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Italy and France, but they all seem to have similar requirement.John wrote: Schengen visas are issued by many countries. Which country are you applying to?
Also
Cour de cassation
Audience publique du jeudi 4 juin 2009
N° de pourvoi: 08-10962
http://legifrance.com/affichJuriJudi.do ... &fastPos=1
Attendu que le procureur général près la cour d'appel de Caen fait grief à l'arrêt attaqué (Caen, 22 novembre 2007) de confirmer ce jugement, alors, selon le moyen, que, conformément à la règle communément admise en droit international, reprise dans l'instruction générale relative à l'état civil, les copies ou extraits d'actes d'état civil établis à l'étranger doivent, sauf convention internationale, être légalisés à l'étranger par un consul de France pour recevoir effet en France ; qu'en l'absence de convention entre la France et la Chine sur ce point, la cour d'appel ne pouvait considérer probant l'acte de naissance chinois de Xiaohong X... non muni de la formalité de la légalisation ; qu'en considérant que la mention du Consulat de Chine en France, selon laquelle l'acte du 17 juillet 2002 a été dressé dans les formes prévues par la loi chinoise, répondait en substance à cette exigence et constituait donc une authentification de la signature et de la qualité de l'auteur de l'acte à établir celui-ci, la cour a dénaturé l'élément de preuve que constitue l'acte notarié et la mention qui y est apposée, et violé la règle susvisée ;
Mais attendu, d'abord, que, si les copies ou extraits d'actes d'état civil établis à l'étranger doivent, selon la coutume internationale et sauf convention contraire, être légalisés, la cour d'appel a exactement retenu que, dans son acception actuelle, la légalisation pouvait être effectuée en France, par le consul du pays où l'acte a été établi ; ensuite, que l'arrêt constate, d'une part, que l'acte notarié de 2002 produit par Mme X... pour justifier de son état civil, et notamment de ses date et lieu de naissance et de sa filiation, avait été certifié le 15 juillet 2004 par le consulat de Chine en France, comme établi dans les formes prévues par la loi chinoise, d'autre part, qu'aucun élément du dossier ne permettait de douter de la véracité de la signature de l'acte ou de la qualité du signataire ; que la cour d'appel a pu en déduire que l'acte de naissance produit par Mme X... pouvait recevoir effet en France ; d'où il suit que le moyen n'est pas fondé ;
also :
Instruction générale relative à l’état civil du 11 mai 1999
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... dateTexte=
592 and after
C. - Copies ou extraits d'actes de l'état civil émanant d'autorités
étrangères et destinés à être utilisés en France
Guidance for better transposition and application of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States
July 7, 2009
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 313:FR:NOT
2.1.1. Spouses and partners
Marriages validly contracted anywhere in the world must be in principle recognized for the purpose of the application of the Directive
Do you mean Italy orFrance? The point is of course that a Schengen visa is valid in all Schengen area countries. And also the border between Italy and France is all but non-existent. On the motorway just north of Nice the only way you can see that you have moved from one country to the other is because of the language of the road signs!Italy and France, but they all seem to have similar requirement.
French consulate in LOndon is a french administration.shaobohou wrote:thanks for the reply, but I am not sure that the Chinese consulate in France is the one that should provide the legalisation. Certainly the information provided on the French embassy claims that it should be the Chinese consulate in UK that provide the legalisation required for Schengen visa.
.shaobohou wrote:Hi,
I hope someone can help me out with this.
I am naturalised British Citizen and my wife is on a UK spouse visa with a Chinese passport. We got married in China and our marriage certificate has been translated and notarised in China.
In order for her to apply for Schengen visa as a UK/EU spouse, our marriage certificate need to be stamped by the Chinese Embassy in UK and its translation certified as a true copy.
http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Family-mem ... opean.html
However, the Chinese embassy in UK does not legalise documents executed in China, and says it need to be legalised by the UK embassy in China.
http://www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng/l ... 624438.htm
But the UK embassy in China only seems to legalise UK documents!
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/what- ... -documents
I am incredibly confused and I hope someone can help me out.
Would depositing the marriage certificate with the General Register Office (GRO) be of any help at all?
I've got the same problem in that we've got a Chinese marriage certificate. Although it is recognised under UK law but not for some of the EU countries. So I'm restricted in terms of which country i apply the Schengen visa to. We attempted to deposit it with the GRO but they failed us miserably - a long story but the issue was the Notary Public in Shanghai only issued us with a shorter version of the marriage certificate's translation, which the British consulate in SH said its not a full translation of the red book therefore can't proceed with the deposit.Graham Weifang wrote:.shaobohou wrote:Hi,
I hope someone can help me out with this.
I am naturalised British Citizen and my wife is on a UK spouse visa with a Chinese passport. We got married in China and our marriage certificate has been translated and notarised in China.
In order for her to apply for Schengen visa as a UK/EU spouse, our marriage certificate need to be stamped by the Chinese Embassy in UK and its translation certified as a true copy.
http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Family-mem ... opean.html
However, the Chinese embassy in UK does not legalise documents executed in China, and says it need to be legalised by the UK embassy in China.
http://www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng/l ... 624438.htm
But the UK embassy in China only seems to legalise UK documents!
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/what- ... -documents
I am incredibly confused and I hope someone can help me out.
Would depositing the marriage certificate with the General Register Office (GRO) be of any help at all?
A little late to the party, but this is the requirement
Your both red Chinese marriage books, your both white A4 notorised translated copies of your marriage, and both your passports, need to go to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs preferably by recorded EMS.
They will legalize your notorised translated (Chinese/English) documents.
By doing this, they declare that they identify the stamp and signature, not the contents.
The notary is the one's you declare the contents correct.
This will cost around 600 RNB.
This will take about 7 days.
All the EU embassy's in China require this, before they issue your Chinese wife with a spouse Schengen visa.
According to the UK governement, no. From https://www.gov.uk/government/news/marr ... seas-brits:shaobohou wrote:Would depositing the marriage certificate with the General Register Office (GRO) be of any help at all?
2.There is no legal requirement to deposit your foreign marriage or civil partnership certificate with the GRO, or to have your marriage/civil partnership recorded in the UK. The deposit of a foreign certificate does not make the marriage legal in the UK, nor does it ‘recognise’ the marriage as a valid one.
Unfortunately, both the French and Italian embassies (at least) are asking for marriage certificates that have been legalised in the UK, and the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs isn't. Personally my certificate has already been legalised in China (it had to be for my partner's UK visa application) but apparently that doesn't count for anything as far as the French and Italian embassies are concerned.Graham Weifang wrote:
Your both red Chinese marriage books, your both white A4 notorised translated copies of your marriage, and both your passports, need to go to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs preferably by recorded EMS.
They will legalize your notorised translated (Chinese/English) documents.
Dear Sir:
Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.
Your question relates to the formalities your wife must comply with in order to travel to France or Italy. Specifically, the issue you raise relates to the marriage certificate, and the requirement to have it legalized under French or Italian law.
You mention in your post that the French require not only for the marriage certificate to be legalized; the translation must also be certified as a true translation by the Chinese Consular authorities.
Given this, you wonder to what extent this requirement is in line with EU law.
Your question raises the issue as to whether the legalization of the translation of the document in question is required under EU law. This is a question that is left to Member States to regulate, although in so doing Member States must abide by EU law (eg.Treaty law, and secondary legislation, eg. Directive 2004/38 and caselaw).
The Court of Justice of the European Union has previously ruled in Commission v Italy Case C-424/98 [2000] ECR I-4001 that the national authorities could not require citizens and their family members to have documents certified by the consular authorities of their Member State of origin and held that by limiting the means of proof which may be relied upon, and in particular by providing that certain documents must be issued or certified by the authority of a Member State, the Italian Republic has exceeded the limits imposed upon it by Community law. (at para 37)
In Dafeki, Case C-336/94 [1997] ECR I-6761 at para 19, the Court ruled that the administrative and judicial authorities of a Member State must accept certificates and analogous documents relative to personal status issued by the competent authorities of the other Member States, unless their accuracy is seriously undermined by concrete evidence relating to the individual case in question.
In addition, the Commission s guidance on implementation of the Directive (COM(2009) 313) See link above, states that Member States may require that documents be translated, notarised or legalized where the national authority concerned cannot understand the language in which the particular document is written, or have a suspicion about the authenticity of the issuing authority.
The absence of EU rules on the mutual recognition of documents relating to personal status (such as birth certificates and marriage certificates) is exacerbating these problems and is leading to divergent administrative practices in residence formalities. At present the formalities for recognising official documents are partly governed by the Convention Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation of Foreign Public Documents (The Hague, 5 October 1961), which institutes the apostille certificate (see comments above concerning the same).
Given the many instances where Member States have been found to misapply the terms of European Union law in this field, the European Commission has been compelled to issue guidelines on the subject. Please follow the link:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:EN:PDF
Entry into France without a visa:
Given the difficulties your wife has had with the processing of a Visa to visit France, you are now inclined to attempt to go to France without the required visa and to rely on Article 5 paragraph 4 Directive 2004/38, which requires French Border officials to land your wife in France and to let her a reasonable delay to prove that she is covered under EU law (Directive 2004/38), e.g. her marriage certificate, your passport and her passport.
Article 5 paragraph 4 is also reflected under the Border code and the Visa code, compelling EU border officials to exercise discretion, where proof by the passenger establishes that he is the family member of an EU citizen and that they are both travelling together.
Whilst Article 5 paragraph 4 does limit the powers of EU immigration officials and border guards, please beware that your wife may be subject to a rigorous scrutiny.
You may find assistance through the following organizations located in various parts of France:
http://www.ccbe.eu/index.php?id=140&L=0
Please find the link to the website for the French Law Society.
http://www.avocatparis.org/
CIMADE provides direct legal advice and assistance on a case by case basis:
http://www.cimade.org/poles/defense-des-droits/
I trust the above answers the questions you had and thank you again for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.
Kind regards.
Your Europe Advice.
Your original query was:
RE: Applying for a Schengen visa with a Chinese wedding certificate
Hello there,
I am a UK citizen and my wife is Chinese. We were married in China this year and my wife is now living with me in the UK on a spouse visa. We wish to visit countries in the Schengen area as tourists. So, we would like to apply for a free visa for my wife, as is our right.
However, we have a dilemma. Here's how it goes:
1. Both the French Embassy and Italian Consulate in London require us to submit a marriage certificate and/or translation that has been legalised in the UK.
[References: For France: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/As-the-Spo ... pean-Union point 6.
For Italy: this isn’t clear from the website, but it’s what they told us at the Consulate in person.]
2. The Chinese Embassy in the UK does not normally legalise documents issued in China. It only provides this service for documents issued in the UK. The Chinese Embassy say that if the document is not from the UK it has to be first notarised by the issuing country (in our case China) and then legalised by the UK Government.
[Ref: http://www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng/l ... 021900.htm]
3. The UK government only legalises documents issued in the UK (and by UK authorities). So, they won’t look at our Chinese marriage certificate.
[Ref: https://www.gov.uk/get-document-legalised]
4. The Chinese authorities in Beijing might legalise our marriage certificate, but the French and Italian embassies won't accept this, as they both want our documents legalised in the UK only (see point 1.).
It seems like a perfect Catch-22 with no way out. Here are two questions I can think of:
a. Are the French and Italian embassies right in asking us to do something that is, from our standpoint, seemingly impossible?
b. If we turn up on the border without a visa and demand our right to enter based on our marriage, can they simply turn us away because they don’t recognise our Chinese marriage certificate? Our marriage certificate and translation have both been notarised by the Chinese authorities already.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time and best wishes.