Unnecessary document requests by UKBA for EEA FP

[Trent]

It seems the UKBA goes far beyond the Directives set out by the EC asking many questions which are not necessary to establish the family tie of a non-EEA national.

Quoting 86ti from another thread:

If you decide to apply for an EEA FP you will have to fill out form VAF5 but be warned that it asks for many questions that you do no have to answer. All you should need is documentation proving the relationships and the passports. Nothing else, especially you do not have to declare why you want to come to the UK, how long you want to stay or if you have sufficient financial resources to support yourself and the family. The stay for the first three months is unconditional (except your passports and maybe the EEA FP). After that time you must be able to support the whole family.

My question is, has anyone been successful in obtaining the EEA FP without completing all the answers and providing all the extra documention they "require"?

[86ti]

I think Richard66 made the embassy in Rome issue his wife the EEA FP with giving them as little information as possible.

[Trent]

At the time of the application can they justify demanding for financial information by saying they need to know you will be able to suport yourself beyond 3 months?

The Immigration Regulations 2006 says they must issue an EEA FP if they third national member is joining me in the UK and:

(ii) [If the non-EEA] would meet the requirements in the immigration rules (other than those relating to entry clearance) for leave to enter the United Kingdom as the family member of the EEA national or, in the case of direct descendants or dependent direct relatives in the ascending line of his spouse or his civil partner, as the family member of his spouse or his civil partner, were the EEA national or the spouse or civil partner a person present and settled in the United Kingdom.

Do you know what these "requirements in the immigration rules" refers to? Those are the only conditions set out by the UK so a passport of each person, marriage certificate and documents to prove the relationship should be all that are needed, strictly nothing else. That is unless, the "requirements in the immigration rules" also refers to the financial situation and all the other stuff they need to know.

[86ti]

At the time of the application can they justify demanding for financial information by saying they need to know you will be able to suport yourself beyond 3 months?

As I said, I do not believe that a reason and/or length of ones stay have to be given. If you come as a jobseeker you may find a job within the first three months or maybe not. The ECO would obviously have to base the decision on making certain preassumptions. What would those be? That the applicant won't find work? You can be a jobseeker (make sure to keep track and register with the Jobcentre and maybe recruitment agencies) for at least six month, possibly longer if there is a "genuine" chance of employment.

Do you know what these "requirements in the immigration rules" refers to? Those are the only conditions set out by the UK so a passport of each person, marriage certificate and documents to prove the relationship should be all that are needed, strictly nothing else. That is unless, the "requirements in the immigration rules" also refers to the financial situation and all the other stuff they need to know.

I do not know what exactly they are referring to but I think the crucial bit is the part in paranthesis: "[requirements in the immigration rules] other than those relating to entry clearance".

[Trent]

I found this document here, submitted by a Richard from Italy, where the Commission states:

With regard to the supporting documents, as the third country family members’ right to obtain an entry visa is derived from the family ties only, Member States may only require them to present documents attesting to their identity and family ties with the EU citizen.

So it seems that they have no legal right to ask for extra documents.


Immigration regulations 2006 requirements for EEA FP:

(b) the family member will be accompanying the EEA national to the United Kingdom or joining him there and—

(i) is lawfully resident in an EEA State; or

(ii) would meet the requirements in the immigration rules (other than those relating to entry clearance)...

My wife is not "lawfully resident in an EEA State" therefore she would have to comply with part (ii). Which is why I ask for clarification. Also I thought that the Metock case had overuled part (i) and the whole previous lawful residence issue.

[86ti]

My wife is not "lawfully resident in an EEA State" therefore she would have to comply with part (ii). Which is why I ask for clarification. Also I thought that the Metock case had overuled part (i) and the whole previous lawful residence issue.

Yes, the Metock case makes this part(i) "obsolete".

[Pakhtoon]

It seems the UKBA goes far beyond the Directives set out by the EC asking many questions which are not necessary to establish the family tie of a non-EEA national.

Quoting 86ti from another thread:

If you decide to apply for an EEA FP you will have to fill out form VAF5 but be warned that it asks for many questions that you do no have to answer. All you should need is documentation proving the relationships and the passports. Nothing else, especially you do not have to declare why you want to come to the UK, how long you want to stay or if you have sufficient financial resources to support yourself and the family. The stay for the first three months is unconditional (except your passports and maybe the EEA FP). After that time you must be able to support the whole family.

My question is, has anyone been successful in obtaining the EEA FP without completing all the answers and providing all the extra documention they "require"?

UKBA wants to make sure the marriage is not just for securing entry to UK and hence they have every right to ask for documents, proof, interviews whatever and delay the application for as long as they deem fit.

Whats the problem ??

[Trent]

UKBA wants to make sure the marriage is not just for securing entry to UK and hence they have every right to ask for documents, proof, interviews whatever and delay the application for as long as they deem fit.

Whats the problem ??

That is no problem, they are entitled to do that, and only that.

If you had read the thread carefully instead of jumping to conclusions, you would have understood that.

[Pakhtoon]

UKBA wants to make sure the marriage is not just for securing entry to UK and hence they have every right to ask for documents, proof, interviews whatever and delay the application for as long as they deem fit.

Whats the problem ??

That is no problem, they are entitled to do that, and only that.

Then what unnecessary documents are they asking for ? I suppose you are filling out the online form wherein the system won't go to the next step unless you provide the answers to all the questions on the page, and it doesn't take more than a few minutes.

[Trent]

Then what unnecessary documents are they asking for ? I suppose you are filling out the online form wherein the system won't go to the next step unless you provide the answers to all the questions on the page, and it doesn't take more than a few minutes.

Apart from the passports of the applicant, EEA sponsor and proof of the relationship between the two, all requests for supportive documents go beyond the directive of the EC and are not required. That is all.

[MAKUSA]

Then what unnecessary documents are they asking for ? I suppose you are filling out the online form wherein the system won't go to the next step unless you provide the answers to all the questions on the page, and it doesn't take more than a few minutes.

Apart from the passports of the applicant, EEA sponsor and proof of the relationship between the two, all requests for supportive documents go beyond the directive of the EC and are not required. That is all.

Spot on mate, they ask for documents that go far beyond the Directive requirements, bunch of tossers.

[Pakhtoon]

Then what unnecessary documents are they asking for ? I suppose you are filling out the online form wherein the system won't go to the next step unless you provide the answers to all the questions on the page, and it doesn't take more than a few minutes.

Apart from the passports of the applicant, EEA sponsor and proof of the relationship between the two, all requests for supportive documents go beyond the directive of the EC and are not required. That is all.

Which country you are applying from ?

[Richard66]

We did just what the Directive says: we provided MASSIVE proof of relationship, which included photographs, letters from witnesses and a certificate of pregnancy. Funnily enough we forgot to provide the marriage certificate! We wrote a cover letter, letting them know that we knew the law backwards. Where questions were not pertinent and we could avoid giving information we wrote: "NOT REQUIRED FROM EEA FAMILY MEMBERS".

In 10 days the EEA FP was delivered.

[Trent]

We did just what the Directive says: we provided MASSIVE proof of relationship, which included photographs, letters from witnesses and a certificate of pregnancy. Funnily enough we forgot to provide the marriage certificate! We wrote a cover letter, letting them know that we knew the law backwards. Where questions were not pertinent and we could avoid giving information we wrote: "NOT REQUIRED FROM EEA FAMILY MEMBERS".

In 10 days the EEA FP was delivered.

Thanks for the info. I see that the embassy in Rome also requests that you go through worldbridge services, did you do that or just submit your application direct to the embassy (presumably you used the VAF5 form)?

EDIT: Which reminds me, is my wife going to be asked to submit biometric data as their application guidelines seem to imply? Surely that would be against EU law too.

[Richard66]

We had to use that incompetent Wordbridge. They know as much about visas as a dim-witted chicken does.

I have been agitating with my MP that citizens ought to have access to the visa section and not be onliged to pass though this company. I simply refuse to pay for a service which should be free.

[Trent]

We had to use that incompetent Wordbridge. They know as much about visas as a dim-witted chicken does.

How did you submit a written document to write NOT REQUIRED FROM EEA FAMILY MEMBERS? They ask me to fill in an online interrogation.

Were you required to submit biometric data as their application guidelines seem to imply? Surely that would be against EU law too.

[Richard66]

Easy: "Please give us an address in the UK": INFORMATION NOT REQUIRED."

Yes, my wife had to sumit to that too.

[86ti]

We had to use that incompetent Wordbridge. They know as much about visas as a dim-witted chicken does.

They clearly say that themselves https://www.visainfoservices.com/Pages/Welcome.aspx (towards the bottom of the page).

[Trent]

Ok thanks. I was imagining red felt tip pen writing!

[Richard66]

How can one have advice if the visa section is closed to the public, faxes e-mails are not answered, telephone calls are not accepted and those **** of Worldbridge know nothing?

[Richard66]

Ok thanks. I was imagining red felt tip pen writing!

The answers to gentle questions, such as, "have you ever commited genocide?" were always in the negative, so there was no ploblem there.

How can they allow themselves even to dream of asking things like that?

[Trent]

Ok thanks. I was imagining red felt tip pen writing!

The answers to gentle questions, such as, "have you ever commited genocide?" were always in the negative, so there was no ploblem there.

How can they allow themselves even to dream of asking things like that?

It's frankly ridiculous.

Unfortunately the urgency with which I need the document will limit the scope I have for refusing to follow their guidelines. I'm guessing refusing to submit fingerprints will be a no go. I'd then have to submit a complaint to Solvit and wait for responses. I'm astounded that the EU hasn't made the UK to get back into line yet. This isn't the first complaint they've received, there are dozens submitted to the EC.

[Richard66]

Ok thanks. I was imagining red felt tip pen writing!

The answers to gentle questions, such as, "have you ever commited genocide?" were always in the negative, so there was no ploblem there.

How can they allow themselves even to dream of asking things like that?

It's frankly ridiculous.

Unfortunately the urgency with which I need the document will limit the scope I have for refusing to follow their guidelines. I'm guessing refusing to submit fingerprints will be a no go. I'd then have to submit a complaint to Solvit and wait for responses. I'm astounded that the EU hasn't made the UK to get back into line yet. This isn't the first complaint they've received, there are dozens submitted to the EC.

Don't tell me: I have been contacting the Embassy, the European Commission, the European Parliament, my MP, the Minister for Immigration, David Cameron, but nothing seems to work, but I keep trying. In fact, I let David Cameron know that the European Commission is envisaging (and it is) to commence procedures against the UK.