naturalisation certificate needs amending

[voipuk]

Dear all,

I received my natualisation certificate on 15th Nov but found the detail of country of birth was incorrect. I posted it back to Liverpoor at the same day. I was expecting to receive a new one in a few days. However, I phoned them up today and was told it would take 6- 8 WEEKS to process. Is this true? I have been waiting 8 weeks to get my case approved. Now I am going to wait another 8 weeks to get it right. It sounds crazy to me!

[Kayalami]

Perhaps the experience by User highlights the issue around correction timelines.

[voipuk]

Perhaps the experience by User highlights the issue around correction timelines.

Does anyone experience the same situation here? Please advise your case!

[Joseph]

voipuk

Thanks for the feedback. Please also take a look at the postings (starting from 15 October) on my related string.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=15

Both User and Yorkking have similar experiences, although Yorkking's is more recent. My family and I will pick up my wife's defective certificate in a week's time, so we will have to do the same thing.

As Yorkking has advised, you should be prepared to enlist the support of your MP if you think the delay is unreasonable. You can say you need the passport to travel. With the MP's intervention you should be able to lessen the time considerably. Yorkking's MP was able to reduce it to 7 days.

Let us know how you progress; I'm right behind you!

Joseph

[yorkking]

I would recommend to approach the local MP immediately and his letter to the HO would do the magic!!!!!!!!
It did for me.

[voipuk]

I would recommend to approach the local MP immediately and his letter to the HO would do the magic!!!!!!!!
It did for me.

Well, i think i will wait for 7-10 working days and may contact MP thereafter if no news from HO.

By the way, is the certificate of naturalisation the only document to prove myself a bristish citizen? In Sheffield, I aslo received a certificate issued by CITY COUNCIL with Mayor's signature which welcomes me as a new British Citizen. Can this certificate be used as proof when apply for UK passport?

[John]

In Sheffield, I aslo received a certificate issued by CITY COUNCIL with Mayor's signature which welcomes me as a new British Citizen. Can this certificate be used as proof when apply for UK passport?

I suspect that Mayor will be disappointed but feel the need to say ... no, sorry, that certificate could not be used to support an application for a British Passport. You will need to wait for your Naturalisation Certificate (hopefully correct) to arrive.

[voipuk]

i have been thinking about the issue of correction of certificate. My name date of birth, and place of birth are correct. Only the country of birth isn't 100% correct which maybe acceptable if this is not going to show on the UK passport. I checked the UK passport of my son, and only place of birth would show on it. Can i give up the request of correction and ask HO to return my certificate?

Two of my friends received their certificate in Sept. and Oct. respectively. We are planning to have a very International trips by late Dec. that will cover serval countries in West and East Europe. I do want my certificate back with or without correction!! Any idea here?

Besides, what's the best way to contact HO? By phone or letter?

[Joseph]

The best way to contact them is by phone 0845 010 5200, although it is not easy to get through. You have to keep trying!

I think user asked the question before and their response was that you should get the certificate corrected before applying for the passport. Theoretically you could have sent the certificate in with the passport, but that could create problems later on when you try to get the certificate corrected (i.e. the copy on file with the Passport Office is wrong).

It doesn't really matter in your case because you already sent it in. Don't wait 7-10 days; contact your MP now. You already know it takes 6-8 weeks, which is unacceptable for you because of your travel needs. If you do this now, you might get it all sorted out in a week or two.

BTW, the passport instructions specifically say that only the Home Office certificate is valid, not any "ceremonial certificates" you may have been presented with at the same time. Those should be framed and put in your study.

Question: Was your son born in the UK or abroad? If it's the latter, I'm surprised that the country of birth is not listed on the UK passport.

Joseph

[yorkking]

I would suggest to approach the MP now and send your original certificate with a letter of recommendation from him since HO does not have any SLAs published on this front rather than wait 10 days to approach the MP and wait for another 10 days.

[John]

Was your son born in the UK or abroad? If it's the latter, I'm surprised that the country of birth is not listed on the UK passport.

Joseph, that seems to be how they do it. The British passports for both my wife and step-daughter, both born outside the UK, say just their respective town/city of birth, and not the country.

So unless someone happens to know which countries those places are in, well, they could easily be born in some obscure Welsh village!

[voipuk]

Question: Was your son born in the UK or abroad? If it's the latter, I'm surprised that the country of birth is not listed on the UK passport.

Joseph

My son was born in the UK.

[voipuk]

The problem of mine is i am not sure HO did this to me on purpose or by error.

I am from Taiwan. Its full country name is REPUBLIC OF CHINA. But to most of countries in the world including UK, the full country name doesn't exist at all. However, HO used " CHINA , PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA" as my country of birth which is incorrect to ME. I am not raising international political issue here. I am just thinking that this may become very complicated if I have to explain to HO about the difference between REPUBLIC OF CHINA and PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA.

The reason I thought it was HO's mistake was because my Taiwanese friends' certificates did not show " CHINA , PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA".

This is realy annoying to me. Any suggestion? Would drop my case and ask the certificate back a good idea? Advices pls.......

[Joseph]

John,
Thanks for the clarification. I just assumed the UK was like other countries, showing the country.

voipuk
You have a very valid (political and practical) concern, and you definitely should get your certificate corrected so that there is no confusion.

BTW, I just checked the online application form for the UK passport and was rather surprised to see three options for country of birth as related to China:

1. CHINA
2. TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA
3. HONG KONG

Is Taiwan already a province of China, as suggested by the above choice on the UKPA application form? Is that how your friends have the country listed on their naturalisation certificates? Even Hong Kong seems to have a more sovereign status than Taiwan according to the above choices. I guess that's how the Foreign Office views it.

Joseph

[ppron747]

The problem of mine is i am not sure HO did this to me on purpose or by error.

I am from Taiwan. Its full country name is REPUBLIC OF CHINA. But to most of countries in the world including UK, the full country name doesn't exist at all. However, HO used " CHINA , PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA" as my country of birth which is incorrect to ME. I am not raising international political issue here. I am just thinking that this may become very complicated if I have to explain to HO about the difference between REPUBLIC OF CHINA and PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA.

The reason I thought it was HO's mistake was because my Taiwanese friends' certificates did not show " CHINA , PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA".

This is realy annoying to me. Any suggestion? Would drop my case and ask the certificate back a good idea? Advices pls.......

A quick question: Does your naturalisation certificate specify your town of birth, or does it just give the (wrong!) country?

[John]

It might be helpful to note the following. And I have just checked the documentation that is in this house.

The Certificate of Naturalisation for my wife and the Certificate of Registration for my step-daughter both state their town/city of birth and also the country in which that town/city is situated.

Obviously those certificates were supplied when the British passports were applied for but nevertheless their British passports give only the town/city of birth and do not include the country of birth.

Accordingly Voipuk you might indeed ask for the Certificate of Naturalisation back ... at least so you can get a British passport speedily. You can always get the country name corrected later on the Certificate of Naturalisation.

[ppron747]

....BTW, I just checked the online application form for the UK passport and was rather surprised to see three options for country of birth as related to China:

1. CHINA
2. TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA
3. HONG KONG

Is Taiwan already a province of China, as suggested by the above choice on the UKPA application form? Is that how your friends have the country listed on their naturalisation certificates? Even Hong Kong seems to have a more sovereign status than Taiwan according to the above choices. I guess that's how the Foreign Office views it.

Joseph

I'm fairly sure that that isn't how the Foreign Office views it....

Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region (SAR) of China: it isn't a sovereign country, but issues its own passports and has a citizenship of its own, so it is correctly listed as a different entity from mainland China.

AIUI Taiwan is regarded by the PRC as being a province, but the FCO website lists it as a separate territory, while acknowledging that the UK doesn't have diplomatic relations with it. (There is a British office - not called an Embassy - in Taipei, and a Taiwanese office in London). I suspect the description of Taiwan as a province of China in the online passport application is simply a programming error.

I believe the policy on place names in passports is that, unless there is more than one town with the same name, the country is omitted - although I'm not sure that it is particularly strictly observed. But I've certainly seen "Kingston, Jamaica" - presumably to avoid confusion with - upon Thames or - upon Hull. I've also seen "Hull, Canada" for the same reason.

If OP is intending to apply for a passport before getting his certificate changed, it would be sensible to include an explanatory letter, and a certified copy of his Taiwan birth certificate, to make sure that the UKPS are formally informed of the error, so that if they forget their normal policy and put "Taiwan, PRC" (or something similar) in his passport, he doesn't end up paying for the passport to be corrected.

[Joseph]

voipuk

Sorry for sidetracking the discussion. Back to your key question about whether you should ask for the certificate back, I suggest:

1. You ring them at the 0845 010 5200 number and fully explain the situation, saying you need to travel soon and need a naturalisation certificate for a UK passport.

2. Ask them what they suggest is the quickest way to resolve the problem:

• a)returning the current certificate as is or
  b)amending it now and sending the new one to you straight away.

Tell them if they return the current certificate, you will send it back to them for amendment after you have applied for the UK passport.

Hopefully, they will decide to amend the certificate quickly and send it to you, ending the matter quickly for everbody (especially themselves). They may tell you that since you returned the certificate and it is clearly wrong (their fault), they cannot return it to you. In any case, if they don't give you a satisfactory answer, you should contact your MP straightaway.

If they do return the current certificate and you try to use it with the UKPA, there is no guarantee that there won't be problems with the UKPA, especially since there are instances raised by Paul where the country could be included in the passport. Unfortunately, you will not get a good answer on this until you submit the passport application. The naturalisation people will not speak for the the passport people.

Good luck with your phone call.

Joseph

[Joseph]

FYI, I rang the Nationality Helpline to see what I should do with my wife’s certificate, i.e. whether she can first send it to UKPA to get the British passport and then send it back to Liverpool for correction. Her maiden name is misspelt, which doesn’t matter for the passport anyway.

The agent told me that she could try to do this, and the passport will probably be issued. He then said there will probably be problems when she tried to get the certificate amended. That is because the first thing they do before reissuing a certificate is check the database to see if a passport was issued against the certificate. If a passport was not issued, no problem, but if a passport has already been issued, then reissuing the certificate is much more complicated because there is an incorrect copy already on file with UKPA, etc. Anyway, his advice was to get the certificate corrected before applying for the passport.

Voipuk, they may tell you the same thing when you call them.

Joseph

[John]

There is something else I am not understanding here! Or have IND changed their procedure?

After the Naturalisation application was accepted for my wife she received an very official looking document headed .... British Citizenship in the top left ... printed white on red ... and Citizenship Invitation in the middle of the top ... printed white on blue.

That document ... near the bottom of the page ... has a section headed "Certificate details" .... and indeed the full details that would end up on the Naturalisation certificate.

And it states :-

The personal details below will appear on the certificate. If they are incorrect please do not book your ceremony; telephone 0151 237 5443 or 5445 to speak to the Citizenship Ceremony Support Team.

So which is it? Have IND changed their procedure? Or are people simply neglecting to check that detail? And thus ending up with a certificate with incorrect detail?

[Joseph]

John

The procedure has indeed changed. The second sentence of your quote now says:

If the details on your certificate are incorrect you should still arrange a ceremony, and return the certificate to us for amendment afterwards. You should also send a copy of your passport or birth certificate as evidence of the correct details.

Joseph

[John]

Joseph, noted.

I think I have to say ... IND, making that change was not a good idea! Suggest you change back to the previous wording! Cut out the hassle of reissuing certificates .... it is causing you more work!

[voipuk]

[quote="ppron747"][quote="Joseph
If OP is intending to apply for a passport before getting his certificate changed, it would be sensible to include an explanatory letter, and a certified copy of his Taiwan birth certificate, to make sure that the UKPS are formally informed of the error, so that if they forget their normal policy and put "Taiwan, PRC" (or something similar) in his passport, he doesn't end up paying for the passport to be corrected.[/quote]

Indeed, this is my worry. That could be a shortcut at beginning but end up with much more complicated situatioin.

[voipuk]

i finally managed to speak to a kind lady in IND today and explained the error I mentioned. She said it should not show Taiwan, China together and obviously it was an error. They will correct it and send me back. She also said there was a long cue and my case would take 4-6 weeks to be done.

[voipuk]

[quote="ppron747"][quote="voipuk"]
This is realy annoying to me. Any suggestion? Would drop my case and ask the certificate back a good idea? Advices pls.......[/quote]

A quick question: Does your naturalisation certificate specify your town of birth, or does it just give the (wrong!) country?[/quote]

This is what it shows on the cerfificate:
town, Taiwan , China ( PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA)