wrote:The letter should state that i know and i tried to get the employer do it but i still did mention it in the cover letter:(
Oops ... That's a strong statement to make, given the fact that you're clearly amongst the advising community of the forum.aruni4470 wrote: The people who answer the queries seem to not have a clue of what they are advising and their wrong direction can ruin lives.
sushdmehta wrote:aruni4470 wrote: The people who answer the queries seem to not have a clue of what they are advising and their wrong direction can ruin lives.
That definitely makes sense!aruni4470 wrote:sushdmehta wrote:The people who answer the queries seem to not have a clue of what they are advising.
I was referring to the people in VFS, who answer queries by email.
Para 199 does not say that the funds must be held only in savings or current accounts. Funds can be held in cash in Bank (this includes (read, amongst other things) savings or current accounts):sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards
. Secondly, they are not fussed about notice period (pls see the text highlighted in red above). They wouldn't accept evidences of investment in instruments which can lead to change (drop) in value of the deposit like - pension funds, bonds, shares and mutual funds.199. The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable.
Thanks for highlighting the typo error I made inadvertantly. Hence have edited my posting above so as to not confuse others.push wrote:Para 199 does not say that the funds must be held only in savings or current accounts. Funds can be held in cash in Bank (this includes (read, amongst other things) savings or current accounts):sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards199. The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable.
). Hence, while the decision regarding evidence maintenance funds through FDs coule be overturned in an admin. review or a new application, I do not believe he will get a positive decision as far as evidence of income is concerned (with the same letter).Thank you for all the help Push, Mehta Saab..its a breather for me..push wrote:Para 199 does not say that the funds must be held only in savings or current accounts. Funds can be held in cash in Bank (this includes (read, amongst other things) savings or current accounts):sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards. Secondly, they are not fussed about notice period (pls see the text highlighted in red above). They wouldn't accept evidences of investment in instruments which can lead to change (drop) in value of the deposit like - pension funds, bonds, shares and mutual funds.199. The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable.
On the basis of the above, FD should be perfectly acceptable.
sushdmehta wrote:Thanks for highlighting the typo error I made inadvertantly. Hence have edited my posting above so as to not confuse others.push wrote:Para 199 does not say that the funds must be held only in savings or current accounts. Funds can be held in cash in Bank (this includes (read, amongst other things) savings or current accounts):sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards199. The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable.
In OP's case, the other issue is the employer letter not specifying the gross and net pay, which is clearly not as per guidelines (I hope I am not getting this wrong too
regards
The medium of salary disbursement - be it cheque or be it through bank transfers - is not the issue here. Be it a bank transfer or be it through a cheque, the salary that any employee receives is the "net" salary.mno2uk wrote: For gross/net pay - In my opinion - since the payment was by cheque from the employer and it was mentioned on the letter that it was - there is nothing like gross or net pay in that case since its a full n final settlement(by paper instrument as cheque) unlike salary(electronic bank credits with deductions etc) with a regular employer. So there were no deductions and hence nothing like a net pay coming out of it. And I strongly feel that it is implied
Alternatively i had mentioned it as a table type data for gross n net pay in the covering letter with it to support it. Also, every employer has there way of giving such letters/certificates and its upto them as an employee cannot make them mould it the way he/she wants them to.
Well thank you again..sushdmehta wrote:The medium of salary disbursement - be it cheque or be it through bank transfers - is not the issue here. Be it a bank transfer or be it through a cheque, the salary that any employee receives is the "net" salary.mno2uk wrote: For gross/net pay - In my opinion - since the payment was by cheque from the employer and it was mentioned on the letter that it was - there is nothing like gross or net pay in that case since its a full n final settlement(by paper instrument as cheque) unlike salary(electronic bank credits with deductions etc) with a regular employer. So there were no deductions and hence nothing like a net pay coming out of it. And I strongly feel that it is implied
Alternatively i had mentioned it as a table type data for gross n net pay in the covering letter with it to support it. Also, every employer has there way of giving such letters/certificates and its upto them as an employee cannot make them mould it the way he/she wants them to.
In absence of payslips the two possible documentary evidences that you can submit to prove these earnings (part-time employment) are -
a) bank statements (showing cheque deposits), and
b) letter from the employer in the prescribed format.
And, as you yourself agree, the letter from the emplyer is not in the prescribed format - as it does not mention the "gross" and the "net" salary.
One could question as to why UKBA is bothered about the "gross" pay when an applicant always proves his eligibility on basis of "net" pay itself when one of the 2 evidences being submitted is the bank statement. The bank statements never reflect the "gross" income of any applicant. It only reflects the actual money being paid to an employee - the "net" income! Hence, any applicant providing bank statments as one evidence should be given the right to submit the 2nd evidence which only reflects (and corroborates) the "net" salary. Right??
But the fact remains that Tier 1 assessment is based on certain parameters where the resonsibility of providing supporting documentary evidences as specified in the Tier 1 policy guidance lies with the applicant. It is defintely not based on or subject to the applicant's or the caseworker's individual inferences or opinion in the matter. Period!
I could argue:
1. Why is your employer reluctant to mention the "gross" salary in the letter? Is it because he was flouting income tax laws and therefore afraid that he may land in trouble?
2. Even if your "gross" salary was equal to the "net" salary, which is highly unlikely unless the sum total of your annual salary fell into the "non-taxable" income slab or unless the employer was saving your TDS component as his personal profit, why couldn't he mention the same amount separately as "gross" and "net" in the letter!
(Not implying that this will not raise a flag at UKBA).
3. If everyone who submits a letter from an employer as evidence can convince his/her employer to draft a letter as per the said requirements, then why couldn't you??
4. Any applicant can draft a letter and put in any gross salary as he wishes, but is that a valid proof that he was being paid that much by the employer??
regards
push wrote:Para 199 does not say that the funds must be held only in savings or current accounts. Funds can be held in cash in Bank (this includes (read, amongst other things) savings or current accounts):sushdmehta wrote:1. While VFS has (yet again) advised you that FDs are accepted as evidence of maintenance funds if accompanied with a supporting letter by the bank and I agree that the letter seems in order, the applicant must follow the guidelines by UKBA as the application assessment is done against those guidelines. I do notice that para 199 states that the funds must be held in savings or current accounts. AFAIK, this restriction is new and wasn't there earlier. Unfortunately, fixed term deposit, technically, is neither considered a savings account nor a current account UNLESS it is linked to either of such accounts (e.g. - smart money saver, savings linked FD etc.).
2. The Tier 1 policy guidance clearly states that the letter from the employer regarding salaried income must detail both gross and net pay (para 138(iii)).
regards. Secondly, they are not fussed about notice period (pls see the text highlighted in red above). They wouldn't accept evidences of investment in instruments which can lead to change (drop) in value of the deposit like - pension funds, bonds, shares and mutual funds.199. The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable.
On the basis of the above, FD should be perfectly acceptable.
