NCS - Not so fast after all

[K2004]

Hello

I applied for naturalisation using NCS, my appointment was at 9:30 am, everything done in 20 mins, and I managed to get the Special delivery reference so I can track it online,,,, and suprise surprise, , and was only posted at the end of the following day, and received in Liverpool the morning 2 days later from my application day.. !!!!!!! so be aware, and always ask for the Special Delivey reference number so you know whatss going on.

I think 35 pounds is expensive for somone who just tick boxes and copy your passport, (the only benefit is that you get to keep your passport).

good luck for all

[lemess]

With respect that is rubbish. The real value of NCS is not in the time taken to reach Liverpool ( which is pretty fast if you just post your application anyway ) but the fact that NCS applications are pre-checked and are given priority while processing. In my case, it also took 2 days to hit liverpool but I had final approval in another week. I know of people who applied by post a few months before me and are still waiting. Also , the ability to keep your passport , not have it lurk about in the bowels of the home office and travel while your application is being processed are well worth £35 in my view. Using the NCS I have gone from application to having a passport in hand in 20 elapsed days.

[K2004]

cool.. you agreed with me then you say its rubbish???

if you check this board you will find people who worries so much about when they can apply for naturalisation, and if they can apply a day before one year complete or day after....same as me, I was counting 12 months day by day, and when i applied, I was a bit disapointed for having to wait an extra day.

as for 35 pounds, it is more expensive than the life in the UK test, i know its worth every penny, but its not logical,its another way of sucking money from immigrants... and beleive me if it was 350 i will still use it...but its not fair..

[lemess]

cool.. you agreed with me then you say its rubbish???

if you check this board you will find people who worries so much about when they can apply for naturalisation, and if they can apply a day before one year complete or day after....same as me, I was counting 12 months day by day, and when i applied, I was a bit disapointed for having to wait an extra day.

as for 35 pounds, it is more expensive than the life in the UK test, i know its worth every penny, but its not logical,its another way of sucking money from immigrants... and beleive me if it was 350 i will still use it...but its not fair..

What are you on about ? it is the Nationality Checking Service ( and not a speedy delivery service) and provides a service for checking your application and submitting it to the home office at a reasonable price - it costs much more to get passports certified externally. You are not forced to use it.
Rather than a way of sucking money - it is a sign of the home office responding to demands for the service and in my view the pricing is very reasonable since it covers the cost of the staff, admin as well as special delivery charges etc. And it seems to deliver turnaround times of 5-15 days which are remarkable by any standards. Your application is pretty much guaranteed to be processed faster since most of the sanity checks would have been carried out before it gets to a caseworker. Compare this to situations in other countries ( for example the US) where applications take months and years and I am surprised you are already moaning about the NCS without having progressed to even the first step in the process. For most people on this board the experience has been overwhelmingly positive without exception.
As I said using it resulted in me getting a UK passport within 20 days - not using it would probably have taken twice or thrice as long. Am I willing to pay £35 for that alone ?
The words bears, woods and a certain gooey substance come to mind.

[K2004]

Well done, it seems to me that if people are desparate then they are ready to pay..

Can you explain to me why when you check application in the post office it costs only 4 pounds??? http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/po_check.htm... i know it is for driving license, also you said that we pay 35 pound to cover the cost of special delivery, ,, fine but it wasnt special...


The whole country is opposing the id cards because they dont want to pay for it, no one cares about immigrants they can be charged no problem... if you are rich you get a passport,, if you are poor then wait... why they cant get it right from the begining anyway????

by the way ,, why are you fighting me?

[lemess]

Well done, it seems to me that if people are desparate then they are ready to pay..

Can you explain to me why when you check application in the post office it costs only 4 pounds??? http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/po_check.htm... i know it is for driving license, also you said that we pay 35 pound to cover the cost of special delivery, ,, fine but it wasnt special...


The whole country is opposing the id cards because they dont want to pay for it, no one cares about immigrants they can be charged no problem... if you are rich you get a passport,, if you are poor then wait... why they cant get it right from the begining anyway????

by the way ,, why are you fighting me?

It is simply a service available at a modest price - you are not forced to use it. I thin £35 is OK as I don't think they are making any money on this - this is simply covering the cost of provision.
Immigrants who cannot afford the additional £35 will obviously go the postal route which involves more work for the home office caseworkers as they have to make sure applications are complete and this will inevitably take longer. This will also mean they will have to send their passports with the app.

There is a choice. Much like there is choice by getting a passport guaranteed within a week by paying extra and asking for a fast track service. If you don't want that you don't pay.

It would be an issue if people who didn't pay extra were denied the chance to make the application for naturalisation. That isn't the case.

The primary reason for NCS is to allow you to keep your documents and check completeness of applications. Faster processing is a welcome result of that but not the purpose of NCS. If this isn't a service you want, you shouldn't use it.

By the way, I am not fighting you !

I was prompted to respond as yours is the first negative comment I have seen about NCS on this board and in light of my recent experience using the service I felt I had to disagree with your assessment that's all

[bbdivo]

When people refer to the NCS being a speedy service, I don't think they are referring to how long it takes the participating council to post the application to Liverpool, but how long it takes from applying at the council to when you actually receive the approval. Based on what members indicate in their posts this takes on between 5 and 30 days, In most peoples opinion a speedy service.

If you apply through the post, and you want to keep your passport, you would have had to photocopy every page of your passport and had it certified by a solicitor, on average they charge £5 a page. Average passport has 50 page so 25 photocopies (as 2 pages fit on an A4 page) would cost £125. Considering you're paying £35 thats no bad.

[rogerroger]

Hey k2004 when did you apply for naturalisaton at the NCS.

did you apply after the 31st of october, perhaps the home office is trying to clear the backlog of the rush which avoided the citizenship test ??

[John]

Oh dear .... what a difference a day makes! seems that the complaint is that it was not despatched to Liverpool on the day of checking but instead was sent the next day. In the whole scheme of things, is that really so important?

As for the £35 checking fee, again given the benefits and priority in using NCS, is that really a big deal?

Now if you really want something to complain about ... how about £68 for the Citizenship Ceremony?

[Joseph]

Too much whinging here, I'm afraid. I think the £35 is a bargain when compared with the cost of a solicitor (£700+ VAT and copying fees) or the time factor (4 months for most postal applications rather than 2 weeks for most NCS applications). But the biggest benefit for me is the indeterminable value of always having your passport in hand in case you need to make a quick business trip.

As for the £4 checking fee for drivers licenses, that only applies for people with British passports. But now it is totally unnecessary because people with British passports can now just enter their passport number on the application and DVLA will cross check this on the Home Office database. Holders of other passports still need to send their passports in to get a driver license.

Even the £68 ceremony fee is not a big deal in my opinion. Previously applicants had to swear the oath in front of a Commissioner for Oaths or Notary. I don't know how much that cost, but it could easily exceed £68.

Naturalisation in this country is still a piece of cake, in my opinion!

Joseph

[John]

Joseph, I agree but have to say that as regards :-

applicants had to swear the oath in front of a Commissioner for Oaths or Notary. I don't know how much that cost, but it could easily exceed £68.

-: it costs merely £5 to swear a declaration in front of a Solicitor.

My wife attended her Citizenship Ceremony in June last year. As a ceremony ...great ... but for £68 we were expecting a bit more than just tea/coffee and biscuits afterwards. It is a nice little earner for someone.

So let's put it this way .... if the Government privatised Citizenship Ceremonies, or put the process out to tender .... I suspect the cost would reduce substantially from the current £68.

[K2004]

How about privatising NCS???? I will have it as my own business... and will be happy to charge only £15 for checking and a small photocopier.

[bbdivo]

To be perfectly honest, its up to the individual how much they think its worth to them. For example if the NCS charged double or even three times as much, I would gladly pay (knowing that my application has a very high probability of being turned around in under a month) £68 for a citizenship ceremony? Granted they are not doing much but after that I will be a British Citizen able to apply for my British Passport and after which will have Visa Free travel to a rather large number of countrys and more importantly be able to call my folks over (eventually) when they retire, again in my opinion worth paying.

[Joseph]

John, It looks like you were quoted an excellent price. If one knows a solicitor who is a friend, the price can even be free. On the other hand, solicitors could charge more, approaching the cost of notaries which are at least £50.

I don't want to start a new debate about notary fees, but see the following article. I still think the council fee is not too unreasonable. After all, the Home Office has to incentivize them to do these ceremonies. For example, a marriage ceremony would cost about the same, so if the council got the same as a marriage ceremony, it would make it well worth their while. Yes, they would even make money with group ceremonies!

The reality is that the government wants to use naturalisation to promote their political agenda, whatever that is. It is also in line with the practice in the US and other countries to have ceremonies. Now they are even imposing the ceremonies on British nationals, who are not really required to swear the oath because they already owe allegence to the Queen. I would agree that that's not nice, but it's not really a major deal is it?

Regarding privatization of NCS, keep in mind that NCS centres have to be certified by the OISC, just like immigration advisors and solicitors. People who go through the trouble of getting certified by the OISC generally don't offer their services cheaply.

Joseph

Notarial fees in England and Wales
by Bruce Ritchie
Solicitors should consider whether documents sent for signature in England need to be notarised as it will cost much less to have it signed before a solicitor
The Journal, January 2003, page 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Society has received a letter from the Notaries Society in England regarding notarial fees in England and Wales. The minimum fee chargeable by a notary even for an affidavit is £50 plus VAT, and solicitors who are corresponding with clients and others resident in England asking them to have a document notarised should consider whether it is necessary to have that done before an English notary or whether it would be sufficient to have the documents signed before a solicitor whose charges will be significantly lower.

Bruce Ritchie Director of Professional Practice

[Joseph]

Regarding NCS fees, it pays to shop around. They vary considerably, particularly as regards to family members. Some charge a fixed fee for multiple children and others charge per child. As with everthing there is competition.
Joseph

[basis]

I think again enough has been said on the topic. No one on this MB has a control over the fees being charged. For NCS - one can choose not to go that way with a number of disadvantages. With Citizenship Ceremony no choice - I agree though that in both cases it is pure exploitation due to monopoly and need of individuals. But is there a point in discussing it here and blaming each other. Lets' face it its a FACT of life.

[John]

Joseph, Notories are notoriously expensive. There was/is absolutely no need for anyone to go to a Notory to sign a Statutory Declaration. Solicitors are distinctly cheaper .... and if anyone knows a JP (Magistrate) they will do it for free.!

We are not talking here about anyone drafting any document ... merely completing a document that already exists.

As regards Citizenship Ceremonies :-

the Home Office has to incentivize them to do these ceremonies

-: surely not! In accordance with the law Councils are required to organise them. They don't need to be incentivised at all.

[Joseph]

Hi John,

I really don't want to argue every point I make on this board.

By my posts on this string, I'm merely trying to encourage people by casting a positive light on the situation. Basis just said it perfectly: NCS and citizenship ceremonies are facts of life that we have to live with. Some people may look at them as good things and others can look at them as bad things. But the fact is that Naturalisation is a voluntary act; nobody is forcing anyone to pay the fees.

Joseph

[John]

Joseph, I totally agree. The whole process for British Citizenship is now very easy and the great majority of applicants are clearly not going to have any problem.

My wife's friend, from Thailand, a spouse of a British Citizen, went to the Newcastle NCS about a week before the end of October. Yesterday she received the acceptance letter. Given the no-doubt above-average numbers of applications received in late October, ahead of the new requirements that came in on 01.11.05, I am amazed just how quickly they are clearing those applications. Well done IND!

Just surprised that with lots of people hearing back within just a few days that IND still say the average is over 4 months. That must mean that some people are waiting a year or more for their decision.

[Joseph]

Thanks John,
I think you may be quite right that many people are still waiting a year or more.

My theory is that most people still go the postal route and that they still average about 4 months. Keep in mind that the people who use this Board are biased toward (and benefiting from) NCS. I calculated earlier that the intake of applications (or at least individual citizenship requests) is about 500 per working day. There must still be a lot of postal applications.

If the above is true, it shows that NCS provides a clear benefit and is a good deal.

Joseph

[JAJ]

Now they are even imposing the ceremonies on British nationals, who are not really required to swear the oath because they already owe allegence to the Queen. I would agree that that's not nice, but it's not really a major deal is it?

Does anyone know if British nationals have to take the Oath as well as the Pledge? The Pledge to the United Kingdom is something understandable, the Oath for someone who's already British is less so.

Although it's worth observing that British protected persons have always been required to take an Oath of Allegiance.

As far as I understand, British citizens seeking to become naturalised British overseas territories citizens are also required to take a Pledge (not to the UK, but to the relevant territory). Do they need to take the Oath as well in such cases?

[Rogerio]

K2004,

why did you use the NCS? You could have sent your passport, and waited.... and waited.... and waited....

OR

you could have had a solicitor to take a certified photocopy of each page for your passport for around £5 or so, and you would get to keep your passport.

Now, to say that this is another way to get money from the immigrants, is, in my humble opinion, a simply ridiculous statement. One, you are not forced to use it. Two, I guess a industrialised nation like the UK can get a few more pounds from manufacturing goods than collecting £35 from would be British.

My 2p.

[ppron747]

Does anyone know if British nationals have to take the Oath as well as the Pledge? The Pledge to the United Kingdom is something understandable, the Oath for someone who's already British is less so.

Although it's worth observing that British protected persons have always been required to take an Oath of Allegiance.

As far as I understand, British citizens seeking to become naturalised British overseas territories citizens are also required to take a Pledge (not to the UK, but to the relevant territory). Do they need to take the Oath as well in such cases?

The legislation (NIAA 2002, Schedule 1) refers to "...the relevant citizenship oath and pledge specified in Schedule 5... ", which I think settles the question.

I take the point that for a British national to take the Oath could be argued to be unnecessary, but the other side of the coin is that the requirement means that they are actually acknowledging the fact that they now owe allegiance to the Crown.

It might be worth mentioning that Members of Parliament in UK are required to take the Oath of Allegiance to the Crown in a public ceremony. There has occasionally been controversy over this, when a newly-elected MP was known to have republican views, but I've never heard of an MP complaining that he or she already owes allegiance, and therefore shouldn't have to swear it. I don't know whether the Oath requirement applies to other elected or appointed offices

BPPs have always been required to take the Oath because BPPs have never been subjects of the Queen.

[K2004]

ok guys...it seems that everyone is happy with the NCS service and they think that it is worth every penny, maybe I am the only one who wasnt very impressed with the service. so I guess you all win.

but I still think that £35 is an expensive price for photocopy and post... the actual CHECKING service took the girl no more than 30 seconds (seriously)...I even had all my p60's /bank statments/ pay slips/some employers letters,,,, but she ddidnt want to know about them... !!!

so the reason we use NCS is becasue we get a faster approval,, not because we want them to check our application...which defeat the subject of NCS...

anyway good luck for all

[John]

But they do check the application! If any needed documentation is missing then they would point that out, or if the application is not properly completed they would do the same.

Some friends of ours went to the Newcastle NCS office last month. There was a document missing. After they got back home they sent that by Special Delivery to the NCS office (50 miles away), who only then forwarded the application on to Liverpool. They have since received the "application successful" letter.

Also, do not overlook the importance of getting your passport handed straight back to you by the NCS office. Compared to ... postal applications .... you would be missing possession of your passports for weeks or months. Or need to go to the expense of getting a certified copy ... which could well cost you more than the NCS fee.