HSMP process somekind of lottery ???

[indian0105]

Dear all,

Hundreds & hundreds of young HSMP applicant are in dilemma because of the MOST UNPREDICTABLE process of assessment.

This inconsistency on part of HSMP team is infuriating young genunie HSMP applicant ,all over the world and leaving them feeling that the whole processis something Of a LOTTERY

pls poll , so we all justify What is going on !!!!

[kumi]

Yo Great Indian....

whatz up with you man.... out of the 27 posts you have made on this forum none had been in a positive taste.... its acceptable that you had applied for HSMP and there has been some problem., but, dont use this forum to release your frustrations buddy.... just pleasure up man.., apply again.., there are people on this forum who got it after 4 rejections... take a light heart and chill mate !!!

regards
kumi

[amhilde]

I just finished reading a book by Harriet Sergeant called Welcome to the Asylum as put out by the Centre for Public Policy in the UK. My god, read that and this whole system will be clear. It was written pre-HSMP, or rather right on the cusp, but as of 2001 it sounded like there was no real computer system with the IND down in Croydon. The fact that HSMP actually HAS computers is a godsend. Just be glad you arent in the asylum system.

I think perhaps there is a bit of a lottery system to this process, from the aspect that there is a human element to it and as such that increases the chance of inconsistency and error. Additionally, given the cross-cultural manner of the system, and the high turnover with the HSMP teams, and government underfunding, this is a far from perfect system. But, this is the way it is, there is no point in bitching about it otherwise.

[HSMP_Sonu]

I think if the homework has been done properly, HSMP is fairly predictable. Agreed it is not inline with the normal thinking process. This process is so so self-centric. Applicants really have to get involved in this to get it right the first time. And it does take chunk of your time and mental energies.

The problem with this system is that the applicant has to go back to the previous employers to gather the roles and responsibilities on their letter heads. A practise that i have found not even being followed in UK. I worked in UK for couple of years and I requested one of my employers to kindly issue me a work reference letter in HSMP format. I have got nothing more than silence. One of my ex-employers has shut down the company and cannot issue me any more letters on the company letter head.

There has to be definitely a better way out to resolve this problem. In my opinion this kind of out of the way approach also promotes fraud and deception.

Staying with marriage partner for 2 years proof is another headache. In countries like india and pakistan all the ladies do not work. Almost every correspondence is in the name of the Male spouse, be it bank account, credit card, rental agreements etc if the female is a housewife and not working. In cases where both the partners work it is possible to get these proofs. Otherwise, it is a big problem.

A marriage certificate is more than a gaurantee atleast that the partners have been staying together. In how many cases is there a chance that two people get married but are not staying together. There must be some more criterias to determine the staying together factor or maybe dont look at the staying together factor at all. Why does HSMP need it ? What if the couple have been staying apart for Professional purposes for some time due to their professional life constraints ?

And then comes to original documents part. Absolutely pathetic. Why on the earth do they need original documents. If WP team in UK, H1B process in USA, can work without originals, why cant HSMP ? Notarized copies are more than sufficient proofs for the documents being genuine. Moreover, In cases of doubts, British embassy in respective countries can always cross check the facts.

Well... I am absolutely demotivated by this plan. I am desperate to work in UK. I have tons of experience and abundance of talent but I still cannot apply for HSMP. Maybe even after 11 years of quality experience, I am not ""HIGHLY SKILLED

[stedman]

I can only speak for myself but I found it pretty straight forward. I worked out I had over 65 points (applying on my own) and when I got the letter they had worked out I had over 65 points as well. It's been a great introduction as I would have been in a dilemma without it - it allowed me some time and space to look for the job I really wanted. Without it I'd have had to apply for "a" job just to get a work permit.

[amhilde]

Well Sonu, I understand you. I am stuck because they refuse to recognize my Masters as being equivalent just because I didnt do it in the same subject as my undergraduate degree. Meanwhile, I can point out a bunch of Masters courses in the UK that are very similar to what I did here, that do not require you to have an undergraduate degree in anything even remotely close to that subject- which is extremely frustrating. Ive got plenty to offer and am willing to relocate to a country with a marginal medical system and broken down trasport and housing infrastructure, yet the powers that be wont let me because I happen to be a curious sort of individual who wanted to do a degree in something more applicable than anthropology. When I applied to jobs in the UK with an anthropology degree, a number of employers had to ask me what it was exactly. I doubt it would be a marketable degree there if I had a masters, and complied to the HSMP standards here, but with economics and my skill set now there are any number of jobs I could be competitive with. Its this disconnect that is really annoying.

[HSMP_Sonu]

Amhilde & Me are live examples of antagonistic approaches of HSMP.

I have no degree so i cannot claim points and Amhilde has two degrees yet he cannot.

To overcome degree issue I have 11 years of Quality experience yet I am not HIGHLY SKILLED. Amhilde's denial means he is not "HIGHLY SKILLED" either in the books of HSMP.

I wonder what exactly "HIGHLY SKILLED" means ? It looks to me HIGHLY SKILLED here means, skill to get anything and everything as evidence. Probably this programme is only for HIGHLY SKILLED LAWYERS

[indian0105]

I think perhaps there is a bit of a lottery system to this process, from the aspect that there is a human element to it and as such that increases the chance of inconsistency and error. Additionally, given the cross-cultural manner of the system, and the high turnover with the HSMP teams, and government underfunding, this is a far from perfect system. But, this is the way it is, there is no point in bitching about it otherwise.

Dear i am agreed with amhilde and sonu ,

Ltes answer to kumi first , I am not negative thinker ,,, But i am quit surprissed !! from HSMP team ... Had you read my all posts ???? you know HSMP team send my refusal letter with Zero non consideration of any points on 05-08-05 and shockingly there was inquiry in my company on 17-08-05 from British Deputy highcomission mumbai. after refusal subsequent inquiry at my work place

Where they verify my Educational Degree Certificate : its all authentic Man i am Btech - engineer

Where they verify my Birth Certificate : Im just 26 only ..

If please some one tell me the perfect defination of HSMP Because i am not understand ??
if applicant Btech 4+ years of work exp ,
spouse is Mtech 2+ years of exp than where skill????????

now i am going for review

i think there is a good profit making & big business

those got approval !!!!!!! they are lucky --- by luck only

[HSMP_Sonu]

My observation is that under 28 success ratio is higher. Because this category requires less experience and get more points. Probability of success and collecting evidence etc is higher in this case.

Where as in above 28 cases, it is difficult.

[amhilde]

Im Under 28 and I still couldnt cut it. Also, I couldnt apply for points from earnings because frankly, to get points for the minimum threshold for earnings is almost poverty line for NYC, yet its considerable for the out-of-the-way place where I live. You can cut this a million ways at the unfairness of it all, but its their rules. I dont give a toss if the UK HO doesnt think Im highly skilled enough under "their rules", Ive met a multitude of British and European people who are perfectly satisfied that im educated and skilled enough to be offered internship assistance or to be consulted for my opinion on certain topics. All the same, Ill be keeping the letters that I have, or have new ones made up before I leave, just in case I want another crack at the UK any time soon.

BTW im a girl, not a guy

[HSMP_Sonu]

Amhilde - My views regarding under 28 are purely based on the observations of successes in this forum. I still believe that exp wise under 28 category gains an advantage. I do feel bad for the way your case has been handled because inspite of good exp and skills, HSMP is still an alien to you. But in case of IT People, under 28 category just fits in very nicely. I mean income slabs, degree, experience etc.

Well, when i mentioned earlier about u and me not being HIGHLY SKILLED in the eyes of HSMP teams, i just meant a pun towards the programme. No offences intended. I have succeeded in my career in IT like anything without a degree. And I used the same terms in my earlier career that I dont give a toss to the univ. degree, as I have been in a wanted situation all my life. But when artifacts like HSMP rules or H1B regulations came in picture, all my carefreeness of not possessing a degree went for a toss. Because, I lost the right of being wanted here. It's the rules that rule not perceptions and unregulated wantedness.

[abcd1]

It is almost a lottery!

It is very hazy on some points eg. work exp. etc.
It is extremely unlikely to get a reference letter in the same format they want from employers (especially present ones if not past).

Sometimes seemingly weak cases get approved but whereas very strong cases get refusal.

It is a very good way to earn money by Home Office!

No one knows there real story behind it. How qualified caseworkers are? they often seem to lack common sense. I wonder if they are even graduate!

[buntosanya]

I can understand the frustration, especially when you thought you have done everything you could and you expect your application to pull through only to get another refusal.

I think the whole idea of this HSMP is to know the exact thing that is being required and the way to present it.

I have shared my story in this forum several times. I am sure if i applied on my own maybe i would have been refused about 3 times or more because of presentation of Docs. On work experience, i was calculating 13 years of graduate level experience, but from HSMP's perspective of the kind of experience i had compared to UK so to say, it is only 6 years that was recognised, rubbishing my first 7 years of work experience. You can now imagine if it was only that 7 years of experience i have, they would have obviously given me zero for work experience.

I was saved all this because i went through a consultant who took my drilling off HSMP Team. I must confess he actually drilled me, because he has a wealth of experience on what HSMP Team requires. I had to go back to my past employers about 3 times in order to change the content of my work experience. When i couldn't get it right he had to send a sample copy of the work experience presentation and told me outrightly that my experience for the first 7 yrs will not be relevant, because it is not considered as graduate level job in UK.

This has brought me back to the issue of which country you are applying from. The industry where i gained this 7 yrs experience is one of the most paid job sector in my country.

It took me about 4 months to gather my Docs, that is between when we started discussing and when he actually confirmed that my Docs are okay to be submitted to HO . All i am saying here is that the stress of my application being refused over and over was avoided b'cos i had somebody to put me through, even though i had to pay through my nose.

I did not have it smooth with the Consultant either, but the difference here is that there is a human face to this stress, there is communication between 2 people. He was able to advise on what to present, unlike when one is dealing with faceless HO.

I must confess that there were times i felt like weeping. There was a day i sent him a mail telling him, he was being too strict with me, but like he said it is better to ensure we send an application that wil not be refused. I got my application approved 3 weeks after submission and i am positive that if i did it on my own, i would have been lost on what to do. Although i submitted my application before i stumbled on this great and friendly forum, maybe i wouldn't have paid to get it done after all.

Accoding to my Consultant, he said HSMP is rejecting about 58% of the Applications. He was actually ready to back out of our deal if it happened that i found it difficult to provide and present the documents the way he wanted it. You can imagine my joy the day he mailed me to tell me that he has forwarded my application to HO, because i know that he must have been satisfied with the docs b4 forwarding them.

I hope i have not bored you all with my long story, it is just that i have a burden in my heart for those guys out there who are still strugglng with getting the Docs right. I am not advocating that it is compulsory to go through a consultant, on the contrary. Like i said earlier maybe i wouldn't have paid that much if i had stumbled on this forum early enough. All the same, my money didn't go down the drain after all.

Which all you guys out there that are still awaiting your approval, BEST OF LUCK.

[quite eager]

"When i couldn't get it right he had to send a sample copy of the work experience presentation "


Dear buntosanya, Glad to learn about ur success story.

Can u please share the sample copy of the work experience presentation, as it would benefit many on this forum.

Alternatively, please send a copy to me on the below mentioned email address.

What is ur present position? Have u got EC? which country are u from ?

warm regards and best wishes,

QE
javedali250@yahoo.com

[amhilde]

Sonu- I know what you meant dont worry I was just being a little sarcastic in regards to the HSMP regulations. I know they need a benchmark to compare educational qualifications, but its not like I sat on my mule over here when I did my masters. I guess it would be nice if a little bit of thought could be applied to the process, but with all the applications I can see how that could be difficult. All the same, I hate being passed up in life and its hard to see others announce that they got approval and I cant even though Ive done plenty of work in and on the UK.

[yodiyokun]

I will agree that the HSMP team do not reason or think logicaly when reviewing applications.
its as if they are programmed to think like robots.
Or maybe the way things are done in UK are extremely different from other countries.

Its very true that in some countries, wifes dont work.and so may not have any correspondence addressed to them... and to me it sucks for them to think every culture doesnt appreciate the institution of marriage.

for example.. i am married and both my husband and I work professionally, but almost all our correspondences go through my husband except my personal bank statement.

Thank God we dint need the partners point to attain the 65 mark.

In particular, I am very peeved at amhildes situation. Its absolutely crazy.
You can do MSC in any subject as far as you have some course work in that subject in 1st degree(at least a lot of unis accept that)
But I dont blame the caseworkers, most of them are not "educated" nor half as skilled as the applicants.

To make matters worse, those at their embassy here in nigeria... are very much worse off.... one needs to pray hard even after preparing the EC application well.

[buntosanya]

quiteeager

I will be glad to do that. cheers