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It's not dearly beloved to say 'sorry, we're full'

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Ben
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It's not dearly beloved to say 'sorry, we're full'

Post by Ben » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:39 am

Independent.ie wrote:The current debacle in Mosney was rightly declared by the Free Legal Advice Centre to be "an accident waiting to happen", but it also brings up some other, wider issues.

In fact, the whole debate about refugees/asylum seekers, or whatever you want to call them, is a boil that needs to be lanced.

Indeed, the debate has become completely poisoned by professional Left-wing advocates who immediately denounce anyone with a dissenting voice as a dearly beloved.

This reached the height of wicked stupidity when the Immigrant Council of Ireland actually went to the police and tried to have Kevin Myers prosecuted because he had written a piece about Africa that they didn't like.

This is the country we now live in, where government-funded groups would have journalists arrested on the grounds that they said something that didn't fit their ideology.

And because of this Stalinist urge to purge anyone who dares to deviate from the same hymn sheet, most people prefer to just keep their head down and say nothing rather than have a horde of screaming morons descend on them making the spurious accusation of beloved.

But ask yourself this -- those of us in our mid-to-late 30s were the last emigration generation and when we applied for visas to the States or Australia, we knew the rules of engagement.

Australia, in particular, was quite open about their entry requirements -- if you possessed a skill they wanted or needed, you got in. If not, you didn't.

It wasn't dearly beloved; it was just one of those things.

Now, in Ireland, we need to stop beating around the bush and start uttering some harsh truths.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Mosney situation, it's time for Ireland to admit that, sorry, we're full.

We simply cannot afford to accommodate any more people who, through free accommodation, free legal advice, food, clothing and so on, become a burden on the State from the moment they arrive on Irish soil.

That's not beloved, that's simply a case of pragmatic self-interest.

And, before you start to bleat that we need to take account of the horrid lives and hideous countries these people invariably come from, you can answer back -- do we really?

On a human level, obviously it is impossible not to feel compassion for some of the stories we hear on a daily basis from refugees and asylum seekers, but the reality is that no matter how heart-rending their stories may be, ultimately they are not our problem.

At what point did Ireland suddenly have a moral obligation to look after people who had probably never even heard of this country until they got here?

At what point did we have a moral obligation to provide care and comfort and take on the financial burden of people who have no identifiable skills, who can't speak the language and who, alongside their children, will only ever take from a system they never contributed to in the first place?

Look, I can't blame people for wanting to come here from there.

Having said that, the State has an obligation towards its own citizens first.

We have more of a right to access the country's education, health and social welfare provisions than someone who only arrived here last week.

Is that dearly beloved? Is it now dearly beloved to point out that the vast amounts of money spent on the asylum process and the seekers themselves would have been better spent maintaining and preventing the HSE cuts to the already lamentable support given to respite carers?

Of course, the hundreds, if not thousands of people riding the asylum gravy train will immediately take their head out of the financial trough they've been gorging on for years and start to scream about beloved/lovely/whatever you're having yourself.

But as the new Australian PM Julia Gillard pointed out this week, being concerned about the number of people who come to your country and are just a burden does not make you a dearly beloved.

She is to be congratulated on having the stones to say what the average Irish politician, or indeed person, would think but not say.

Left-wing advocates would have you believe that if you harbour any doubts at all about untrammelled immigration not being a good thing, then you belong in the British National Party.

And, ironically, because they have been so successful in stifling proper debate and slurring people they disagree with, this has left a vacuum which the likes of the BNP were quick to fill.

Here in Ireland, you only have to listen to some radio phone-in shows and read Irish blogs to see what true beloved really is -- ugly, spiteful, ignorant and full of an irrational hate.

Indeed, it happened to me a while back when a woman rang the office to say fair play for not being politically correct. When I said thanks, she then went to add: "You're a good man, Iano, I f***ing hate niggers as well."

It was a profoundly depressing moment; the realisation that because nobody wants to talk reasonably about this issue, as soon as someone does, the lovey think they have a mouthpiece.

I don't answer my phone any more.

But what the likes of that moron who rang, or the hate-spewing rabble of the phone-in shows, prove is that ignorance, stupidity and contempt for common sense is not limited solely to the activists on the Left.
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Tandor
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Re: It's not dearly beloved to say 'sorry, we're full'

Post by Tandor » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:23 am

Ben wrote:
Independent.ie wrote: At what point did Ireland suddenly have a moral obligation to look after people who had probably never even heard of this country until they got here?

At what point did we have a moral obligation to provide care and comfort and take on the financial burden of people who have no identifiable skills, who can't speak the language and who, alongside their children, will only ever take from a system they never contributed to in the first place?
Right about at this point I think: - 25 Feb 1953

http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/Commu ... 005&CL=ENG

This argument is skewed. Immigration and Asylum should be kept seperate, it seems the author cannot understand the difference.

Ben
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Re: It's not dearly beloved to say 'sorry, we're full'

Post by Ben » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:35 am

Independent.ie wrote:At what point did we have a moral obligation to provide care and comfort and take on the financial burden of people who have no identifiable skills, who can't speak the language and who, alongside their children, will only ever take from a system they never contributed to in the first place?
I completely agree. It is undeniably impossible that the persons in question will ever get a job and pay tax or PRSI. Ever.
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9jeirean
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Post by 9jeirean » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:55 am

Here in Ireland, you only have to listen to some radio phone-in shows and read Irish blogs to see what true beloved really is -- ugly, spiteful, ignorant and full of an irrational hate.

Indeed, it happened to me a while back when a woman rang the office to say fair play for not being politically correct. When I said thanks, she then went to add: "You're a good man, Iano, I f***ing hate niggers as well."

It was a profoundly depressing moment; the realisation that because nobody wants to talk reasonably about this issue, as soon as someone does, the lovey think they have a mouthpiece
The above IMO is the fundamental problem. One that I think everyone from the government, the media and the average Joe on the street has a share of the blame. The media would only publish news articles about immigrants only when they relate to bogus asylum seekers, and those on the other side of the law. You hardly see/read in the media the number of Nigerian trained Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc that are positively contributing to the development of different sectors of the Irish state. Of course it would not be politically correct to do so.

The message from he media to the public is every foreign person you meet around are here mostly to milk the system. The Nigerian bus driver that drives you to work every morning is a one-off. The Zimbabwean nurse that looks after the old folk in the nursing home must have been a mistake. "Sure she must also be milking social welfare by the sides. Don't they all do?". The Philipino nurses save all the money and take it back to their country. That's a drain on Irish resources, in'it? To most Immigration = Asylum seekers = Drain on Irish resources. Why? Because that is what the media feed us with and of course it sits down well with deep seated stereotype so it must be right. There was a series of ads on the TV I think about 2-3 years ago chronicling different areas where immigrants were contributing to different aspect of Irish life. It was quickly pulled before you can say 'where is Sean Fitzpatrick'.

I agreed with Ian O'Doherty about the fundamental failure of the government to provide leadership and balanced information on immigration in Ireland. Mary Harney and Michael McDowell when they were minsters for trade and enterprise and justice respectively had to bring in a policy to fast track employment of high skilled professionals to core areas of Irish economy as the sate couldn't recruit fast enough. Ask from the former Eastern Regional Health Authority ERHA, and th rest of the 8 health boards as they were then how many nurses, Doctors, physiotherapists etc they went to recruit from Nigeria, Zimbabwe and south Africa. Don't even start about the Philippine. The record is there till tomorrow.

Of course it is convenient to blame the immigrant. but any government that presides over a refuge application/asylum process spanning over 5 years deserves the kind of embarrassment the Mosney situation now throw at us.

The media can help in a lot of ways. Blaming the people caught in between the web of failure of the Irish system is no way to move this great country forward. We can all become more proactive at challenging the authority about the need for a more efficient system, open and balanced information.
What lies behind us and ahead of us is nothing compared to what lies within us

9jeirean
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Re: It's not dearly beloved to say 'sorry, we're full'

Post by 9jeirean » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:56 am

Tandor wrote:
Ben wrote:
Independent.ie wrote: At what point did Ireland suddenly have a moral obligation to look after people who had probably never even heard of this country until they got here?

At what point did we have a moral obligation to provide care and comfort and take on the financial burden of people who have no identifiable skills, who can't speak the language and who, alongside their children, will only ever take from a system they never contributed to in the first place?
Right about at this point I think: - 25 Feb 1953

http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/Commu ... 005&CL=ENG

This argument is skewed. Immigration and Asylum should be kept seperate, it seems the author cannot understand the difference.
I concur, and that is a fundamental misinformation that needs to be addressed.
What lies behind us and ahead of us is nothing compared to what lies within us

Obie
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Ireland

Post by Obie » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:14 pm

Ireland has an obligation under international law to look after people who enter their shores seeking sanctuary.

They can utter all the negative rhetoric about immigrant and immigration, but the bottom line is, you cannot simply throw asylum seekers out because you perceive they will in future be an unreasonable burden to the state. The right of a refugee to protection under international law, is not subject to the condition they do not resort to public fund. There is a moral and legal obligation on the host state to access the claims of this individual, and the due process of the law to be adhered to, and not the blanket refusal and shambles taking place at present.

Australia is not a bench mark for good practice when it comes to refugee and immigrant. Race relation is not an area that the aussies are specialist in. Their history speaks for itself.

UN has critized Australia for having a dearly beloved immigration policy, and incidentally, Australia is one/only western national without a Human Right law. Sooooooooooo


Myers is nothing but a common lovey, who picks on Africans and vulnerable members of society. A silly man who had the guts to say africa only offers the world Aids, is not someone that is worth waisting a breath on.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

smalltime
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Post by smalltime » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:17 pm

with great power comes great responsibility
pen pen de sarapin de kutsilyo de armasen
haw haw de karabaw de batutin

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