Naturalisation through Irish Assocations

[IrishAmerican]

I am looking to apply for citizenship through Irish associations. There is very little information on what decisions are based on regarding granting this type of naturalisation, other than the fact that you need to be related to an Irish citizen. I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight?

My case is as follows:
I am a U.S. citizen aged 25. My parents are dual Irish/American citizens (though they were not Irish citizens when I was born). We lived in Ireland from 1998-1999, when I was a teenager, and then moved back to the U.S. My parents moved back to Ireland in July 2005 and have been living here ever since.

I have been living in the UK since 2005, while attending University and working. After graduating I moved to Ireland in December 2009, at which point I was granted a Stamp 3 and then a Stamp 4. I am now employed full-time and intend to stay in Ireland.

Does this sound like the type of case they would approve for naturalisation based on “Irish associationsâ€

[Ben]

You are entitled to apply, since you are related by blood, affinity or adoption to a person who is an Irish citizen.

Discretion lies with the Minister for Justice though. Good luck with that.

[walrusgumble]

You would be better off waiting for the five years, just in case as this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation. Have a word with the immigration council on their view

[Ben]

..this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation.

Agreed. Unfortunately, there is no expansion on "related by blood, affinity or adoption to a person who is an Irish citizen". Still, applications are free.

[jhbmike]

You would be better off waiting for the five years, just in case as this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation. Have a word with the immigration council on their view

Sorry but I disagree. Apply now. It will take 3 years to get a decision anyway. If you are refused at that stage, you will be at the 5 year mark in the country and then you could apply again on the basis of being in the country for 5 years. Its hit or miss wether you will get it through Irish association but if you dont try you will never know.

[walrusgumble]

You would be better off waiting for the five years, just in case as this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation. Have a word with the immigration council on their view

Sorry but I disagree. Apply now. It will take 3 years to get a decision anyway. If you are refused at that stage, you will be at the 5 year mark in the country and then you could apply again on the basis of being in the country for 5 years. Its hit or miss wether you will get it through Irish association but if you dont try you will never know.

if you apply now, you maybe refused! (but that is not a certainty, there is a chance of success) However, if you are refused, your option to to make a new application. THis will be treated by the department as a new application with a new 68 number, unless, the department say otherwise in their letter of refusal (ie they comment that you are now 60 months and you can now apply and we will treat it like an application received in *). This won't normally happen. A second application will mean an addition period of waiting. Only make an application when you are certain that you comply with requirements as you have to notify the department of previous applications in the form, thus causing possible hassle.

By all means you can make the application, but it may not be as strong as making it when you have resided 5 years. You don't want to be wasting your time. The department are not too keen on "frivolous" applications.

I say have a word with some people with legal clout, like the immigration council and see what they think - would you meet the Irish blood thing

[jhbmike]

You would be better off waiting for the five years, just in case as this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation. Have a word with the immigration council on their view

Nowhere in the OP does he state that his parents were naturalised Irish citizens. He stated they were not Irish at the time of his birth. However this could mean that his parents were born in the US and were not registered with foreign births until after the OP birth. Once registered, they were able to obtain Irish citizenship. There can be no closer link to association than parent to child, and this seems to be the case. On that basis I say go ahead and apply however i do recommend that you wait at least 1 year whilst being resident in Ireland before applying so that the minister doesnt have to waive too many of the conditions and thus the only condition that he would be waiving is the 5 year condition.

[walrusgumble]

You would be better off waiting for the five years, just in case as this is at the discretion of the Minister. He might unfortunately argue that the irish association matter may have been intended for stronger irish connections than through naturalisation. Have a word with the immigration council on their view

Nowhere in the OP does he state that his parents were naturalised Irish citizens. He stated they were not Irish at the time of his birth. However this could mean that his parents were born in the US and were not registered with foreign births until after the OP birth. Once registered, they were able to obtain Irish citizenship. There can be no closer link to association than parent to child, and this seems to be the case. On that basis I say go ahead and apply however i do recommend that you wait at least 1 year whilst being resident in Ireland before applying so that the minister doesnt have to waive too many of the conditions and thus the only condition that he would be waiving is the 5 year condition.

Well pointed out actually, that is a very good observation, but lets wait for the OP to confirm that.

If the parents obtained citizenship by naturalisation, then my comments apply, if its not, then you are fully correct. THey would be considered Irish from their births.

Note though, there can be time limits in relation to the registration of birth since 1986

Furthermore, he may not need to apply the traditional way (dept of justice) should his parents have being citizens by way other than naturalisation (ie they got it by descendants). If his parents are Irish, then he would simply be able to rely on section 6 and 6a (ie parents were citizens or entitled to be citizens) the application would be far more straight forward. head to the passport office (ha good luck) with parents documents (and grandparents assuming it was obtained by descent)

However, I don't think this is the case, as I doubt he would be asking about this.

http://irishbarrister.com/citizenship.html

here is records from an Oireachtas deabte in relation to what Irish Association means
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.as ... All&Page=3

[doesnotcompute]

head to the passport office (ha good luck) with parents documents (and grandparents assuming it was obtained by descent)

No, don't head to the Passport Office. Head to the Consular Section of the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin - they are responsible for processing FBR applications for people based in Ireland. Besides, isn't the Passport Office closed due to flooding at the moment?

Of course if one of your grandparents were born in Ireland, you would be entitled to apply for FBR straight away, but you have no doubt already explored this avenue.

IrishAmerican, you mentioned that your parents became dual Irish/American citizens *after* you were born - could you elaborate on how they became Irish citizens (was it through descent, and if so, how far back was your most recent Irish-born ancestor)?

If they claimed Irish citizenship through FBR, you would not be entitled to FBR (*assuming they claimed FBR after July 1986). However, I would say that you have a good case to apply for Naturalisation after, say 1 year in Ireland, if you provide all birth certs, marriage certs, death certs, etc, tracing your ancestry all the way back to your most recent Irish-born ancestor.

If your parents became Irish citizens through other means (i.e. not through ancestry), your case is not so cut-and-dried.

[strongbow]

If they claimed Irish citizenship through FBR, you would not be entitled to FBR (*assuming they claimed FBR after July 1986).

Off-topic, but why is this the case. I thought that the FBR cycle could continue indefinitely. e.g. if person A claims Irish citizenship through FBR, then when he has a child outside Ireland, that child can still claim Irish citizenship through FBR and so on!

[IrishTom]

I hope you gain Irish citizenship. PM me if I can of any help. I believe we should have pooled all our labour needs from our diaspora.

Best of luck,
IrishTom.

[esharknz]

Just a thought, if someone is applying to be naturalised based on being married to an irish citizen, but also had 4 Irish born great grandparents, would it be worth mentioning/documenting this in an application?

Just was wondering whether it would help at all, or whether its one of those great unknowns. I'm not due to apply for awhile yet, so would have plenty of time to document this if required.

[IrishTom]

This site may be of some assistance, OP.

http://www.diaspora.ie/

[walrusgumble]

Just a thought, if someone is applying to be naturalised based on being married to an irish citizen, but also had 4 Irish born great grandparents, would it be worth mentioning/documenting this in an application?

Just was wondering whether it would help at all, or whether its one of those great unknowns. I'm not due to apply for awhile yet, so would have plenty of time to document this if required.

there would be no harm in mentioning it. but you should proove it with the documents such as birth certs. but don't expect anything from it!!!! the fact that you are married to an irish citizen and you comply with the other requirements is enough. normally, as seen in the link to dail debate on this issue, grandparent is as far as they normally consider

[jhbmike]

If they claimed Irish citizenship through FBR, you would not be entitled to FBR (*assuming they claimed FBR after July 1986).

Off-topic, but why is this the case. I thought that the FBR cycle could continue indefinitely. e.g. if person A claims Irish citizenship through FBR, then when he has a child outside Ireland, that child can still claim Irish citizenship through FBR and so on!

Anybody have an answer for this??????????????

[JAJ]

If they claimed Irish citizenship through FBR, you would not be entitled to FBR (*assuming they claimed FBR after July 1986).

Off-topic, but why is this the case. I thought that the FBR cycle could continue indefinitely. e.g. if person A claims Irish citizenship through FBR, then when he has a child outside Ireland, that child can still claim Irish citizenship through FBR and so on!

FBR can continue indefinitely provided that the parent becomes an Irish citizen by FBR before the next generation is born. Anecdotally, most adult FBR applicants are in middle age and have already had their children.

[doesnotcompute]

If they claimed Irish citizenship through FBR, you would not be entitled to FBR (*assuming they claimed FBR after July 1986).

Off-topic, but why is this the case. I thought that the FBR cycle could continue indefinitely. e.g. if person A claims Irish citizenship through FBR, then when he has a child outside Ireland, that child can still claim Irish citizenship through FBR and so on!

Anybody have an answer for this??????????????

Prior to 1st July 1986, anybody who became an Irish citizen via FBR was considered to be an Irish citizen from the day they were born. Thus anyone who became an Irish citizen prior to 1st July 1986 could register any existing children they had, on the basis that they were considered to be Irish citizens when their children were born.

The law changed in 1986, and now, if you have any children BEFORE you claim FBR, your children are not entitled, as you are now only considered to be an Irish citizen from the date of entry in the FBR book.

[strongbow]

yes that's seems in line with the information I got from the Irish embassy as well.

[JAJ]

Prior to 1st July 1986, anybody who became an Irish citizen via FBR was considered to be an Irish citizen from the day they were born.

Nearly correct ... It's date of birth, or 17 July 1956, if born before that date.

[hinano]

I'm also looking to apply for naturalisation based on Irish associations, but my circumstances are a bit different. My mother became an Irish citizen through FBR and it was granted in January 2007. I am a US citizen (born in the US) and I currently live in Northern Ireland (UK), where I live with my uncle (mother's brother) who is an Irish citizen by FBR as well (granted 2004-ish). He has lived in Northern Ireland for 12 years. I recently moved in with him after completing my postgrad at a university in Scotland, so I've only been living with him for a few months. My great-grandfather was born in Ireland which is how my mother and uncle got citizenship through FBR, but my mother did not register before I was born. She currently lives in the United States.

Is there any chance that I would have strong enough "Irish associations" to be able to apply? Anyone have similar experience with this? Would hiring a good immigration lawyer probably increase my chances significantly? Thanks for your advice.