Appeal or not to appeal .. that's the question .. help!!

[abulotus]

Hi there,


Quick story .. I am non-EU holding RC and in full time employment, my wife (the EU) is student/self-sufficient. We have applied for FP to bring my parents (who are dependent on me, financially and emotionally) to come across to the UK. The application was refused 1st time "no proof of financial dependancy was provided". Instead of going through the appeal process we applied again (with money transfer receipts and bank statement from here and from the origin country). After waiting for almost a month the applications were refused again as the EC was not satisfied my parents are dependent on me. My parents have chronic diseases and need close medical attention. I did not include any medical letters to support this, unfortunately.

Now in the refusal letter my parents are given the chance to appeal to First-tier Immigration Tribunal here in the UK (which may take good 14-16 weeks for a hearing to take place).

- Shall we re-apply again for another FP (with these medical letters), or would it make sense to appeal here as the application has already been refused twice in the Embassy overseas?

- Can I apply for a visit visa then send an application for RC while they are here? Coming to this country on visit visa may make RC bit difficult or no difference?

NB. My parents were granted FP earlier this year (April), and it was a huge mistake to let them go out the country w/o applying for RC. At the time they had to go back to our origin country to sort out some family issues. Now my dad's health is deteriorating and he needs a close eye on him all the time.

I really appreciate your advice. I need them in the UK ASAP.


cheers

[86ti]

First you need to clarify: is your wife self-sufficient or a student? In the latter case the parents would most likely be classified as extended family members (according to this correspondence table this is not fully clear but you may have to assume that) which would make it more difficult.

[abulotus]

Well. Good question and simply the answer I do not know. When the EEA2&3 were sent over we ticked the two boxes (student with a letter from her college - ESOL course one day per week, and the self-sufficient with some bank statements as proof). She was issued registration certificate on this funny blue carton paper without mentioning under which category she is a qualified person.

In the refusal letter the EC said: "I acknowledge that the EU national (my wife) is residing in the UK. However You claimed you are financially dependent on your son, the EU spouse and you failed to provide evidence."

[abulotus]

I just wanted to emphasis this point: What will happen if I bring my parents on a visit visa and apply for RC while they are here? What are the chances of refusal/approval?

Experts please .. Shall I go through that route or will I appeal and get them here on FP first?

[mcovet]

Hi,

1) How did you get the FP the first time?

2) I wouldn't apply for a tourist visa, although if you have a guarantee of getting it, then surely bring them over, I know of a couple of cases where people come in on tourist visas and LEGALLY and successfully and lawfully apply then under the EU law, so if you can JUST get them in, go for it. Further, this should have absolutely no bearing on your future applications for Family Permits (if tourist application is refused) or if here, on the RC applications!; Most important thing is, if applying as tourists, they shouldn't try and prove they can sponsor themselves, as then it'd be a bit hard to prove dependency on the RC stage;

3) As the applications are free in the overseas embassy, I'd keep applying with medical evidence etc., if that's allowed pending the appeal hearing?

4) if that's not allowed, I'd withdraw the appeal, apply again and if unsuccessful, appeal again, as the appeal right would lie following ANY EU related decision!;

5) in that new application I'd get as much evidence supporting your case, medical notes, bank transfers, extensive covering letter explaining your rights and that you can't wait for the appeal hearing as this causes you undue hardship as the parents need immediate care and attention, which they lack in their country as no other relatives etc.;

6) Also, if you did get FP the first time on the basis of their dependency (hence question 1 above) you could use that to your advantage, claiming that the dependency had already been proved once etc!

I am positive you will have positive outcome, keep us updated and let us know of any details you find relevant.

[abulotus]

Mcovet, thanx for reply .

I'd been hanging around and replied to your previous thread about your grandma !!

Anyway let's stick to this post here.

I was shocked when the first FP was issued with very little effort. It took less than 48 hours before the FP sticked on their passports. I only included one receipt of money transfer .. and that's it.

On this occasion we included few receipts and proof that they visited the UK in the past, but the EC still not convinced !!

To be honest, I have already booked an appointment for them with VFS to apply for visit visa tomorrow, but after reading your comments I am seriously thinking of getting them another FP application instead. Let's see how thing will be. Will keep u updated`..

[abulotus]

A quick update ..


My parents applied for a 3rd EEA FP and was rejected again for vague reasons. We reapplied for a family general visitor visa and surprisingly refused again on the grounds my parents are not genuinely seeking a visitor visa and they don't intend to leave at the end of their visit !!!! I included a sponsorship declaration with a return ticket, and undertaking by me to send them back home once visa expires .. but still refused.


I will lodge an appeal now .. and would appreciate any advice on what information can I include to support the appeal. In the caseworker instructions something is mentioned about undertakings/guarantees by MPs, community leaders ..etc?? Any ideas?

Honestly I won't take the risk to keep them beyond their visa period and will send them back, but how to support this in the appeal? PLEASE help experts ..

[easy77]

Hi, just saw ur post. But you shouldn't have applied for visitor visa as it will be difficult to proof they will leave at the end of their stay based on the FP applications. My advise now is to go to appeal on the family permit, but make sure u get the needed supporting documents to prove dependency nd include the medical stuff as well. One point I'm not too sure about is if a eea national student can sponsor extended family member? Pls any ideas!!!

[abulotus]

EEA student can support extended family members if they are financially dependent on him/her. This is bit difficult and I have never heard about a successful similar story.

Back to my story .. I am lodging an appeal next week and currently drafting the statement. I will include:

- Bank statements (overseas joint account - my name and my father's) - in sterling, and showing inward money transfer. There is some money now in that account.
- Money transfer receipt via a london-based money transfer company.
- Medical reports/Lab tests/Scans reports/Hospital letter (all from overseas) explaining my father's health condition and the need of close medical attention all the time.
- Previous Refusal Notices by ECO for 3 EEA family permits
- Copy of my parents' EEA FP (granted back in March 2010)
- I think I need to explain why my parents did not stay and apply for RC when came to the UK back in March, and that because their health has been deteriorating since I would bring them to live with me. (as I already work for the NHS)

I really appreciate any advice on what more can I include especially from my origin country? And shall I get a solicitor to do the job for me or it'd better to save some money?

NB. Can these Immigration Advice Services\Law centers\ Citizens Advice Bureau offer help and advice, and does it worth speaking to them?

Thanks everybody

[abulotus]

John, Vinny .. Any advice?

[86ti]

We reapplied for a family general visitor visa and surprisingly refused again on the grounds my parents are not genuinely seeking a visitor visa and they don't intend to leave at the end of their visit !!!!

Sorry to say, but that can't be a surprise to you because that's exactly what I have told you some time ago.

[WANRAWIN]

hi there, have ur parents case success?
im about to do the same for my mother..

[WANRAWIN]

hi there, have ur parents case success?
im about to do the same for my mother..

would you suggest that i should apply FP for her first and then RC when she gets here?
i believe that its not as simple as its sound ,is it?
jas

[abulotus]

Just wanted to update this old discussion.


I appealed to First Tier tribunal last June but the case was dismissed unfortunately. The judge states in his letter:

1. My parents financial circumstances and resources not clear
2. Why my parents retired at early age of 58! (just ridiculous)
3. Why my parents are not supported by my brothers (I have two brothers who live in my origin country)
4. Lack of evidence of funding transfer

I thought it'd be sensible to hold fire for a while and try to gather more evidence before going back into the fight.

Now I'm ready and well armed with new evidence:

1. More money transfer receipts (covering 12 months back)
2. Letter from General Pension Agency in my home country stating that my father received a lump sum (just rubbish amount) in mid 1980s when he ended his state employment, but not receiving any more pension.
3. Official letter he is not employed by any of State departments.
4. Letter by the company where my father worked privately for last 10 years before he retired in 2008 stating basic salary (again money that hardly cover daily needs approx £100), and the date when he left the company.
5. Letter by my eldest brother's employer (salary also rubbish approx £150)
6. Civil Extract of eldest brother's family (he's married with two sons)
7. Letter by my younger brother's college confirming he's still in education.
8. Affidavit (done in my country of origin) from my parents testifying that I am their sole income provider and that they are elderly and not working.
9. Affidavit by me that I'm their sponsor and supporter .


This all I can think of now. I just wanted to check if original documents should be sent or probably I can send photocopies and mention that originals are available on request (you know it took me months to collect all these papers and it would be very stupid to lose them now. The ECO never returned any supporting documents previously.)

I will lodge the application at some point next week. I really appreciate if anything else can be added as I'm really getting fed up with HO.