Irish passports among most difficult to get in EU

[kdnadh]

Hi Guys,

I seen this news on paper i am just wondering if any one applied for socialwelfare still they got Citizenship. Share info please..

Regards,

Kdnadh

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 48437.html

Irish passports among most difficult to get in EU


By Aideen Sheehan
Wednesday July 07 2010

IRELAND is one of the hardest countries in Europe for foreign residents to get citizenship.

The number of people who got citizenship here fell by a third to just 3,250 in 2008, and is a tiny fraction of the rate across the rest of Europe, new figures from Eurostat show.

Ireland granted just six citizenships per 1,000 foreign residents -- compared with more than 50 per 1000 in Sweden and Portugal, and an average of 23 across the EU. Only the Czech Republic was less generous, bestowing citizenship on just three people per 1,000 foreign residents, while Luxembourg was on a par with Ireland.

Across Europe, some 696,000 people acquired citizenship of an EU state in 2008, down slightly on the 2007 level.

Most came from Africa (29pc), other European countries (22pc), Asia (19pc) and North and South America (17pc).

Natives of Morocco, Turkey, Ecuador, Algeria and Iraq were the most frequent recipients of citizenship in the EU, with many following strong historical links to their new homelands, such as Algerians and Moroccans to France, Turks to Germany and Ecuadoreans to Spain.

Delays

In Ireland people from Nigeria were the biggest group of new citizens, accounting for 319 new citizens -- or 10pc of the total -- followed by Pakistan with 196 new citizens (6pc) and India with 163 (5pc).

The Immigrant Council of Ireland (ICI) said there were serious problems with cost, delays and lack of transparency in the naturalisation process in Ireland which is run by the Department of Justice.

In particular, there were problems with the requirement to be of "good character" with no guidelines as to what this meant.

The justice minister had absolute discretion over whether to grant an application or not and frequently refused applications on the grounds somebody had come to the 'adverse attention' of the gardai, even where they had never been charged or convicted of any offence, said ICI senior solicitor Catherine Cosgrave.

There were also delays of up to four years or more in processing applications.

Feedback

"Applications are also refused on the grounds of having been in receipt of social welfare payments including short periods of time following redundancy," said Ms Cosgrave.

The Department of Justice said that it expected the number of citizenships granted this year to rise to around 5,000, an increase of 28pc on 2008 levels. A number of refinements had also been introduced in the past year, including identity checking and giving feedback within a week of receipt of application.

And the average processing time had been reduced from 30 to 26 months.

The department was also reviewing the whole citizenship process and considering the introduction of language and integration tests -- but it stressed this was a privilege rather than an entitlement for would-be recipients.

- Aideen Sheehan

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[IQU]

i often seen the delays in citizenship department.people from 2006 years still waiting for there application decision.its recession in ireland alots of foriegn nationals also losts jobs.but if they claim for social welfare benefit there application turn down.its not fair for the people who are contribute to irish ecomny for years.i checked also see the difference they are telling 26 months application processing time .its not true .its really slow processing system .you not going to get yours citizenship within 26 months.means tax query,garda query,gnib query,birthcerficate query,referncee query etc.they should recurit more people in citizenship dept.

[doesnotcompute]

i often seen the delays in citizenship department.people from 2006 years still waiting for there application decision.its recession in ireland alots of foriegn nationals also losts jobs.but if they claim for social welfare benefit there application turn down.its not fair for the people who are contribute to irish ecomny for years.i checked also see the difference they are telling 26 months application processing time .its not true .its really slow processing system .you not going to get yours citizenship within 26 months.means tax query,garda query,gnib query,birthcerficate query,referncee query etc.they should recurit more people in citizenship dept.

I think the Minister likes it this way - the process is slow, so that they can preserve the integrity of Irish citizenship, and ensure that all the proper checks are done, and done thoroughly in order to keep Irish citizenship above-board.

[IQU]

but this slow process is not fair for thousands of immigrant contribute to irish ecomony for years .its recession now if non eu take socail welfare his/her application is turn down.they have to see the circustamces in individal case rather than refusing the immigrant worker.i can understand this way means slow process refusing application etc control the immigration problem but to be honest irish govt have to show non eu worker ireland is their home especailly people working here years and years.doj to treat people with respect so they can believe in doj rather than spending euro to lawyers.they have to treat non eu with respect not likes a criminals.i always respect the law .i am here more than 15 years never make any offence in any country.never ever take any penny from social welfare .but still i am waitng for my citizenship application to process faster rather than waiting from last 4 years ............

[walrusgumble]

Hi Guys,

I seen this news on paper i am just wondering if any one applied for socialwelfare still they got Citizenship. Share info please..

Regards,

Kdnadh

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 48437.html

Irish passports among most difficult to get in EU


By Aideen Sheehan
Wednesday July 07 2010

IRELAND is one of the hardest countries in Europe for foreign residents to get citizenship.

The number of people who got citizenship here fell by a third to just 3,250 in 2008, and is a tiny fraction of the rate across the rest of Europe, new figures from Eurostat show.

Ireland granted just six citizenships per 1,000 foreign residents -- compared with more than 50 per 1000 in Sweden and Portugal, and an average of 23 across the EU. Only the Czech Republic was less generous, bestowing citizenship on just three people per 1,000 foreign residents, while Luxembourg was on a par with Ireland.

Across Europe, some 696,000 people acquired citizenship of an EU state in 2008, down slightly on the 2007 level.

Most came from Africa (29pc), other European countries (22pc), Asia (19pc) and North and South America (17pc).

Natives of Morocco, Turkey, Ecuador, Algeria and Iraq were the most frequent recipients of citizenship in the EU, with many following strong historical links to their new homelands, such as Algerians and Moroccans to France, Turks to Germany and Ecuadoreans to Spain.

Delays

In Ireland people from Nigeria were the biggest group of new citizens, accounting for 319 new citizens -- or 10pc of the total -- followed by Pakistan with 196 new citizens (6pc) and India with 163 (5pc).

The Immigrant Council of Ireland (ICI) said there were serious problems with cost, delays and lack of transparency in the naturalisation process in Ireland which is run by the Department of Justice.

In particular, there were problems with the requirement to be of "good character" with no guidelines as to what this meant.

The justice minister had absolute discretion over whether to grant an application or not and frequently refused applications on the grounds somebody had come to the 'adverse attention' of the gardai, even where they had never been charged or convicted of any offence, said ICI senior solicitor Catherine Cosgrave.

There were also delays of up to four years or more in processing applications.

Feedback

"Applications are also refused on the grounds of having been in receipt of social welfare payments including short periods of time following redundancy," said Ms Cosgrave.

The Department of Justice said that it expected the number of citizenships granted this year to rise to around 5,000, an increase of 28pc on 2008 levels. A number of refinements had also been introduced in the past year, including identity checking and giving feedback within a week of receipt of application.

And the average processing time had been reduced from 30 to 26 months.

The department was also reviewing the whole citizenship process and considering the introduction of language and integration tests -- but it stressed this was a privilege rather than an entitlement for would-be recipients.

- Aideen Sheehan

Search Go ©Independent.ie Sitemap | E-mail sign-up | Contact Us | About Us | Terms & Conditions | Privacy | Advertise with us | Group Websites

I would have a different attitude. If you compare the requirements for other countries, particularily the former Russian/UUSR statelets (sorry don't mean to offend if the term is offensive) Irish requirements are rather simple. Ireland does not require a knowledge of the countries history, language profeciency (English - I know 3 cases were a national of a particular nationality was granted citizenship and had little or no ability to speak english, though seemed to know what the score was when money was mentioned, maybe he and she pretended when it suited). I think Greece requires residence for 10 years. I also know scores of cases where the naturalised person fecked off to the UK and never to return. If they get into serious trouble then it is the Irish Embassy that has to put up with the flak from the Brits.

The reason, though absolutely no excuse, for the difficulties under Irish situation, is because the simplicity of obtaining Irish citizen that so many applications have been made and it takes time to deal with them all. Does not help when some people lie in their applications. With knowledge of the possibility, the department have to do back ground checks with social, gardai and revenue amongst others. This can cause delay to through no fault of the INIS.

It would not be much to ask that non nationals try and refrain from seeking social welfare and for complying with the law of the land. With regard to the former, this requirement only requires one to be free from certain welfare for at least 3 years before making an application. For many a non national who is here on the basis of parentage to an irish citizen child, they seem to have a misunderstanding, in theory at least, that their presence is solely for the purpose of raising the child here in ireland. What happens when the child turns 18 years or 21 years if in education and the parent is not an irish citizen / eu? THey are no longer required - this remains to be seen what happens (unlikely to be told to leave) They seem to forget that there were told clearly, that they must

(a) refrain from criminal activity (road traffic offences are criminal offences, in nearly every country)
(b) remain economically viable or studying

Now reality, any parents coming into any country for the first time often require and need assistance via welfare, rent allowances etc (it cannot be denied that non nationals in this position get a bad deal as they are treated the same as Irish in this regard, despite the fact that they are not EU citizens), but the State or any State for that fact should not have to be expected to guarantee this support all the time, particularily when the economy is solid and the parent is abled bodies to work.

The same situation for a person on a work permit, though in this case, where they have worked for a number of years and paid taxes etc they should get some leniency in being allowed to stay to look for work, and shouldn't be heavily punished if applying for citizenship. It would be a matter of facts on a case by case basis.

The good character requirement, has made it crystal clear from other refusals that the one is required to not come to the adverse attention of the garda and commit an offence

[IQU]

thanks for your reply.every body have own opinions.we have to respect every body opinion.thanks for yours reply.any more reply much apprecited

[scrudu]

Walrusgrumble: I think you're completely off the mark there. When comparing the waiting times to other countries for processing, you should compare the processing times, and not the residency requirement. If Ireland wants to raise the residency requirement from 3-5 yrs (marriage to Irish citizen vs work permits) to 5-7 yrs or whatever, they are free to do so. If they think they need people to prove for longer that they are a good prospect as a future citizen, then if needed, make them wait longer to apply. It is ridiculous to say that you need 5 years residency to get citizenship, but then we need to wait a further 2-4 years to "ensure you are really of good character" and won't ever require State assistance.

Also, if the DoJ require more information for the application, then ask applicants to furnish these and save the DoJ time. When applying for residency in Australia, I had to get police clearance records from every country I had lived in for more than 12 months. Why don't the DoJ do the same of prospective citizens? Though unasked, we supplied these with my husbands Irish citizenship application (including Irish police checks) and this hasn't made any difference. I'm sure applicants would MUCH prefer the weeks/months required to get such police clearance certificates before applying for citizenship rather than years added to processing time.

Similarly for tax records. The applicant can print these out at PAYE online or get them from the tax office, but the records should be for the 5 years of residency and not for the next 2 years of waiting around.

My main point is this, if the DoJ needs to raise the bar for citizenship, then DO IT. If the DoJ need further information to satisfy them of the persons good character, then ASK FOR IT! If the DoJ need more tax records, then ask the applicant to supply this. The DoJ need to stop relying on the stalward catchphrase of "it's a serious honour to confer and the checks and balances must be maintained" and figure out what information they need to look favourably upon a citizenship application and request for these documents to be furnished.

In our case, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, the main things that will be considered in his application are as follows:

1. Be at least 18 years (evidenced by passport)
2. Intend in good faith to remain in country (hard to evidence but presumably evidenced by 3 years residence in passport)
3. Evidence that you are living togther (evidenced by Affidavit by Irish spouse and details of 2 other Irish citizens)
4. Marriage to Irish citizen for 3 years (evidenced by Marriage cert)
5. Residency in Ireland for 3 years post marriage (evidenced by passport stamps and INIS records)
6. Good character (evidenced by recent police clearance certificates from each country he resided in)

It's a short list of requirements and very easily proven. It shouldn't take half a day to consider all detaisl supplied, so Why does this take 24+ months to evaluate? Do they require more information? If so, then ask for it at the outset. We're 9 mths waiting so far and have no idea how long it will take.

How do you make people proud citizens of a country when you put them through the wringer emotionally when applying for it. Again, make applicants wait longer if this would help with the evaluation, but don't "sit on" an application for 2-4 years just to prove how much the applicant deserves it.

[9jeirean]

@Walrusgrumble: Your argument touches everything but the fundamental question. Let's put it this way: if other countries have more verifications, longer residency requirements, language test, knowledge of the host county etc, why then is it taking Ireland twice in some instances as these other countries?

[agniukas]

Let's put it this way: if other countries have more verifications, longer residency requirements, language test, knowledge of the host county etc, why then is it taking Ireland twice in some instances as these other countries?

... there are probably not so many applicants there if the requirements are tough... and as well, they probably don't have as many immigrants as here, therefore, not so many applications to process...
one of the former soviet countries that i know off does not even give a chance for people on work permits to apply for naturalisation or residency, as their work permit system is structured in such a way, that work permit is given for maximum 2 years, then the worker has to leave the state for at least a year and apply for a new 2 year work permit then. due to the fact that the worker has a year gap, he is not allowed to apply for any residency and the time accumulated does not count for citizenship as well. therefore, no chance what so ever...
i guess the planning process in ireland is slow, the resources were not provided when needed and it hasn't been forcasted the need of any additional personnel. that's how the backlog of many applications accumulated. if there was no backlog of naturalisation applications, the decision would probably be issued after 6-12 months. however, we are currently playing a catch up. it doesn't take 3-4 years to process an application, it takes 2-3 years waiting until the application is reached for processing.
as everyone knows there is an embargo situation on hiring additional personnel. so each department has to do with what they have. and of course, priorities have to be set. in my view currently the priorities are EU treaty rights (as they are bound to 6 months processing by EU law) and asylum cases, as they drag many years, cost a lot and require many man-hours to process. all other sections have to keep on with what staff they have available, therefore, not much progress in catching up, if the number of new applications in a year is higher than the number they can accually process within the year.

[9jeirean]

Let's put it this way: if other countries have more verifications, longer residency requirements, language test, knowledge of the host county etc, why then is it taking Ireland twice in some instances as these other countries?

... there are probably not so many applicants there if the requirements are tough... and as well, they probably don't have as many immigrants as here, therefore, not so many applications to process...
one of the former soviet countries that i know off does not even give a chance for people on work permits to apply for naturalisation or residency, as their work permit system is structured in such a way, that work permit is given for maximum 2 years, then the worker has to leave the state for at least a year and apply for a new 2 year work permit then. due to the fact that the worker has a year gap, he is not allowed to apply for any residency and the time accumulated does not count for citizenship as well. therefore, no chance what so ever...
i guess the planning process in ireland is slow, the resources were not provided when needed and it hasn't been forcasted the need of any additional personnel. that's how the backlog of many applications accumulated. if there was no backlog of naturalisation applications, the decision would probably be issued after 6-12 months. however, we are currently playing a catch up. it doesn't take 3-4 years to process an application, it takes 2-3 years waiting until the application is reached for processing.
as everyone knows there is an embargo situation on hiring additional personnel. so each department has to do with what they have. and of course, priorities have to be set. in my view currently the priorities are EU treaty rights (as they are bound to 6 months processing by EU law) and asylum cases, as they drag many years, cost a lot and require many man-hours to process. all other sections have to keep on with what staff they have available, therefore, not much progress in catching up, if the number of new applications in a year is higher than the number they can accually process within the year.

I have to say with respect, I am struggling to make sense of this post. Probably a tongue in cheek post but the humour is lost on me am afraid.

[IQU]

they shold make the quick process in citizenship process.why another people dont think if non eu /eu residence in ireland for long time he/she desirve much better.if foriegn contribute to irish ecomany they deserve more respect.WHY THEIR APPLICATION PROCESS IS SLOW.WHEN IRISH PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM MEANS DELAYS GETTING THEIR PASSPORT TO TRAVEL HALF OF THE COUNTRY MAKE RALLY DRAMAS HALF OF THE COUNTRY POLICTIONS TDS WHATEVERS SUPPORTING THEM.WHY THESE TDS NOT SUPPORTING THE ANOTHER NATION PEOPLE.................show some respect.

[walrusgumble]

Walrusgrumble: I think you're completely off the mark there. When comparing the waiting times to other countries for processing, you should compare the processing times, and not the residency requirement. If Ireland wants to raise the residency requirement from 3-5 yrs (marriage to Irish citizen vs work permits) to 5-7 yrs or whatever, they are free to do so. If they think they need people to prove for longer that they are a good prospect as a future citizen, then if needed, make them wait longer to apply. It is ridiculous to say that you need 5 years residency to get citizenship, but then we need to wait a further 2-4 years to "ensure you are really of good character" and won't ever require State assistance.

Also, if the DoJ require more information for the application, then ask applicants to furnish these and save the DoJ time. When applying for residency in Australia, I had to get police clearance records from every country I had lived in for more than 12 months. Why don't the DoJ do the same of prospective citizens? Though unasked, we supplied these with my husbands Irish citizenship application (including Irish police checks) and this hasn't made any difference. I'm sure applicants would MUCH prefer the weeks/months required to get such police clearance certificates before applying for citizenship rather than years added to processing time.

Similarly for tax records. The applicant can print these out at PAYE online or get them from the tax office, but the records should be for the 5 years of residency and not for the next 2 years of waiting around.

My main point is this, if the DoJ needs to raise the bar for citizenship, then DO IT. If the DoJ need further information to satisfy them of the persons good character, then ASK FOR IT! If the DoJ need more tax records, then ask the applicant to supply this. The DoJ need to stop relying on the stalward catchphrase of "it's a serious honour to confer and the checks and balances must be maintained" and figure out what information they need to look favourably upon a citizenship application and request for these documents to be furnished.

In our case, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, the main things that will be considered in his application are as follows:

1. Be at least 18 years (evidenced by passport)
2. Intend in good faith to remain in country (hard to evidence but presumably evidenced by 3 years residence in passport)
3. Evidence that you are living togther (evidenced by Affidavit by Irish spouse and details of 2 other Irish citizens)
4. Marriage to Irish citizen for 3 years (evidenced by Marriage cert)
5. Residency in Ireland for 3 years post marriage (evidenced by passport stamps and INIS records)
6. Good character (evidenced by recent police clearance certificates from each country he resided in)

It's a short list of requirements and very easily proven. It shouldn't take half a day to consider all detaisl supplied, so Why does this take 24+ months to evaluate? Do they require more information? If so, then ask for it at the outset. We're 9 mths waiting so far and have no idea how long it will take.

How do you make people proud citizens of a country when you put them through the wringer emotionally when applying for it. Again, make applicants wait longer if this would help with the evaluation, but don't "sit on" an application for 2-4 years just to prove how much the applicant deserves it.

You are the one that it completely off the mark

1. I was not comparing "waiting times to other countries for processing". I was comparing the "RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS" of a number of countries and this country ie 5 years compared to say greece which I think requires 10 years. VERY VERY BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! Ireland is very lenient and in a time that it is no longer neccessary. Where did you get that mistaken belief?

I clearly stated, that despite the relevantly short residency requirements (here 5 years) it was still no excuse for the delay in the processing times, which, if they got their way would lead up to 8 years before getting the passport. I did not think i needed to spell all of that out. I genuinely thought people would know the difference between "processing time" and "residency requirements"

Can you honestly say that the requirements (taking delay aside) for Irish citizenship is really that onerous (that is not to justify any excuses for dealy, there can't really be any jusitification)

The remaining part, I would agree, but hey this is Ireland, renouned for doing things arse ways. THe reason however for requiring additional information around 1 year after the application is to make sure that the applicant is still living in Ireland and is working. As for relying on the applicant to serve papers on the state, without the state not checking it out for themselves is totally reckless. You are well aware that a small minority would have no qualms in forging documents etc, one Supreme COurt cases comes to point. I would say however, that if you got proper legal adivce BEFORE rushing to make an application, you would have all of this obtained and sent straight away.

As for tax records, jesus, not everyone is honest!!!! It would be reckless to think no country does not do their own independent research


But the ultimate matter which you completely miss out on. The Minister For Justice and the government in General have to consider long term matters (surprisingly only one of few times they claim to do so he he ) such as future entitlement to pensions, whether resources to health service and social (yes yes for most part EU nationals are entitled to same, but its not guaranteed) also likelihood of that person (if not Irish) from leaving Ireland in the future. You are well aware of the differences between citizenship and merely being allowed to stay and work (and possibly earn MORE money and better quality of life - depending on country of origin, here, than in their own country - so drop that crap about working hard and paying taxes. Yes, most immigrants do work hard and are brilliant. But in all countries taxes are suppose to be paid as you will use certain services. Of course you are going to work if you want to survive

As for the last bit, I am in agreement with you. But, its not personal, its a case of the department dealing with over 10 000 applications each year! What you want them to priortise your application ahead of some one waiting longer than you? You claim about derving citizenship etc. Consider you will enjoy most of the same rights as an Irish and EU on basis of Stamp 4 AND considering that you would not be expected to travel very much and or live abroad (for a while - oh we see the real motive for taking the citizenship then) wouldn't you consider yourself Irish anyway. Nationality is more than a piece of plastic you know. If you feel it then fine.

Please kindly outline the difficulties you are in because you don't have your citizenship at this time, in light of your rights under Stamp 4

[walrusgumble]

@Walrusgrumble: Your argument touches everything but the fundamental question. Let's put it this way: if other countries have more verifications, longer residency requirements, language test, knowledge of the host county etc, why then is it taking Ireland twice in some instances as these other countries?

Rubbish civil/public service????

Do I win a prize?
No really, one person has hit the nail on the head.

[walrusgumble]

Let's put it this way: if other countries have more verifications, longer residency requirements, language test, knowledge of the host county etc, why then is it taking Ireland twice in some instances as these other countries?

... there are probably not so many applicants there if the requirements are tough... and as well, they probably don't have as many immigrants as here, therefore, not so many applications to process...
one of the former soviet countries that i know off does not even give a chance for people on work permits to apply for naturalisation or residency, as their work permit system is structured in such a way, that work permit is given for maximum 2 years, then the worker has to leave the state for at least a year and apply for a new 2 year work permit then. due to the fact that the worker has a year gap, he is not allowed to apply for any residency and the time accumulated does not count for citizenship as well. therefore, no chance what so ever...
i guess the planning process in ireland is slow, the resources were not provided when needed and it hasn't been forcasted the need of any additional personnel. that's how the backlog of many applications accumulated. if there was no backlog of naturalisation applications, the decision would probably be issued after 6-12 months. however, we are currently playing a catch up. it doesn't take 3-4 years to process an application, it takes 2-3 years waiting until the application is reached for processing.
as everyone knows there is an embargo situation on hiring additional personnel. so each department has to do with what they have. and of course, priorities have to be set. in my view currently the priorities are EU treaty rights (as they are bound to 6 months processing by EU law) and asylum cases, as they drag many years, cost a lot and require many man-hours to process. all other sections have to keep on with what staff they have available, therefore, not much progress in catching up, if the number of new applications in a year is higher than the number they can accually process within the year.

I have to say with respect, I am struggling to make sense of this post. Probably a tongue in cheek post but the humour is lost on me am afraid.

Ah no. actually that post spouts a lot of sense. You might like it, but it is an accurate account of the problems in the Irish Civil Servants. Instead of dismissing it out right, why don't you pull out your own facts etc to support your own case or rebut what has just being said. When I can, I will track down recent High Court cases regarding delay of citizenship applications which highlight statements made by the department on this issue.

Considering that you don't have a clue about the comings and goings of the department of Justice and in particular the INIS (no disrepect intended) you are not really in a postion to comment as to the accuracy. Criticise, fair enough.

[walrusgumble]

whats the residency requirements and delay periods in yer countries?

[aya101]

for me so what if someone applied for socail welfare but on the bases that they are working hard,some non eus come to ireland and apply and dont have a job.
for those who dont get paid as someone said a penny from the government should be awarded citizenship bec they have wokred hard during the recession and before that for the country and like evrybody have paid the huge amount of tax and need to raise a family.
think of the sef employed non eu there isnt many and its consider very hard as its very diffcult to obtain profits espcailly now in the recession.They need to pay so many expenses but above all the taxes and they dont get any socail welfare but child benefit for their familes.

so non eus are good in this senses they work like any resdient in the country and also pay the expenses of living here but its different for them as non eus

[acme4242]

here is one to compare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law

Acquisition of Italian citizenship

Through marriage:
Foreign women who married an Italian citizen before April 27, 1983, were automatically granted Italian citizenship, while foreign men who married Italian women weren't granted this privilege, and neither their children were granted Italian citizenship if born before January 1, 1948.
After six months legal residence in Italy, the spouse of an Italian citizen can acquire Italian citizenship through naturalization; that was before August 8, 2009. Now, it has been extended to two years or after three years of marriage (if overseas), those periods are reduced respectively to one year and one and a half year if the couple has a child (natural or adopted) provided a lack of criminal record and lack of national security concerns.
Through naturalization:
After 10 years of legal residence, absence of criminal record, and sufficient financial resources, a foreigner may naturalize (three years for former Italian citizens up to the second degree and for aliens born on Italian territory, four years for nationals of EU member states, five years for refugees or stateless persons and seven years for the adoptee of an Italian national.)

Also, while we know how sub-par the Irish Civil service are
I think the long delays in processing citizenship is a deliberate
black op to deny rights. They are not that inefficient in the tax office.
or when it comes to processing parking or speeding tickets.

[9jeirean]

deleted double posts

[9jeirean]

Ah no. actually that post spouts a lot of sense. You might like it, but it is an accurate account of the problems in the Irish Civil Servants. Instead of dismissing it out right, why don't you pull out your own facts etc to support your own case or rebut what has just being said. When I can, I will track down recent High Court cases regarding delay of citizenship applications which highlight statements made by the department on this issue.

Considering that you don't have a clue about the comings and goings of the department of Justice and in particular the INIS (no disrepect intended) you are not really in a postion to comment as to the accuracy. Criticise, fair enough.

You sure know how to disappoint don't you? Your deliberate attempt to introduce a fallacious direction to an otherwise straight forward argument had been found out and all you could do is to start trading Ad hominem abusive? How pathetic SMH.

Not sure what stats you are looking for, that's assuming you read the original post on this thread rather than making up your own red herring about "Russian stateletts" and other complete waffles that has no relevance with the issue under discuss.

Ireland granted just six citizenships per 1,000 foreign residents -- compared with more than 50 per 1000 in Sweden and Portugal, and an average of 23 across the EU. Only the Czech Republic was less generous, bestowing citizenship on just three people per 1,000 foreign residents, while Luxembourg was on a par with Ireland.

The above quoted forms the fundamental issue under discussion here. If you want to rant about what goes on in "Russia stateletts", open another thread.

That said, I believe there is a strong case to be made for applicants for naturalization to proof reasonable level of language, social and economic integration into the host country. I strongly belief that this needs to be balanced by improved political and administrative efficiency and by God transparency in the way the citizenship process runs in Ireland. This does not IMHO limit the authority of the minister in this regards.

The process of integration is a two way road. I do not believe it is something to be defensive about. It is obvious that there is a need for improvement here.

[walrusgumble]

for me so what if someone applied for socail welfare but on the bases that they are working hard,some non eus come to ireland and apply and dont have a job.
for those who dont get paid as someone said a penny from the government should be awarded citizenship bec they have wokred hard during the recession and before that for the country and like evrybody have paid the huge amount of tax and need to raise a family.
think of the sef employed non eu there isnt many and its consider very hard as its very diffcult to obtain profits espcailly now in the recession.They need to pay so many expenses but above all the taxes and they dont get any socail welfare but child benefit for their familes.

so non eus are good in this senses they work like any resdient in the country and also pay the expenses of living here but its different for them as non eus

No one is saying they can't apply for social welfare for eg child benefit and employment related payments. THey have earned the right to do this via taxes and PRSI.

But if they are applying for other funds, then that is illegal as most are means tested. You say so what? Ha, I like to see how any country deals with this. Anyway, their immgiration status is not being effected its simply they may be barred from applying for citizenship. Even then they are required to hold off till they can show complete economic independence, in fairness, the minister has discretion which can't be fettered so even if there is a small period of 6 months out of a period of eg 5-7 years out of work, yes surely the applicant should not be barred.

No one disputes that non eu nationals work hard and give a contribution. But the EU laws don't provide for non eu's unless married or a family member of an EU. Even the EU says its not open season for Non EU's. THese people have a choice to stay or leave but decide to stay, on the basis that they would enjoy a better way of life (hardly, to be far if badly paid) and work. THeir status clearly states that they are here on the basis that they must work and not rely on welfare. If they loose their jobs, unless there are circumstances, the must leave. Same in AMerica or any other country. So how can you demand citizenship if you no longer meet the conditions of your current permission to stay?

Of course, there must be considerations for those long term residents who have worked and paid taxes (big deal by the way, its the law - considering alot of jobs were minuim wage, that point is moot regarding income tax! though of course their is vat etc). The non eu who has no connection with other EU states was allowed in on a limited basis to meet the job shortages in the EU. It was not intended to be permanent. So who really gets more out of this deal, the non EU or the governments. no one put a gun to the head of the non eu to come here and stay. THey were offered, likely, better jobs and living in the union and an opportunity to further cement their position here (eg getting married)

I hope all do well and get as much out of their time here, but one needs to stop living in cuckoo land and face the realities.

[walrusgumble]

here is one to compare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law

Acquisition of Italian citizenship

Through marriage:
Foreign women who married an Italian citizen before April 27, 1983, were automatically granted Italian citizenship, while foreign men who married Italian women weren't granted this privilege, and neither their children were granted Italian citizenship if born before January 1, 1948.
After six months legal residence in Italy, the spouse of an Italian citizen can acquire Italian citizenship through naturalization; that was before August 8, 2009. Now, it has been extended to two years or after three years of marriage (if overseas), those periods are reduced respectively to one year and one and a half year if the couple has a child (natural or adopted) provided a lack of criminal record and lack of national security concerns.
Through naturalization:
After 10 years of legal residence, absence of criminal record, and sufficient financial resources, a foreigner may naturalize (three years for former Italian citizens up to the second degree and for aliens born on Italian territory, four years for nationals of EU member states, five years for refugees or stateless persons and seven years for the adoptee of an Italian national.)

Also, while we know how sub-par the Irish Civil service are
I think the long delays in processing citizenship is a deliberate
black op to deny rights. They are not that inefficient in the tax office.
or when it comes to processing parking or speeding tickets.

chip on shoulder me thinks. THe delays are not deliberate! (though it makes one fear for their competence)Maybe if you spent time in the deparment and saw how many applications are dealt with you would see.

Citizenship of any country should not mean simply staying and working for a certian period of time by the way. Checks and balances must be meet and a government needs to see can they actually support additional citizens. As for the race card, this country as being superiorly better in treating people of a particular race or country of origin with respect and equalness than a lot of other countries, (yes there are exceptions) so live the race card at home. If you insist on it, maybe you are not suitable for citizenship

It boils down to a question i keep repeating though, and no one seems to answer, ye are all very good at pointing out problems, fair enough, but what happens in yer countries? does bribbery really work?

By the way the Italian legistlation, the words "may" does not cannotes will or any word of entitlement

[acme4242]

Please remember the amount of work involved in processing residence and citizenship is of the Dept making.

Example before McDowell, the spouse or widow of Irish Citizens did not need to register as aliens with the Dept at all.
Now they must register as aliens every year, have fingerprint and photographs taken and be processed in the arrest area of Garda station.

The Dept is making the work load, and then blaming their incompetence to deal with it, on their work load.

oath of allegiance, is another pointless bureaucracy procedure.
it means nothing in reality, it was just an ego trip for O'Donoghue to add it.

[IrishTom]

Citizenship is the biggest gift a nation can bestow to a foreigner. It is not a right. Foreigners are not fundamentally entitled to citizenship, it is given at the states discretion.

[IrishTom]

for me so what if someone applied for socail welfare but on the bases that they are working hard,some non eus come to ireland and apply and dont have a job.

That tax money goes on little things like running the country. Free education, maintaining roads, providing drinking water, emergency services, smalls things like that.

A high proportion of immigrants take more from the public purse than they contribute. If, during the vetting process, it has come to the departments attention that the applicant was in receipt of public funds, then they are most rightly refused in their application.

We have enough dole bludgers, thank you very much.

[Monifé]

Citizenship is the biggest gift a nation can bestow to a foreigner. It is not a right. Foreigners are not fundamentally entitled to citizenship, it is given at the states discretion.

Was wondering when you would make an appearance

I agree citizenship is a big gift, and most definitely there should be requirements, but I do think it is unfair if someone has been working here for over 5-7 years, has a mortgage, a family, a life here, and they say lose their job and have to receive the dole for like 6 months or whatever, it is likely that their application will be refused.. I think that is unfair.

Also if someone was to get like 2 penalty points for speeding or something, and their application is refused on that basis, I think is also unfair!