Will 10 years social welfare affect citizenship application?

[vladic]

Two friends arrived in Ireland from eastern europe (non EU) in 1999, and claimed asylum at the port. They had an Irish-born child in the mid 2000s and have been on the temporary leave to remain scheme for parents of Irish born.

They have also been on social welfare/rent allowance/medical card etc since the day they arrived, and are currently waiting for a council house.

They haven't been in any trouble with the gardai other than minor motoring offences and domestic disturbance, but nothing has gone to court.

They want to apply for citizenship - will their social welfare record affect their application?

[IrishTom]

Are you taking the p*ss? Ten years on the scratch and they want citizenship?

[jhbmike]

Two friends arrived in Ireland from eastern europe (non EU) in 1999, and claimed asylum at the port. The had an Irish-born child in the mid 90s and have been on the temporary leave to remain sheme for parents of Irish born.

They have also been on social welfare/rent allowance/medical card etc since the day they arrived, and are currently waiting for a council house.

They haven't been in any trouble with the gardai other than minor motoring offences and domestic disturbance, but nothing has gone to court.

They want to apply for citizenship - will their social welfare record affect their application?

They should get it. Its only if you have a speeding ticket that they will refuse you. Come on bro, this is the funniest thing ive heard all day.

[sideshowsue]

It's a bit early for April Fool's jokes, isn't it?

[vladic]

It's actually a serious question.

If they apply for citizenship, what are they likely to be told?

[AShawna]

It's actually a serious question.

If they apply for citizenship, what are they likely to be told?

Seriously????

[sideshowsue]

It's actually a serious question.

If they apply for citizenship, what are they likely to be told?

Serious question? All right, then. Here's a serious answer: No, it's very unlikely they will be granted citizenship since they've failed miserably on the 'Not being a burden on the Irish State' requirement. 10 years in Ireland and they haven't paid a cent in income and PRSI tax. Instead, they've spent 10 years in Ireland on the dime of many currently financially stretched and beleaguered tax payers.

The Minister of Justice has been spouting tripe for years and has justified the delays and lack of transparency in the naturalisation process with the view that 'Naturalisation is a privilege, not a right.' So if we are to take the minister at his word and apply it to the present circumstances of your friends, well, it's quite simple. They've done nothing to earn the privilege of being Irish. So when they submit an application for a certificate, it would be, in my view, wholly justifiable for their application to be rejected forthwith.

[vladic]

Thanks for the answer. Regardless of what the outcome should be, is that what it is likely to be?

Would occasionally working part-time (ie 20 hours a week, to keep welfare entitlements) help their case?

Also if citizenship is declined, what then? Can they wait a few more years and apply again? They're hardly likely to be deported, given then have an Irish-born?

[IrishTom]

Would occasionally working part-time (ie 20 hours a week, to keep welfare entitlements) help their case?

So they can work they just chose to leech instead? We have enough scammers, thanks. They should be repatriated with haste.

[Monifé]

So they can work they just chose to leech instead? We have enough scammers, thanks. They should be repatriated with haste.

As much as I hate IrishTom's ramblings, I must agree with him on this one. This just gives genuine asylum seekers/refugees a bad name. On social welfare, rent allowance etc etc for over 10 years, that is just crazy!!!! Fine to maybe be on it until their kids reach the age of primary schooling, but after that, nothing was stopping them getting a job, especially in the boom. That is a disgrace to be on the dole for that long.

I dont think they should/will be given citizenship, as they have been a burden on the state the whole time they're here, and that is major factor in any citizenship application!!

[vladic]

I don't really want to get away from the point, they have just made use of the system that was presented to them. They have a good life: two cars, foreign holidays, mobile phones, games consoles and plasma TV etc. So why not? Their standard of living is higher than mine!

I'm not interested in judging - I just want to know what is the likelihood of citizenship, and what are the alternatives.

[SBT_Owner]

I don't really want to get away from the point, they have just made use of the system that was presented to them. They have a good life: two cars, foreign holidays, mobile phones, games consoles and plasma TV etc. So why not? Their standard of living is higher than mine!

I'm not interested in judging - I just want to know what is the likelihood of citizenship, and what are the alternatives.

I fear this is a troll guys . Well done to those that smelt the troll early on

[vladic]

I fear this is a troll guys . Well done to those that smelt the troll early on

As I said, I'm not interested in judging. All I want to know is what is the likelihood of getting citizenship. Many Irish have the same or better lives living on social welfare.

[IrishTom]

Many Irish have the same or better lives living on social welfare.

The welfare state is a safety net for workers, not a fishing net for Roma and Nigerian bogus asylum seekers.

Your chums should be given a one way ticket home.

[Lost Soul]

Two friends arrived in Ireland from eastern europe (non EU) in 1999, and claimed asylum at the port. They had an Irish-born child in the mid 90s and have been on the temporary leave to remain scheme for parents of Irish born.

How come they only claimed asylum in 1999 when they already had an Irish born child in the mid-90s?

Should be deported with haste.

[vladic]

Sorry, Irish born was mid 00s, before the referendum and is the reason they have been allowed to stay.

[Darkhorse]

No doubt that individual has abuse the system. Not a good character. They should have been deported.
Don't blame them if they are still here because they never asked to leave.

[zafarzafar]

10 years on social welfare is an abuse of the system, and because of that kind of abusers we are facing difficulties today. all of the new rules are coming because of that kind of people. and he is not the one only, there are thousands of asylum seekers/irish babby born cases who are abusing the system.
according to my point of view thay should be warned by the state to stop abusing and state should stop all of the luxuries. and if they are still burden they should be sent back to beautiful countries.
social welfare system is introduced to facilitate the people who genuinely need it, not 10 years. oh GOd

[walrusgumble]

The Council house is a big no no. People have been refused on basis such as this and for even smaller receipts temporary of social welfare

Best solution, don't make application until they are 3 years fully off most social. I must ask, in 1999, a majority of the inhabitants in this country could get jobs, even those who did not have status. I assume they were successful in IBC 2005. Even then, some form of employment was achievable. I'm surprised their status was even renewed because the one of the conditions under the IBC scheme was that one had to remain economically active/viable or in study.

Have a word with one of the NGO's about this,

[vladic]

I must ask, in 1999, a majority of the inhabitants in this country could get jobs, even those who did not have status.

Yes, lots of these jobs were for cash. One has worked 20 hours per week in a few jobs (to keep social welfare entitlements).

They were both recently able to renew for another 3 years their leave to remain because of Irish born, so the system must think they are ok?

[agniukas]

well, they cannot be deported, they are legal here, but they will definately won't get the naturalisation. so they are stuck as they are unless they change their ways of living.
i know at least 3 people who over the past few months got refused for naturalisation. all of them were on social welfare for years (single parent, jobseekers allowence, etc). and all of them were very surprised with the decisions, as it they deserved any better...

[csr]

omg, 10 years on social welfare, what a system we had?

You should be ashamed that they are your friends.

should be deported with haste.

[IrishTom]

They were both recently able to renew for another 3 years their leave to remain because of Irish born, so the system must think they are ok?

Whats the dole these days for a couple? 400 euro(guess)?

Lets take the 400 euro figure(per week for a couple)

400 * 52 * 3 = 62,400 euro.

That, of course, does not take into account the previous ten years of leeching. Medical cards, Back to school allowance, child benefit, rent allowance etc etc.

Now they want social housing?
Now they want citizenship?

What planet are these people living on?

How many people live like this? Why are we allowing them to?

Madness. Absolute madness.

[IrishTom]

well, they cannot be deported, they are legal here, but they will definately won't get the naturalisation. so they are stuck as they are unless they change their ways of living.

One of the stipulations under the IBC scam was that those issued with leave to remain were not to become a burden on the state. These people can and should be deported.

We are borrowing 100s of million per week. The state is not a cash cow for the leeches of this world. The social welfare system was set up as a safety net for those who find themselves facing hardtimes. Not a fishing net for foreign people who want to live off the Irish taxpayer.

[Monifé]

One of the stipulations under the IBC scam was that those issued with leave to remain were not to become a burden on the state. These people can and should be deported.

We are borrowing 100s of million per week. The state is not a cash cow for the leeches of this world. The social welfare system was set up as a safety net for those who find themselves facing hardtimes. Not a fishing net for foreign people who want to live off the Irish taxpayer.

Again I must completely agree with IrishTom, the social welfare system is there for people with genuine problems and who are genuinely struggling to pay bills, buy food. The fact that they are on the social, and have 2 cars, go on holidays etc etc is an absolute disgrace.

Now to move away from the moral talk, this is a forum for advice so I will give you my advice. I think it is almost impossible for your friends to get citizenship, and they will just have to hope for the best in regards to their permission to remain being renewed everytime.

I'm not sure on this, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think your friends could get a permanent residence certificate. But citizenship I think is pretty much out of the question!