Refused 4 Entry clearance 4 Bank stationary with Bank Letter

[Manoj4HSMP]

Dear Friends

We had applied for HSMP tier1 on 16th July with my spouse as primary and me as dependent. We received the refusal letter on 5th Aug, as the ECO awarded me 20 points for my previous earnings instead of the 35 points I had claimed.

I had claimed my previous earnings points for my income (salary) from July 2009 to July 2010. However, since I had a job change in this period, I had submitted my documents for both the employers. Moreover, since the salary credit was shown in three different banks during this period; I had also added a covering letter to explain the ECO about my salary credits.

1) From July 09 to Oct 09, I had submitted electronic statements taken from internet banking from my Axis bank account, which were stamped and signed on each page and had a covering letter from my Bank's branch for it's authenticity

2)For Nov 09 I received my salary in cheque from my 2nd employer as it was my 1st month and my salary account was not operational by then. I had submitted the cheque in my ICICI account, thus I submitted the bank statement for this one month , which was provided by my local bank on ICICI letterhead.

3) From Dec 09 to July '10 I had submitted bank statements from IDBI bank which was stamped and signed on all pages; however since the statements were on the dot matrix paper, it did not have the bank name and address or was not on official stationary, thus the Bank gave me a covering letter to substantiate the same which was on the official letterhead and had the address and contact details of the local branch for further verification.



The ECO's comments were as below;

" I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider , that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.

Therefore you have been awarded only 20 points for your earnings of GBP 19175.



The ECO has not given me points for my salary credit in my IDBI account, inspite of submission of bank statement that was stamped and signed and had a covering letter from the Bank to authenticate the same.

IDBI bank's covering letter mentioned the below:

This is to certify that the bank statement for account no XYZ held by Mrs "A" and Mr "B" carries bank stamp and sign as they are an electronic statement and not on an official bank stationary.

Thus, this certificate is issued in conjunction with the certified electronic statement to be true and fair as per the bank records.


Friends, now you have the scenario and the issue...request you all to help me understand and draft an AR letter to be sent to the ECO that can perhaps help overturn the refusal....

[vinny]

Perhaps also refer them to the House of Commons observations.

8 Administrative review

Pankina may also be applicable?

[Manoj4HSMP]

Vinny, I am unable to understand what are you trying to say, could u plz be more specific abt our case and if you can, also revert with a suggestion as to what cn be mentioned on the AR letter...

[vinny]

Perhaps you may also comment along these lines:

3) From Dec 09 to July '10 I had submitted bank statements from IDBI bank which was stamped and signed on all pages; however since the statements were on the dot matrix paper, it did not have the bank name and address or was not on official stationary, thus the Bank gave me a covering letter to substantiate the same which was on the official letterhead and had the address and contact details of the local branch for further verification.

Your stamped and signed bank statements, on their own, should have been acceptable, as they should have complied with the guidance:

Bank statements you send must be on official bank stationery, and must show each of the payments that you are claiming. If you wish to send electronic bank statements from an online account you should also send a supporting letter from the bank on company headed paper confirming that the documents are authentic. Alternatively, electronic bank statements with the official stamp of the bank that issued the statements will be accepted. The stamp must appear on every page of the statement.

Moreover, you did also include the IDBI bank's covering letter from the bank, on company headed paper, confirming that the documents are authentic. Your documents appears to have satisfied the guidance twice over.

The ECO's comments were as below;

" I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider , that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.

Maintenance (funds) specifies electronic bank statements more fully. If electronic bank statements must also be on official bank stationary, then the subsequent specifications in the guidance, relating to the electronic bank statements, are redundant, as the logical disjunction "or" is used:

Accounts held with other banks

If you have a bank account that does not operate exclusively online but you receive your bank statements electronically and you wish to use these statements as evidence of funds for maintenance, you should provide:

* electronic bank statements printed at the bank on their official stationary; or
* electronic statements printed by the applicant and bearing the official stamp of the bank in question. This stamp should appear on every page of the statements; or
* a supporting letter from the bank, on the banks company headed paper, confirming the authenticity of the statements.

Maintenance (funds) clearly indicates that electronic statements may be printed by the applicant, who obviously would not normally have access to the offical bank stationary, unless s/he was a bank employee. The ECO seems to have added a further unjustifiable restriction to an already rigidly defined types of paperwork.

If the ECO also doubted the genuineness of your documents, then 245AA(b) may also be applicable.

Good luck!

See also Mantainance Funds - Application rejected.

[Manoj4HSMP]

Dear Vinny

Thanks a tonne for your inputs.

We have drafted an AR letter to be posted to the embassy, request you to go through the same and revert with any additions/deletions in the same if required before we post it...


To,

Whomsoever it may concern.

Sub : Request for administrative review of my application (app no : MNAC/000000/000000/1 and MNAC/0000/000000/2)

Dear Sir/Madam

This is to request an Administrative review of our application, as it has been refused an entry clearance; on grounds of my points claimed for Previous earnings.

I had Claimed 35 points for my Previous earnings between July’09 to July’10 (The salary for this period was credited in 3 banks as I had changed my employer in Nov’09).
Though I was awarded points for my earnings between July’09 to Nov’09; The ECO did not award me the points claimed from Dec’09 to July’10. The ECO’s comments were as below:
“I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ Company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider, that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.â€

[vinny]

Perhaps it may also be worth mentioning that Maintenance (funds) specifies electronic bank statements more fully, etc.?

[Manoj4HSMP]

Dear Vinny,

Kindly find as below the final draft with the MF point specified, request you to let me know if i have leftout any other point. Or is the meaning clear to the reader ?

P.S : We cant Thank You enough for your guidance.




To,
whomsoever...


Sub : Request for administrative review of my application (app no : MNAC/000000/000000/1 and MNAC/00000/000000/2)

Dear Sir/Madam

This is to request an Administrative review of our application, as it has been refused an entry clearance; on grounds of my points claimed for Previous earnings.

I had Claimed 35 points for my Previous earnings between July’09 to July’10 (The salary for this period was credited in 3 banks as I had changed my employer in Nov’09).

Though I was awarded points for my earnings between July’09 to Nov’09; The ECO did not award me the points claimed from Dec’09 to July’10. The ECO’s comments were as below:

“I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ Company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider, that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.â€

[vinny]

Perhaps you could include some links to show what part of the guidance you are referring to?

[quote="Manoj4HSMP"]The Guidance in the Previous earnings section states that:

“Bank statements you send must be on official bank stationery, and must show each of the payments that you are claiming. If you wish to send electronic bank statements from an online account you should also send a supporting letter from the bank on company headed paper confirming that the documents are authentic. Alternatively, electronic bank statements with the official stamp of the bank that issued the statements will be accepted. The stamp must appear on every page of the statement.â€

[vinny]

Following the principles of good writing style, I've edited my section on Maintenance (funds) at little; in case you wanted to include parts of it.

The ECO's comments were as below;

" I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider , that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.

Apparently, the ECO considered that the statements that you have provided are not electronic because:

According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.

However, note that:

More comprehensive guidance is available on the UK Border Agency website, which is the definitive version, and in the event of any discrepancy overrules the information provided in this leaflet.

Maintenance (funds) specifies electronic bank statements more fully:

Accounts held with other banks

If you have a bank account that does not operate exclusively online but you receive your bank statements electronically and you wish to use these statements as evidence of funds for maintenance, you should provide:

* electronic bank statements printed at the bank on their official stationary; or
* electronic statements printed by the applicant and bearing the official stamp of the bank in question. This stamp should appear on every page of the statements; or
* a supporting letter from the bank, on the banks company headed paper, confirming the authenticity of the statements.

The logical disjunction "or" is used. If electronic bank statements must always be on official bank stationary, then the subsequent specifications are redundant. Maintenance (funds) clearly indicates that electronic statements may be printed by the applicant. An applicant would not normally have access to the official bank stationary, unless s/he was a bank employee. It follows that other stationary may be used. When insisting only on official bank stationary, the ECO seems to have added a further unjustifiable restriction to an already rigidly defined types of paperwork.

[Manoj4HSMP]

Hi Vinny,

We have drafted the AR letter and ready to send, However our Consultant has insisted on Attaching the docs in question which are IDBI Bank Statement and IDBI covering Letter along with payslips for the period for which i was not given points.

however As its mentioned in the form " you may not submit any new or further information/documents in support of your request for administrative review".


we have a doubt that our Admin Review should not be rejected simply because we r re-sending the same old docs which we have Submitted. PLEASE ADVICE.

[vinny]

I think, at worse, they may probably just ignore new documents.

However, perhaps you may add that:

In view of the House of Commons, Home Affairs Committee's report (150):

150. We agree that an administrative review on objective criteria will be more transparent and easier to administer. However, requiring a new application and a fresh fee for failing to furnish the UK Border Agency with rigidly defined types of paperwork is palpably unfair. This is particularly the case for applicants from countries in which the use of documents such as payslips is not common practice. That some applicants are unable to meet the documentation requirements through circumstances beyond their control is apparent from our conversations with UK Border Agency officials in New Delhi. We therefore recommend that applicants should be able to submit additional documentation, if it is requested, without having to make an entirely fresh application and pay another fee.

I am enclosing additional documents for your convenience.

As an aside, in my view, ECOs should also consider:

(b) If the Entry Clearance Officer or Secretary of State has reasonable cause to doubt the genuineness of any document submitted by an applicant which is, or which purports to be, a specified document under Part 6A or Appendices A to C, or E of these Rules and having taken reasonable steps to verify the document, is unable to verify that it is genuine, the document will be discounted for the purposes of this application.

245AA(b) seems to give ECOs the discretion to treat any submitted documents as "which purports to be, a specified document" and act accordingly. Ideally, a fair ECO should not simply discard any submitted documents out of hand. ECOs should also follow the recommendations in paragraph 150.

Too much wishful thinking?

[Manoj4HSMP]

i thing u got me wrong, i am not attaching any NEW doc just same once we had sent b4 for the first time.
However my doubt is what if they just see them and say "wrong way of Admin review form submition" and send it back without even going any further.just cos of docs i sent with form, as their websites mentions not to send anything with the Admin review form.

[vinny]

Sorry. I had read your post rather too quickly.

It is also possible that they had scanned and stored your application before, else, how would they know the details of your application?

Perhaps people can share his/her experience of the Administrative Review relating to this?

[mrnngmist]

Dear Brother,

Have you submitted the Administrative Review Request.

You have a very valid point and you will get the visa please carefully follow what I am saying.

The point you have mentioned in your AR draft is regarding the specified documents which are to be submitted for the maintenance fund part. This has nothing to do with the specified documents for prevoius Earnings
!!!!!!
You just quote page no.26 of the policy guidance note regarding the specifications for previous earnings in the case of bank statements. It says " Personal bank statements showing the ii) payments made to the applicant: Bank statements provided must be on official bank stationery, and must show each of the payments that the applicant is claiming. If the applicant wishes to submit electronic bank statements from an online account he/ she should also provide a supporting letter from the bank on company headed paper confirming that the documents are authentic. Alternatively an electronic bank statement bearing the official stamp of the bank issuing the statements will be accepted. This stamp must appear on every page of the statement. For the purposes of this guidance an online bank account is one that operates solely over the internet and sends their bank statements to their customers electronically".

YOUR CASE IS CLEAR. The PBS system means specific is specific. This is the requirement for Previous earnings. The ECO has got it mixed with the specifications for Maintenence fund requirements. Explain this point properly and show how the documents you had submitted were meeting the requirements.

if you have already send the AR request unortunately according to the old format you prepared then send a letter/fax explaining this additional point without causing much difference from your stand in the already submitted request. follow up after 2-3 days through mail/phone(better) and ensure they have attached this letter/fax to ur admin review request.

YOU WILL GET THE VISA - Save your hard earned money.

and if it doesnt work you can appeal after the review on 1. violation of human rights and 2. facial discrimination though the appeal can only be brought on these grounds you can link it to the emmigration decision and display that the decision was not in accordance with the rules and get your visa . takes approx 4-6 months. (only if you have the spirit to fight)

I got my similar Tier 1 refusal overturned (no logo in my bank statemet for maintenance funds ) after an appeal on limited grounds which was successful. But i had to toil a bit. But thats how it works.

ALL THE BEST

[mrnngmist]

There is a small correction in my message.

It is not the ECO who has got it wrong. You have mixed the maintenence fund specifications in to specifications for previous earnings in the draft you had prepared which may negatively affect your case during the admin review. what you have to clarify is the fact that the idbi statements you submitted were indeed electronic bank statements which the ECO is disputing.

OR

Insted of a review you can submit an appeal on limited grounds to the first tier immigtation and assylum tribunal (http://www.tribunals.gov.uk/immigrationasylum). This should reach them by post/fax with all detailed explanations and supporting evidence with in 28 days after you received your eco decision.

OR

you can consider the appeal option on limited grounds after the review also but then you will have to apply for extension of time in the appeal form and resons for the delay( had to go for an admin review first which was (incase) not in your favour and that it was unfair and unjust.

The tribunal will consider this issue as trivial since the bank statements are endorsed by the bank and there is no dispute in their credibility(originality). The immigration judjes have vast power and will apply their common sense in your favour for sure as they have done time and again. But the point is that you will have to demonstrate that the decision by the ECO breached your basic human rights and was arrived to intentionally harrass and humiliate you using such a silly reason when he had no other options to refuse you and your wife entry clearence (2 seperate appeal forms have to be lodged for both) and the motive was also to racially discriminate against you since you both were not white skinned persons, in which case he would have treated the application and applivant in an entirely different manner.

HOPE I GAVE YOU THE CRUX. YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP YOUR CASE IN A CONVINCING MANNER TO THE JUDJE IN THE APPEAL FORM (which can be heard in paper - no need for any uk barrister or representative.)

[vinny]

See also Bank statements.

[arukinfo]

hi there

dont lose your confident...your case is very transprant and dont lose your hardest money in new application you will be 100% win your Admin Review. Have you apply your admin review? where did you applied from?

Thanks

[geriatrix]

Based on response from the OP (through PM), I can confirm that the AR was unsuccessful.


regards

[dhruv]

Dear Friends

We had applied for HSMP tier1 on 16th July with my spouse as primary and me as dependent. We received the refusal letter on 5th Aug, as the ECO awarded me 20 points for my previous earnings instead of the 35 points I had claimed.

I had claimed my previous earnings points for my income (salary) from July 2009 to July 2010. However, since I had a job change in this period, I had submitted my documents for both the employers. Moreover, since the salary credit was shown in three different banks during this period; I had also added a covering letter to explain the ECO about my salary credits.

1) From July 09 to Oct 09, I had submitted electronic statements taken from internet banking from my Axis bank account, which were stamped and signed on each page and had a covering letter from my Bank's branch for it's authenticity

2)For Nov 09 I received my salary in cheque from my 2nd employer as it was my 1st month and my salary account was not operational by then. I had submitted the cheque in my ICICI account, thus I submitted the bank statement for this one month , which was provided by my local bank on ICICI letterhead.

3) From Dec 09 to July '10 I had submitted bank statements from IDBI bank which was stamped and signed on all pages; however since the statements were on the dot matrix paper, it did not have the bank name and address or was not on official stationary, thus the Bank gave me a covering letter to substantiate the same which was on the official letterhead and had the address and contact details of the local branch for further verification.



The ECO's comments were as below;

" I am satisfied that you have shown earnings amounting to Rs 253504 (GBP 19175) from July '09 to Oct'09. You have also claimed your points based on your earnings with XYZ company (2nd employer) which amounts to Rs 499451 from Nov 09 to July '10. Whilst I note that you have submitted bank statements from IDBI bank plus a covering letter, however, I consider , that the statements that you have provided are not electronic. According to the published guidance, these must be on official bank stationary, and must show each of the payments that you have claimed. The statements you have submitted are not on the correct stationary and therefore these cannot be considered.

Therefore you have been awarded only 20 points for your earnings of GBP 19175.



The ECO has not given me points for my salary credit in my IDBI account, inspite of submission of bank statement that was stamped and signed and had a covering letter from the Bank to authenticate the same.

IDBI bank's covering letter mentioned the below:

This is to certify that the bank statement for account no XYZ held by Mrs "A" and Mr "B" carries bank stamp and sign as they are an electronic statement and not on an official bank stationary.

Thus, this certificate is issued in conjunction with the certified electronic statement to be true and fair as per the bank records.


Friends, now you have the scenario and the issue...request you all to help me understand and draft an AR letter to be sent to the ECO that can perhaps help overturn the refusal....

Hi

Did the dot matrix paper had the logo of the Bank? if it did, then I am confident that AR will be successful.

[geriatrix]

Did the dot matrix paper had the logo of the Bank? if it did, then I am confident that AR will be successful.

Based on response from the OP (through PM), I can confirm that the AR was unsuccessful.

[dhruv]

Did the dot matrix paper had the logo of the Bank? if it did, then I am confident that AR will be successful.

Based on response from the OP (through PM), I can confirm that the AR was unsuccessful.

Wow, If the paper had the Logo and stamp? and then a letter was submitted from the bank, and even after that AR was rejected, then I have lost faith in the Visa process

[immmaker]

anybody knew why AR was unsuccessful?