filing appeal...certain queries...please help!!!

[pvattorney]

Hi! Got my settlement visa refused yesterday in 2 weeks and now planning to file an appeal. Got a few basic queries. Please respond at the earliest so I can file my appeal in time.

1. In the appeal form AIT-2, can I nominate my husband as both my sponsor and my representative if we do not want to hire a professional representative?

2. What is better to ask for? Paper hearing or oral hearing?

3. Is my appeal reviewed first by the Entry Clearance Manager only if I opt for a paper hearing? Or does he also review my appeal first if I have asked for an oral hearing?

4. Am I intimated if the Entry Clearance Manager has not overturned the Entry Clearance Officer's decision and when he is sending it to the Tribunal?

5. Can I then change from paper hearing to a oral hearing? How do I do that?

Thanks so much for reviewing this. Look forward to getting your responses.

[batleykhan]

Hi! Got my settlement visa refused yesterday in 2 weeks and now planning to file an appeal. Got a few basic queries. Please respond at the earliest so I can file my appeal in time.

1. In the appeal form AIT-2, can I nominate my husband as both my sponsor and my representative if we do not want to hire a professional representative?

Yes you can

2. What is better to ask for? Paper hearing or oral hearing?

Oral Hearing

3. Is my appeal reviewed first by the Entry Clearance Manager only if I opt for a paper hearing? Or does he also review my appeal first if I have asked for an oral hearing?

Both

4. Am I intimated if the Entry Clearance Manager has not overturned the Entry Clearance Officer's decision and when he is sending it to the Tribunal?

No

5. Can I then change from paper hearing to a oral hearing? How do I do that?

Yes , by writting to AIT in UK

Thanks so much for reviewing this. Look forward to getting your responses.

Hope that helps

[pvattorney]

Hi!

Thanks so much for your response. Do you have some standard language format that I should use in my grounds of appeal in the appeal form AIT-2?

Also the ECO has refused my application by only giving the Immigration Rules under which he has refused it. However he has given absolutely no reasons of his refusal which seems very strange.

We had provided so much of proof with our previous application and had not missed out on anything.

But it appears that he has not looked at any single supporting document, photographs, nothing that we have provided and just randomly refused my application. That is why we have nothing new to give in my appeal as we had provided so much proof in my previous application.

I have read somewhere that the ECM reverses the refusal decision only if I submit additional docs. The thing is that we submitted so much in our previous application that we have absolutely nothing new to give at the appeal stage. Will this affect my appeal?

That is why I am so frustrated. That inspite of providing so much my application got refused again and without any reasons.

[batleykhan]

Nothing is refused without a valid reason.

State the reasons as per the refusal notice before people can give opinion on the matter

[batleykhan]

I have just remembered who you are now. The above is pointless if your time of appeal has run out. I think yours have.

You have 28 days to lodge your appeal to the BHC or AIT after receiving the refusal notice

[pvattorney]

Hi! Yeah u right, since the last time we spoke, since time had run out I re-applied. And it was very quick..within 2 weeks I was refused again. Briefly I sent out all this with my application:

1. Our bank statements (last 6 months)
2. our fixed deposit certificates, shares investment statement and other savings statements showing we have a lot of of savings
3. husband's employer's letter, P60, 6 months pay slips
4. husband's mortgage deed, utilities' bills, house photographs, property survey report copy, land transaction return certificate, mortgage statements
5. evidence that we have met and that we are in constant contact with each other: husband's certified true copies of his british passport with his immigration stamps copies and airline tickets showing his travel to india 4 times for a holiday when we first met, for our engagement, for our marriage and to surprise me on my b'day, my phone bill records since feb 2009 till date, his international calling card records, skype chat history, our emails, our engagement photos in india, engagement party banquet hall receipts, our photos taken at my friends house at a party, our honeymoon photos, photos of his trip to india after our marriage in jan '10 for my birthday
6. relationship proof: our original marriage certificate, marriage photos (we had 2 marriage ceremonies, 1 simple ceremony and 1 elaborate ceremony), reception party photos, wedding invitation cards from both our parents, wedding caterer's and decorators bills, emails from our friends with congratulatory messages both for engagement and wedding
7. age proof: both our birth certificates (I am 28 and husband is 30), my driving license and income tax card copies and my husband's OCI card copies and our passports further evidencing our dates of birth
8. my university education certificates showing my education in the english language

basically after being rejected earlier, this time we had studied all the Immigration Rules and we had given supporting documents to cover every single immigration rule.

And 2 weeks later they come back saying they are not satisifed that we meet all of the requirements of para 277 and 281 of Immigration Rules so I refuse your application.

And they just quote the 2 Immigration Rules:

which is:
277 - we are under 21 years of age and
281 - not met, dont have accomodation, have never met, dont have enough income to support ourselves, not married to a person present and settled in UK

This was the decision. They did not give any explanation or reason why they believe that we have not satisfied these Rules.

The funny thing is that my first application which was refused under the same Immigration Rules, 277 and 281. But they had given detailed reasons of why they refused my application...basically we had only given our marriage certificate and not other proof. So they had given the reason that we are not satisfied that your husband was in india at the time of your marriage and that u have ever met.

That is why in this application we gave so much proof that he was in india and that we have met and that we are above 21 years. But still we get refused on the same grounds.

Looks like they have not looked at any of the evidence that we had given. That is why I am thinking where we went wrong???

So this is so frustrating and now its been only 2 days since the refusal so we are definitly going in for appeal.

I have just remembered who you are now. The above is pointless if your time of appeal has run out. I think yours have.

You have 28 days to lodge your appeal to the BHC or AIT after receiving the refusal notice

[batleykhan]

Hi Pvattorney

I hope someone will help you, because I am fed of up asking you the same question, but you never seem to answer it in full and that is for you to give us the full facts of your refusal.

WE WANT THE FULL REASONS GIVEN IN THE REFUSAL LETTER NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE BEEN REFUSED FOR

I am sorry but either I am stupid, or the reasons you give for your refusals just doesnt make sense.They simply do not refuse you and give the reasons like you have stated. They give full reasons. If you care to tell us those then somebody will help you

Good luck to you

[pvattorney]

Hi!

I am quoting the Reasons for Refusal as given in my Refusal Notice.

"The Entry Clearance Officer's reasons and supporting evidence

UK Border Agency and the British Deputy High Commission provides information to the visa applicants about the types of documents they will be required to produce so that they can demonstrate to the visa officer that they meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules. We advise applicants that failure to submit such documentation may result in refusal of the application. This decision has been made on the basis of the evidence that you have supplied. The onus is on applicants to demonstrate that they meet the requirements of the relevant rules. You have declared that the information you have provided is complete and true to the best of your knowledge. I have carefully considered your application on the basis of your passport, application form and the documents you have provided. It has not been necessary to interview you in order to reach a decision. I therefore refuse your application".


This is it. No reason of why he thinks I am not in compliance of the relevant Immigration Rules 277 and 281.

Can I apply and appeal at the same time? So should I send my originals with my application or appeal?

Thanks

Hi Pvattorney

I hope someone will help you, because I am fed of up asking you the same question, but you never seem to answer it in full and that is for you to give us the full facts of your refusal.

WE WANT THE FULL REASONS GIVEN IN THE REFUSAL LETTER NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE BEEN REFUSED FOR

I am sorry but either I am stupid, or the reasons you give for your refusals just doesnt make sense.They simply do not refuse you and give the reasons like you have stated. They give full reasons. If you care to tell us those then somebody will help you

Good luck to you

[Kitty]

pvattorney, the wording you have posted is just the first standard paragraph in a refusal notice, except that I would expect to see some additional words in the last line referring to the Rules themselves. You said you had been refused under Paragraphs 281 and 277 but you don't mention them in the quite.

After the paragraph you quote, there is then usually a summary of "detailed reasons".

Can you confirm there is really nothing other than the paragraph you've reproduced here? Have you received only the first page of a multi-page document, for example (sounds silly but happens to me more often that I would like to admit )

[Kitty]

It does sound very weird that all you got was that paragraph. Did they send your docs back to you?

You don't need your original docs just to make the appeal. To be honest, I would fill in the appeal form and send it in to the office where the decision was made. Enclose a statement or letter referring to the original documents, and stating that you can't address the refusal in full without knowing the ECO's reasons.

Say on the form you want an "oral hearing": that would be held here - presumably your spouse could attend. You can always re-submit copy documents if you need to go as far as a hearing.

Even if you just want to reapply, I think it's worthwhile just getting a proper reason for this refusal (you need to refer to it in the application form!).