We're creating a facial rod for our own back by failing to a

[IrishTom]

Yet it is not all that surprising, really. Dail Eireann has never had a single debate on immigration. Not one. Real grown-ups discuss what is happening around them. But not here: either through rank cowardice, politically correct conformism or habitual Hibernian laziness, our elected representatives have chosen never to talk about the greatest demographic change in Ireland since independence…

Well, we could be well on the way to creating a multi-ethnic, multicultural, multiracial dystopia. The evidence from the head teachers before the Oireachtas Committee was terrifying: Tony McGinley, principal of St John the Evangelist of Adamstown, said that schools were dealing with "cultural differences that they did not fully know or understand, including discipline issues, and in some instances, complicated further by tribal differences from within the one country".


Tribal differences from within the one country: what on earth were we doing allowing such people to come here? What possible benefit could we derive from having some of the pleasures of downtown Lagos being relocated to west Dublin? And how could we have allowed this to happen, without Dail Eireann ever discussing it, even once?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum ... 66259.html

Well said, Kevin. Well said.

[Southern_Sky]

Correctomundo Senor!
Never has a truer article been written by Kevin Myers. There's no denying the facts, that the facial demographics of Ireland are changed forever. Much like Britain in the 50' & 60's. It was only a matter of time in Ireland with Globalisation, Economic Prosperity & céad míle fáilte policy of successive Irish governments.

Even if, tomorrow, the most conservative of governments & immigration policy were to be voted in & implemented, the fact remains is there is no reversal of the melting-pot that Ireland has already become.
Even in the throws of the deepest economic meltdown in Irish history, the majority of legal non-EU migrants would prefer to stay here, not only because they have now planted roots, started families, have investments here but also compared to the comparatively & consistently worst situation back home in their Third-World / Developing countries.

Being the 'quintessentially native' & rightfully proud Irishman that you are....Its only natural for you to feel the way you do through a period of such dramatic change in your country's history...and as such entitled to have your say true free speech using whatever forums/outlets/avenues to express your objections, criticisms, rants etc.. backed up by mostly valid statistics.

But, at the end of the day and inspite of the sometimes constructive arguments on these forums, there is only one way forward now for Ireland....and its clearly stated the the very title of that Kevin Myers article.
Integration, Integration, Integration and proper use of the best examples of the many developed nations around the globe that has gone through the demographic change that Ireland is now experiencing, granted it was over centuries & not in a single decade But any new government policy should include policies that learn from the mistakes of a lack of proper integration in other countries. eg. Muslims in the Netherlands, Somalians in Scandinavia, Turks in Deutschland (more than 3 generations), the Humans on Pandora etc... etc...

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...hopefully an Ireland they can be finally be considered equal & fully integrated. But that process of education, acceptance & integration in all levels of society has to start now. Else the repercussions are well-documented by good 'ole straight-talking Kevin Myers.

Nothing stays the same, the only constant is change, and success is determined by how best one accepts it & adapts to it.

Perhaps much like the proposals being submitted on 'Your Country, Your Call' : http://www.yourcountryyourcall.com/index.html submissions can be made on best to proceed with such integration in Ireland.

[Darkhorse]

Correctomundo Senor!
Never has a truer article been written by Kevin Myers. There's no denying the facts, that the facial demographics of Ireland are changed forever. Much like Britain in the 50' & 60's. It was only a matter of time in Ireland with Globalisation, Economic Prosperity & céad míle fáilte policy of successive Irish governments.

Even if, tomorrow, the most conservative of governments & immigration policy were to be voted in & implemented, the fact remains is there is no reversal of the melting-pot that Ireland has already become.
Even in the throws of the deepest economic meltdown in Irish history, the majority of legal non-EU migrants would prefer to stay here, not only because they have now planted roots, started families, have investments here but also compared to the comparatively & consistently worst situation back home in their Third-World / Developing countries.

Being the 'quintessentially native' & rightfully proud Irishman that you are....Its only natural for you to feel the way you do through a period of such dramatic change in your country's history...and as such entitled to have your say true free speech using whatever forums/outlets/avenues to express your objections, criticisms, rants etc.. backed up by mostly valid statistics.

But, at the end of the day and inspite of the sometimes constructive arguments on these forums, there is only one way forward now for Ireland....and its clearly stated the the very title of that Kevin Myers article.
Integration, Integration, Integration and proper use of the best examples of the many developed nations around the globe that has gone through the demographic change that Ireland is now experiencing, granted it was over centuries & not in a single decade But any new government policy should include policies that learn from the mistakes of a lack of proper integration in other countries. eg. Muslims in the Netherlands, Somalians in Scandinavia, Turks in Deutschland (more than 3 generations), the Humans on Pandora etc... etc...

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...hopefully an Ireland they can be finally be considered equal & fully integrated. But that process of education, acceptance & integration in all levels of society has to start now. Else the repercussions are well-documented by good 'ole straight-talking Kevin Myers.

Nothing stays the same, the only constant is change, and success is determined by how best one accepts it & adapts to it.

Perhaps much like the proposals being submitted on 'Your Country, Your Call' : http://www.yourcountryyourcall.com/index.html submissions can be made on best to proceed with such integration in Ireland.

@Southern_Sky..... you are 100% correct.

@IrishTom.... you seems to dislike the foreigner so much. Event though some of those and been permitted to remain here. Some of those may have citizenship. I am sure you are aware some countries only allow 1 citizenship (e.g China). If a Chinese has been granted citizenship here, it is no longer possible for this individual to go back to China because he/she is foreigner in their own original country.

As Southern_sky said, the only way forward is integration. Believe me, majority of foreigner in Ireland will try to remain here for better or for worst.

[homingpigeon]

I have been following your trolling posts on this forum Irish Tom. In some instances you're funny but most of the time I find you gutless. Its all too easy to pick on people that are looking for help re-immigration. Like an e-thug or a comedian picking on disabled people. Most OP's don't have a great handle on the English language and would not know how to respond back to you. Keep it up champ, because most other people have lives hobbies and on this forum you feel like a winner!

[MAKUSA]

I have been following your trolling posts on this forum Irish Tom. In some instances you're funny but most of the time I find you gutless. Its all too easy to pick on people that are looking for help re-immigration. Like an e-thug or a comedian picking on disabled people. Most OP's don't have a great handle on the English language and would not know how to respond back to you. Keep it up champ, because most other people have lives hobbies and on this forum you feel like a winner!

Irish Tom is a raving lunatic and is in desperate need of a loony asylum. He can make all the noise but it aint going to change a thing. The Irish aint exactly staying in their country and Kevin Myers is a deluded nonentity and a dearly beloved.

[Darkhorse]

no comment

[victor8600]

... Dail Eireann has never had a single debate on immigration. Not one. ....

Well, we could be well on the way to creating a multi-ethnic, multicultural, multiracial dystopia. ...

Nah, it will be just grand! Surely, nothing like immigrant ghettoes on the outskirts of Paris can possibly exist in Dublin

[IrishTom]

... Dail Eireann has never had a single debate on immigration. Not one. ....

Well, we could be well on the way to creating a multi-ethnic, multicultural, multiracial dystopia. ...

Nah, it will be just grand! Surely, nothing like immigrant ghettoes on the outskirts of Paris can possibly exist in Dublin

I note your location, Vic. Hope you are being sarcastic.....

[IrishTom]

Irish Tom is a raving lunatic and is in desperate need of a loony asylum.

Last time you challenged me, you said you agreed with my points. What changed over the past few weeks?

[IrishTom]

Correctomundo Senor!
Never has a truer article been written by Kevin Myers. There's no denying the facts, that the facial demographics of Ireland are changed forever. Much like Britain in the 50' & 60's. It was only a matter of time in Ireland with Globalisation, Economic Prosperity & céad míle fáilte policy of successive Irish governments.

No country, post WW2 has seen such a change in the demographics. None what so ever. What is even more scandalous, is that the people of Ireland were never considered or asked to voice their opinion. Nobody voted for mass immigration.

Even if, tomorrow, the most conservative of governments & immigration policy were to be voted in & implemented, the fact remains is there is no reversal of the melting-pot that Ireland has already become.

I agree to a certain extent, those who are legally in the Irish state should be allowed to remain for as long as they so wish. But then there is those who used unscrupulous methods of entering the state. Those on dodgy language school visas, those who have partaken in marriages of conveinience, those who submitted bogus asylum claims and those whom are simply illegally in the state. All can, and indeed should, be repatriated.

Even in the throws of the deepest economic meltdown in Irish history, the majority of legal non-EU migrants would prefer to stay here, not only because they have now planted roots, started families, have investments here but also compared to the comparatively & consistently worst situation back home in their Third-World / Developing countries.

Those legal non EU immigrants whom have been issued with work permits, have been issued with just that, a work permit. Not leave to remain. We should adopt the methods of Australia and Canada. Once your work permit or visa runs out, slan abhaile.

Being the 'quintessentially native' & rightfully proud Irishman that you are....Its only natural for you to feel the way you do through a period of such dramatic change in your country's history...and as such entitled to have your say true free speech using whatever forums/outlets/avenues to express your objections, criticisms, rants etc.. backed up by mostly valid statistics.

Thank you.

But, at the end of the day and inspite of the sometimes constructive arguments on these forums, there is only one way forward now for Ireland....and its clearly stated the the very title of that Kevin Myers article.....

Which is.......

Integration, Integration, Integration and proper use of the best examples of the many developed nations around the globe that has gone through the demographic change that Ireland is now experiencing, granted it was over centuries & not in a single decade But any new government policy should include policies that learn from the mistakes of a lack of proper integration in other countries. eg. Muslims in the Netherlands, Somalians in Scandinavia, Turks in Deutschland (more than 3 generations), the Humans on Pandora etc... etc...

I agree 100%. But we are already seeing instances of ghettoisation.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0211/schools.html

The principals of multi-ethnic schools say 'ghettoisation' is taking root among newcomer communities in Ireland.

They have warned of apathy and disengagement developing among the children of immigrants as a result of recent cuts in English language services in their schools.

Five school principals appeared before told the Dáil's Joint Committee on Education this morning.

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...hopefully an Ireland they can be finally be considered equal & fully integrated. But that process of education, acceptance & integration in all levels of society has to start now. Else the repercussions are well-documented by good 'ole straight-talking Kevin Myers.

We already have repeated the same mistakes, we already have. The time for debate was ten years ago. The horse has long since bolted.

Perhaps much like the proposals being submitted on 'Your Country, Your Call' : http://www.yourcountryyourcall.com/index.html submissions can be made on best to proceed with such integration in Ireland.

Yes, I am aware of the site. Great idea.

[walrusgumble]

Correctomundo Senor!
Never has a truer article been written by Kevin Myers. There's no denying the facts, that the facial demographics of Ireland are changed forever. Much like Britain in the 50' & 60's. It was only a matter of time in Ireland with Globalisation, Economic Prosperity & céad míle fáilte policy of successive Irish governments.

Even if, tomorrow, the most conservative of governments & immigration policy were to be voted in & implemented, the fact remains is there is no reversal of the melting-pot that Ireland has already become.
Even in the throws of the deepest economic meltdown in Irish history, the majority of legal non-EU migrants would prefer to stay here, not only because they have now planted roots, started families, have investments here but also compared to the comparatively & consistently worst situation back home in their Third-World / Developing countries.

Being the 'quintessentially native' & rightfully proud Irishman that you are....Its only natural for you to feel the way you do through a period of such dramatic change in your country's history...and as such entitled to have your say true free speech using whatever forums/outlets/avenues to express your objections, criticisms, rants etc.. backed up by mostly valid statistics.

But, at the end of the day and inspite of the sometimes constructive arguments on these forums, there is only one way forward now for Ireland....and its clearly stated the the very title of that Kevin Myers article.
Integration, Integration, Integration and proper use of the best examples of the many developed nations around the globe that has gone through the demographic change that Ireland is now experiencing, granted it was over centuries & not in a single decade But any new government policy should include policies that learn from the mistakes of a lack of proper integration in other countries. eg. Muslims in the Netherlands, Somalians in Scandinavia, Turks in Deutschland (more than 3 generations), the Humans on Pandora etc... etc...

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...hopefully an Ireland they can be finally be considered equal & fully integrated. But that process of education, acceptance & integration in all levels of society has to start now. Else the repercussions are well-documented by good 'ole straight-talking Kevin Myers.

Nothing stays the same, the only constant is change, and success is determined by how best one accepts it & adapts to it.

Perhaps much like the proposals being submitted on 'Your Country, Your Call' : http://www.yourcountryyourcall.com/index.html submissions can be made on best to proceed with such integration in Ireland.

@Southern_Sky..... you are 100% correct.

@IrishTom.... you seems to dislike the foreigner so much. Event though some of those and been permitted to remain here. Some of those may have citizenship. I am sure you are aware some countries only allow 1 citizenship (e.g China). If a Chinese has been granted citizenship here, it is no longer possible for this individual to go back to China because he/she is foreigner in their own original country.

As Southern_sky said, the only way forward is integration. Believe me, majority of foreigner in Ireland will try to remain here for better or for worst.

No one is forcing a chinese national to take up the Irish Citizenship in the first place. They could always seek permanent/long term residency and after 8 years seek residency without conditions. Its a small price to pay, when you consider the additional bonus of EU citizensip.Most chinese knew about those risks the second they sent in the application

Irish Tom's previous comments show some or at least preceive to show some concern /dislikes about immigration in Ireland. But some concerns are valid. For most part, most immigrants are ordinary decent, peacful and hard working people. how ever, like all nations (including our own irish diaspora world wide) there are some rotten apples who bring sham on their countries. For most part many immigrants want to be part of Irish life but feel left out (helps when the Dail don't need to worry about them as they can't vote for the dail) however, there are many values and attitudes in say eg, lagos, we in the western world, whether the prejudices are true or false, can not and will not accept. Some immigrants may consider themselves to be discriminated on such and brand it dearly beloved etc, but they should should get use to it as they would know well in advance the country's position. same goes for the irish if they went to say dubai

To say it would be impossible to go back to China is nonsense. Like any other non Chinese person they would have to go through the hassle of visas. Though, the Chinese born person may be treated with a bit of suspicion. Its a long way to travel so its not like they will be going over and back every year. But that is their laws and not for us to decide.There is no guarantee that those laws will always remain the same as china is now opening up

[IrishTom]

however, there are many values and attitudes in say eg, lagos, we in the western world, whether the prejudices are true or false, can not and will not accept. Some immigrants may consider themselves to be discriminated on such and brand it dearly beloved etc, but they should should get use to it as they would know well in advance the country's position.

Your words reminded me of the Igbinedion case where the judge told the jury to forget about their "white, western, christian values".

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1007/igbinediono.html

[walrusgumble]

however, there are many values and attitudes in say eg, lagos, we in the western world, whether the prejudices are true or false, can not and will not accept. Some immigrants may consider themselves to be discriminated on such and brand it dearly beloved etc, but they should should get use to it as they would know well in advance the country's position.

Your words reminded me of the Igbinedion case where the judge told the jury to forget about their "white, western, christian values".

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1007/igbinediono.html

Its matters like that one in the RTE link that can not be expected to be allowed to continue in this country without proper procedure/laws in place. Certain cultures are not accepted in places like Ireland (eg marriage of more than 1 wife) and the immigrant can not expect this country or others like it to bend over and apply this. (not saying by the way that immigrants are insisting on same)remember the nonsense with the reserve garda and their uniform

[smalltime]

Those legal non EU immigrants whom have been issued with work permits, have been issued with just that, a work permit. Not leave to remain. We should adopt the methods of Australia and Canada. Once your work permit or visa runs out, slan abhaile.

Irishtom I had a work permit before and after 7 years I have long term residency. I have an Irish born son Irish passport only but not white Irish like you! i have a good job as an engineer.

what do i do now? go home? is that what you want me to do?
coz my irish boss seems to be very very happy with my services,
as well as the irish tax system

[IrishTom]

That IBC scheme was a curse. That loophole should have been closed off long before the referendum.

[IrishTom]

.............

How do you know I am white? Please stop bringing race into the equation. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the numbers.

[smalltime]

.............

How do you know I am white? Please stop bringing race into the equation. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the numbers.

ur are not white? are you transparent or something hahaha
becoz original irish supposed to be caucasians right? not like naturalised irish different color white,black,yellow (depends how long exposure to the sun really, blame mother nature hehehe) im brown thus that make a difference? i pay tax too.

so for example i got naturalisation will you accept me as irish? does it matter?

by the way irishtom i got my stamp 4 long term residency due to working permit for 5years not ibc. if i went to usa, uk canada they should have given it to me faster anyway! no regrets though encountering people like you make me laugh.

[sovtek]

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...

It'll defo make the Irish people as a whole a lot more attractive if nothing else. The gene pool here needs some serious improvement.

[IrishTom]

It'll defo make the Irish people as a whole a lot more attractive if nothing else. The gene pool here needs some serious improvement.

Says the yank.........

[walrusgumble]

If you're complaining & think its 'bad' now...just imagine Ireland in 20 years when the children of the Celtic Tiger's EU & non-EU migrants are all out of school, and about to have kids of their own... a 3rd generation born & bred on the Emerald Isle...

It'll defo make the Irish people as a whole a lot more attractive if nothing else. The gene pool here needs some serious improvement.

ha good one, not a tad bit dearly beloved? (what ever that means now a days) Looks aren't every thing you know! (throws silk scarf over to one side of the shoulder dramatically) By the way, "Emerald Isle" is a wee bit condensending and annoying

Still, if it improves Irish sporting success, I see no problems

[IrishTom]

Still, if it improves Irish sporting success, I see no problems

Sure who cares if we will have future multi ethnic riots, as long as we get a second generation immigrant sports star. The Italians probably said the same last month.

Milan's deputy mayor, Riccardo De Corato, called the area a "Wild West between north African and South American gangs."

Police said they had identified more than 30 people involved, most of them Egyptian. Ten Egyptians did not have regular residence permits, and four have been detained.

They were still searching for the South Americans believed to have been responsible for the killing, which they said took place after an argument on a city bus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61D0RI20100214