treaty rights for minors

[mehroozeb]

hello everyone.
I have 2 irish minor kids ( 2 and a half year and 7 months old respectively). they have excercised thier treaty rights in UK as self suficient person. if they want to go back to The Republic of Ireland and excercise there treaty rights their. what will be procedure for us non eu parents to accompany them?
Many thanks
mehroo

[daddy]

It would be great if someone would share idea about this, I believe that there are many people on this great forum who would be interested in this topic.

Can a minor (child) excersise his or her right under eu freedom of movement and residence? Is it recognised? and how?
Please share your view.
Thousand thanks.

[walrusgumble]

How can a minor child be considered self sufficient? They can't work and in reality are dependant on the parent(s)

Techincally, if the parent can provide funds, health insurance etc, then, in certain circumstances yes. Read the following links carefully

Chen v UK 2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_case
http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/g ... ance=CONCL
http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/g ... ance=ARRET

Beware, I am aware that the English Domestic Courts have ensured a narrow interpretation of this case, which the Irish will likely apply.THe Chen case has not really been considered in Ireland that much, because in many cases, the facts are different ie no self sufficiency or actual exercise of rights.

Recently, as pointed out by a poster in another thread, the Chen case was again considered, though only by the advocate general, who, despite clear and unanimous disagreement by the Commission and a number of other countries, including Ireland and Germany, appears to adopt a wide and liberal approach. The Judges have yet to decide

http://citylawresearch.blogspot.com/201 ... brano.html

http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/f ... Rechercher

I would imagine there would be a mini war in Brussels if the immediate above judgement was allowed, as no one voted for this via the recent treaty nor was this previous understanding of the law. The usual "unelected" dictators etc.....



Strictly from the small facts you present, I assume that you had some sort of legal status in the UK. When you say UK do you mean mainland Britian or Northern Ireland?

How did the children get Irish citizenship? What was / is the non EU parent's legal status in Ireland and / or the UK?

You say that they are Irish Citizens? You would need to rely on Surinedeer Singh.

THe matters are up in the air, to be honest, so you should

[Obie]

This is a Chen kind case. It is well within the substantive scope of Chen and Singh/Eind.

If you can show a registration Certificate of the Child from the UK authorities, and evidence of Comprehensive insurance for all of you in the UK, and evidence of adequate fund i believe you will be okay.

Unlike the UK, the Irish have not stated how they deal with Chen type case. I believe the parents might be given Stamp 3, similar to the misapplication that is taking place in the UK, on the grounds that the parents are not family members.

Please note that the UK wrongly limit the scope of Surinder Singh to national who were employed or self-employed in another member state, so i assume if the Irish follow this same policy, there will be some problem. In fact there is no provision for the the non- EEA parents of British Children, who have live in another memberstate as a self- sufficient person.

I believe If Advocate General's opinion in Ruiz Zambrano , is engaged by the judges, it will be a good step in the right direction.

[mehroozeb]

I will tell you the situation in answer to some questions
we are in Northern Ireland.
My kids have irish citizenship because my husband has been in Northern Ireland on work permit and at the time of thier birth we already spent 3 out of the last 4 years on this basis.
My husband is on a work permit at the moment and i am his dependant. we are non EU citizens. we have two daughters (2.4 years and 7 months respectively) and they both hold Irish passport. my husband first came into this country (northern ireland) in 1999 on 6 months work permit he went back before visa expiry. then every year he would get 6 months work permit (April to September) with the same employer. every year he would stay for approximaetly 5 months untill 2005. in 2006 he got visa for 4.5 years. he is a profesional crickter and back home as well he would play and coach cricket. the job was permenant from the beginning however due to the nature of his job and for the benifite of the club and youth he would go back home to gain experience in his field. I joined him in April 2006. our visa here is due to expire soon (31/10/10). we own a home here as well. my daughter goes to playgroup and we are wel integrated into the society here. 6 years ago my husband's brother was killed and we cannot go back as he still fears for his safety and life. we have newspaper cutting to proof.

we are now sending application for indefinite leave to remain. however technically we do not qualify for indefinte leave to remain as we have to be here for cotinuous five years; we r 6 months short. the employer still needs my husband for the job in question. however due to recent changes in immigration rules the employer cannot get the license to employ him any more.


we have requested the Home Office to excersise their discretion in our favour and grant us indefinite leave to remian. but we do not have high hopes from them. if our application was refused here we would look into our options to move into the Republic of Ireland. we have already requested the department of jutice to grants us irish nationlity as we have irish children and our lawyer(in northern ireland) says we have good chances of success. however this application can take upto 26 months. we will obviously need a visa meanwhile.

hope that answers the questions asked.
any further advice/opinion suggestions please.