Citizenship v. Stamp 5

[v emmy]

I am a U.S. citizen, living/working here continuously for same employer for just over 10 years. I have Stamp 5.

I applied for citizenship in November,2009. Got ref. no, no prob, so it's being processed.

But a friend who used to work at Migrant Rights Ireland asked me why was I applying for citizenship when I already have Stamp 5. He says I have all the "entitlements" of an Irish citizen already.

First off, I'd say I won't be able to vote in national elections, so that tells me I dont have all the entitlements.

What other disadvantages or restrictions would there be should I not continue with the citizenship application and save the €€ and hassle of the paperwork towards the end of the process?

I am 60 yrs old, so I'm very conscious of pension benefits, etc. Between my US Social Security from yrs working in US and PRSI/PAYE credits here, I'd be hoping for the contributory pension, etc.

What "entitlements" would I not be entitled to if not a citizen? Or what benefits would be excluded etc.

Why AM I going for citizenship if Stamp 5 is nearly equal?
(Besides the fact that this is my home and I have no plans to leave.)

Thanks for any pro's and con's. (Sorry if it's been discussed before. Can't find it in search.)

v

[doesnotcompute]

I don't really know what a STAMP 5 is, but I would point out that Irish citizenship (or an Irish passport to be pedantic) would entitle you to travel throughout the EU, should you wish to do so. Not sure if STAMP 5 would allow you to do so.

[mktsoi]

I am a U.S. citizen, living/working here continuously for same employer for just over 10 years. I have Stamp 5.

I applied for citizenship in November,2009. Got ref. no, no prob, so it's being processed.

But a friend who used to work at Migrant Rights Ireland asked me why was I applying for citizenship when I already have Stamp 5. He says I have all the "entitlements" of an Irish citizen already.

First off, I'd say I won't be able to vote in national elections, so that tells me I dont have all the entitlements.

What other disadvantages or restrictions would there be should I not continue with the citizenship application and save the €€ and hassle of the paperwork towards the end of the process?

I am 60 yrs old, so I'm very conscious of pension benefits, etc. Between my US Social Security from yrs working in US and PRSI/PAYE credits here, I'd be hoping for the contributory pension, etc.

What "entitlements" would I not be entitled to if not a citizen? Or what benefits would be excluded etc.

Why AM I going for citizenship if Stamp 5 is nearly equal?
(Besides the fact that this is my home and I have no plans to leave.)

Thanks for any pro's and con's. (Sorry if it's been discussed before. Can't find it in search.)

v

Well, Stamp 5 and Irish citizenship I would say it is the same in all the tax and pension entitlement. Only big different is that you cannot work or live in another EU countries if you only holding Stamp 5, but Irish Citizenship would allow you to stay, live and work in any EU or EEA members state without time limit.

It is really up to you to get the citizenship or not because like you mentioned that you already holding a stamp 5 and this allow you to work and live in Ireland without restrictions but only not allow you to vote in the national election. Since you are an American, I guess you already know that Consular assistant for American citizenship traveling oversea is a lot better than Irish Citizen, right?

[9jeirean]

(............... "this is my home and I have no plans to leave")

That's all the reason you need. It's called naturalization. The question is do you want it? The option is yours.

Good luck

9j

[Ben]

Well, Stamp 5 and Irish citizenship I would say it is the same in all the tax and pension entitlement. Only big different is that you cannot work or live in another EU countries if you only holding Stamp 5, but Irish Citizenship would allow you to stay, live and work in any EU or EEA members state without time limit.

Very well put.

[Ben]

Just on this..

Since you are an American, I guess you already know that Consular assistant for American citizenship traveling oversea is a lot better than Irish Citizen, right?

I know which passport I'd prefer to be travelling on..

[v emmy]

Thank you all for the points you make. Fortunately, I wouldn't have to surrender my US passport/citizenship, so I would have the advantage of using the passport with the most benefit in a given situation. If I were to travel anywhere except the US, the Irish passport is obviously the preferred one!

I am fairly certain that the job I have held for the last 1o years will be my last job, so no problem on restrictions to work in other EU, etc countries.

One thing is that the laws keep changing so often.... They could make fundamental changes in what a Stamp 5 is, so the advantages and disadvantages could change.

Any other considerations would be gratefully received. There are so many aspects of which I am unaware!!

thanks again,
v

[JAJ]

As a citizen:

- you can have the passport
- vote, etc.
- you don't lose your residence right if you spend time elsewhere
- if you get into trouble with the law, you can't be deported
- claiming welfare/benefits does not impact your status
- Easier to sponsor spouse for residence
- a child born outside Ireland/NI can be registered as an Irish citizen,

And so on.

[walrusgumble]

I am a U.S. citizen, living/working here continuously for same employer for just over 10 years. I have Stamp 5.

I applied for citizenship in November,2009. Got ref. no, no prob, so it's being processed.

But a friend who used to work at Migrant Rights Ireland asked me why was I applying for citizenship when I already have Stamp 5. He says I have all the "entitlements" of an Irish citizen already.

First off, I'd say I won't be able to vote in national elections, so that tells me I dont have all the entitlements.

What other disadvantages or restrictions would there be should I not continue with the citizenship application and save the €€ and hassle of the paperwork towards the end of the process?

I am 60 yrs old, so I'm very conscious of pension benefits, etc. Between my US Social Security from yrs working in US and PRSI/PAYE credits here, I'd be hoping for the contributory pension, etc.

What "entitlements" would I not be entitled to if not a citizen? Or what benefits would be excluded etc.

Why AM I going for citizenship if Stamp 5 is nearly equal?
(Besides the fact that this is my home and I have no plans to leave.)

Thanks for any pro's and con's. (Sorry if it's been discussed before. Can't find it in search.)

v

being unable to vote for the dail, eu and referendums. you are american so visas are not a problem any where in the eu (assuming the others don't ask) so, thats about it really, just don't get into a really cool gang pitty we have a really cool handsake and get to set up units of 12 and have secret meetings like the stone cutters (as in the simpsons and everyone loves us

so no, you are not missing out. same goes for stamp 4 holders who are NOT from the usual band of countries that do not need visas to enter certain countries of the "free world"

the poster above me is correct, but lets face it, considering one's lengthy period of time here, you would want to be a raving lunatic to get deported. everyone is assumed to be a law abiding citizen. did you say that you were 60 years. well (please forgive me here) i assume your children, if you have any are grown up, so they would have to naturalise the normal way as you were not a citizen at time of their birth or not in a position to say i was entitled to be .

and do you hope to aspire to have any more children? well if so, those children would be irish as of birth as you have lived in ireland for at least 3 years.

by the looks of it, whilst irish citizensip would most certainly give you more freedom immigration wise, i doubt your lifestyle would have any impact, bar your wallet

but, sure, you might as well obtain citizensip after all these years of hard work

[walrusgumble]

I don't really know what a STAMP 5 is, but I would point out that Irish citizenship (or an Irish passport to be pedantic) would entitle you to travel throughout the EU, should you wish to do so. Not sure if STAMP 5 would allow you to do so.

do americans need visas by other countries?

[v emmy]

As a citizen:

- you can have the passport
- vote, etc.
- you don't lose your residence right if you spend time elsewhere
- if you get into trouble with the law, you can't be deported
- claiming welfare/benefits does not impact your status
- Easier to sponsor spouse for residence
- a child born outside Ireland/NI can be registered as an Irish citizen,

And so on.

Some very good points. Being 60, I'm not really planning to have any more children. Mine are grown and living in US and have no interest in living in Ireland, so that one is moot for me.

The welfare/benefits issue is one that concerns me. If I were to get sick and unable to work before I turn 65, not being a citizen, it is my understanding that if I were no longer able to fully provide for myself, I would become "unwelcome." Is that a correct understanding?

No plans to marry. If I were to marry however, he is an Irish-born citizen, so no prob there.

Having the passport is something that means something to me, since this is where I live and have no plans to change that.

Spending time elsewhere.... if I were to visit the States for an extended period, am I correct in understanding that would affect my status, even though Stamp 5 clearly states "without condition as to time" ???? My understanding is that I just get a new stamp every time I get a new passport; i.e. every 10 years.

Simpler to have the Irish citizenship and passport, obviously. But wow, expensive now! Probably 2 more years to go before it comes through. I'd be 62... 3 yrs from pension, so by paye rights I'd become dependent on the State in a lot of ways! Will they kick me out then??

[9jeirean]

How about you get both. Not sure if there is any restriction on getting both. At least it doesn't cost anything to get a stamp 5 at the moment. You never know when you'll need either of them.

[v emmy]

How about you get both. Not sure if there is any restriction on getting both. At least it doesn't cost anything to get a stamp 5 at the moment. You never know when you'll need either of them.

Thanks, 9. Well, since I have the Stamp 5, I probably will keep it, so I can keep the stamp in my US passport as well.

I was just very surprised when someone who was with MRCI asked why bother with the citizenship since Stamp 5 conferred basically the same benefits. I just need to verify the pertinent details.... and the rules are always changing, so that also makes me lean toward seeing it out with the naturalisation process.

[Ben]

The welfare/benefits issue is one that concerns me. If I were to get sick and unable to work before I turn 65, not being a citizen, it is my understanding that if I were no longer able to fully provide for myself, I would become "unwelcome." Is that a correct understanding?

Stamp 5 is Without Condition As To Time. As far as the Department of Social and Family Affairs is concerned, A person with Stamp 5 is a person with "residency granted" by the Department of Justice. Claims made by such persons are treated as if the person were an Irish citizen.

[mktsoi]

How about you get both. Not sure if there is any restriction on getting both. At least it doesn't cost anything to get a stamp 5 at the moment. You never know when you'll need either of them.

Thanks, 9. Well, since I have the Stamp 5, I probably will keep it, so I can keep the stamp in my US passport as well.

I was just very surprised when someone who was with MRCI asked why bother with the citizenship since Stamp 5 conferred basically the same benefits. I just need to verify the pertinent details.... and the rules are always changing, so that also makes me lean toward seeing it out with the naturalisation process.

if you going to claim social welfare with stamp 5, it doesnt make you unwelcome in the country. the purpose of stamp 5 is for people dont really want to apply for citizenship. for good example, i know a japanese person living in ireland that she had never applied for irish citizenship but just have a stamp 5. the reason for her not to apply for irish citizenship because japan does not allow dual citizenship and she does not want to give up her japanese passport. thats why they have stamp 5 and it just like US green card. i know some people just kept their us green card without apply for citizenship for the same reason. USA used to not allow dual citizenship but they just changed it. but bear in mind that if you cause serious trouble in ireland. stamp 5 person is deportable! so i hope you are not planning to cause trouble hehe!

anyway, MRCI is kinda right for whatever they are saying to you. you have a US passport and not planning to move to live in anywhere in Europe anyway, so there is not much point that for you to apply for citizenship but since you dont need to give up your us passport, why not, one more piece paper. it helps when you need it.

you were mentioning that you would travel with you irish passport if you have it. bear in mind that they do not have an irish embassy in every country in the world. if you needed help, travel with you us passport is far more better whe you need help oversea. just like i know some of the older irish people. if they are in real trouble oversea. they know that they can go to ask for help in the british embassy because they would be be eligable for british subject status anyway. and dont even worry about people saying that travel with us passport is not safe. hey, if someone wants to kidnap you for money. they wont care what passport you are holding haha.

talking about free stamp 5. i have been told by GNIB over the phone that stamp 5 is not free because if they gie u a stamp 5 on your passport. you sitll need to attend to GNIB office and apply for the GNIB card as soon as you recevie you passport? did you need to go to GNIB office to get an GNIB card with your stamp 5? that was only few months ago when i phoned in.

anyway, good luck with your citizenship application!

[v emmy]

if you going to claim social welfare with stamp 5, it doesnt make you unwelcome in the country. the purpose of stamp 5 is for people dont really want to apply for citizenship. ...snipped...
...
apply for citizenship but since you dont need to give up your us passport, why not, one more piece paper. it helps when you need it.

...snipped...
talking about free stamp 5. i have been told by GNIB over the phone that stamp 5 is not free because if they gie u a stamp 5 on your passport. you sitll need to attend to GNIB office and apply for the GNIB card as soon as you recevie you passport? did you need to go to GNIB office to get an GNIB card with your stamp 5? that was only few months ago when i phoned in.

anyway, good luck with your citizenship application!

Thank you very much,mktsoi and others who've commented. Apologies for not getting back here sooner.

Stamp 5 was most definitely not free. I forget how much it was though.
I live down the country, so I went to "my" immigration officer at the main Garda station with my letter from the Dept of Justice. I'm very sorry that I've forgotten the cost. It was not cheap, but it wasn't over the top either (and that depends on one's perspective too, I suppose).

I definitely want to have my Irish passport. I only got Stamp 5 because my Stamp 4 was going to expire in a year, and I found out that (at that time) it was taking over TWO YEARS to renew a Stamp 4! I would have then become undocumented. So on good advice from MRCI, I applied for the Stamp 5. It took nine DAYS! I think that has changed, unfortunately.

I have had many, many sick days over the 10 years here, and a huge amount in the last two years (surgery and chronic conditions). So I'm wondering if my illness benefits are going to be a problem with my citz application.

I would never go for any unemployment benefits. I know that would kill it. But if I've worked for the same company, full time for over 10 years, then I have more than 520 weeks PRSI paid, right? (except they count only as far as two years back.)

I think we only have to have 260 weeks PRSI paid to qualify for illness benefits. If I lose my job due to illness, I have a Salary Protection policy that would make up 75% of my salary (part of which would include any State benefits I'd be receiving).

But will my illness benefits hurt my application? (I'm wondering , should I start a new thread..)

v e

[Aceform]

That shouldn't do emmy, as I know few who got their citizenship approved even after claiming illness benefits. I know it may hinder your chances if you claim unemployment benefits.

Regarding the cost, it was 150 Euros (same as the fee you pay for GNIB card)

[v emmy]

That shouldn't do emmy, as I know few who got their citizenship approved even after claiming illness benefits. I know it may hinder your chances if you claim unemployment benefits.

Regarding the cost, it was 150 Euros (same as the fee you pay for GNIB card)

I agree, Ace, with "shouldn't do".... but does anyone around know that for certain? Or as close to certain as possible, given that each case is unique with its own constellation of paarticulars.

And a question on that, Ace: with the few you refer to, was it significant illness benefits? I had surgery one year and was on illness benefit for 4 months; then a spinal thing that kept me out for another 4 months in another year. Then little (by comparison anyway) things here and there that were enough days to claim. So I've a fairly whopping amount of illness benefit.

Re: unemployment benefits, yes, i think that would kill it for anyone in most cases. I don't know for sure though. I'm simply not going to take a chance on that on that one. If my work sacks me because of too much illness, I'll not be going for the dole. I'll starve first.

Thanks for remembering how much Stamp 5 GNIB card cost. 150 is hefty enough, but not a back breaker. (I would assume anyone getting a Stamp 5 has their finances more or less under control.)

Thanks again for the reply. I'm under a lot of stress at the moment, so any glimmer of hope is greatly appreciated!