Naturalisation timescales and documentation

[shankarindian]

Some queries on timescales and documentation requirements for naturalisation.

1. The helpline number for nationality has a recorded message saying all naturalisation applications take a minimum of 6 months. When I spoke to someone there, they said even NCS applications are taking 6 months. Has anyone applied recently (i.e. after 1st Nov 2005). What are the timescales based on any personal experience? What are realistic timescales when applied through NCS these days?

2. Regarding the documents to be sent along with naturalisation application, is birth certificate to be sent mandatorily? or the foreign passport (in my case Indian passport) held by the applicant good enough in all situations where a birth certificate is required? Similarly is birth certificate mandatory while applying for the British passport (after successful naturalisation)?

[lemess]

My wife applied after 15 Nov via NCS. Turnaround time was 3 weeks.
Obviously the time taken varies with the individual but my impression is that for a straightforward aplication through NCS, 6 months is a rather conservative indication. You should probably expect a turnaround time of about 3-4 months via NCS and if it gets through sooner than that then rejoice !

You don't need a birth certificate at any stage of naturalisation or passport application - a foreign passport is enough.

[John]

The IND website is curently indicating :-

These are the waiting times as of end of January.

Naturalisation 3.98 months
Adult registrations 1.71 months
Registration of minors 3.56 months
Registration of stateless 5.95 months
Other registrations 3.31 months
Renunciations 1.57 months
Right of Abode applications 2.86 months

Average times for all nationality applications (as of end of January) 3.81 months

The short increase of waiting times for ALL Nationality applications is due to a large influx of Naturalisation applications received prior to 1st November 2005.

I emphasise that all those figures relate to average waiting times. Clearly some people hear a lot quicker than those average lengths of time ... others wait longer.

[ppron747]

The "Applying for Nationality" page of the IND website also has the following, putting a bit more "gloss" on the figures.

Applications for Citizenship

We received a very high number of citizenship applications during October 2005. We will be processing these as quickly as possible but applicants may experience slightly longer delays than usual while we cope with this very high demand.

All applications have been entered onto our systems and acknowledgement letter have been sent. If you have not yet received an acknowledgement of your application you can contact us on...0845 010 5200. You will need to provide us with your personal details - name, address, date of birth, H.O. reference number, if available - and also date of application if possible and any RD/Special Delivery number relating to the application (if appropriate).

Once you have received an acknowledgement you can be reassured that your application will be dealt with as soon as we can. Please bear with us, we received more than four months' work in a matter of days. We do have a number of experienced teams processing applications and some people will already have received theirs back. Our previous performance was that 56% of applications were completed in 3 months and 96% in 6 months. We estimate we will be able to complete all applications received in October 05 by June 06......

....Please contact Nationality Group in urgent cases only. A lot of enquiries can slow down decision times.

If you wish to apply for British citizenship and you plan to travel abroad within 12 weeks of making an application, you should not send in original passports or travel documents with your application. You may send in copies of documents certified by a solicitor. Each page of a passport must be copied.

[boylove]

This thread should have given you a fair idea of how things are mocing at the moment.
http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=5575

[shankarindian]

I saw from an old posting from bbdivo that passport applications submitted through Post-and-Check at post office ask for birth certificate in all cases. UK Passport Agency website does not mention the requirement for birth certificate.

Why then does post office ask for birth certificate?

Post office check-and-send web site is at

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/c ... d=19100197

[ppron747]

I suspect it is simply that, like NCS, the Post Office are doing things strictly "by the numbers", without exercising discretion - they're training is probably restricted to ticking boxes rather than forming judgements.

The fact is that most British passport applicants will have been born in UK, and it is appropriate to ask them for birth certificates. It is probably "too complicated" (in the minds of PO/UKPS) to explain to non nationality-trained counter staff the circumstances in which a birth certificate need not be requested.

But why not take it up with them?

[rogerroger]

oh i did not know that one has to produce the birth certificate. i am nto even sure if i have it on me.

ppron do you think the post office people will accept the argument that we were born outside the uk and just become nationals, and the citizenship certificate from the home office is the proof,
if we do have to show the certificate, is it returned by the postoffice there and then.
i looked high and low for my birth certificate, can't find, can i not just show my indian passport which is proof of my date of birth and my parentage

hey i checked the "how to fill in your passport application form"
on page 3, the "suporting documents needed for a first passport" 3rd row states

"british national after being granted a certificate of registration of naturalisation by the home office: The passport on which you enetered the UK and your Home Office certificate of registration or naturalisation. This should not be confused with any ceremonial certificate you may have been given at the same time."

it does nto state that i need to produce my birth certificate.

i had a question abotu the counter signatory, can i get my landlord to sign, though he is self employed. i got my friend to sign it, however he went outside the box a bit and i think the appilcation is now invalid. unfortunately i just had the one form

[ppron747]

oh i did not know that one has to produce the birth certificate. i am nto even sure if i have it on me.

ppron do you think the post office people will accept the argument that we were born outside the uk and just become nationals, and the citizenship certificate from the home office is the proof,
if we do have to show the certificate, is it returned by the postoffice there and then.

I honestly don't know, rogerroger: the link provided by shankarindian seems pretty unambiguous, and the last time I speculated that a person in the passport-issuing chain might possibly betray human characteristics by exercising flexibility and judgement, I got attacked behaving in such an irresponsible manner. In your position, I'd try it, if I was in a hurry for the passport. But it does seem to me that UKPS are likely to be a bit less busy at this time of year - Easter is not until mid-April - so do you actually need the little bit of priority that the check and send service offers? The lack of birth certificate seems unlikely to cause a problem with a direct postal application to UKPS...

i had a question abotu the counter signatory, can i get my landlord to sign, though he is self employed. i got my friend to sign it, however he went outside the box a bit and i think the appilcation is now invalid. unfortunately i just had the one form

I haven't got a passport application handy (and won't, until 2011!) but does it matter if the countersignature goes outside the box? I countersigned someone's driving licence application today, and it was only the applicant who had to be careful about keeping in the box, because that signature gets scanned onto the the driving licence. If your friend has invalidated your application and you can't get him to sign a fresh form for some reason, I think it is important that you stick rigidly to the list of qualified counter-sigs provided by UKPS - that's one point where the UKPS are less likely to exercise discretion, in these identity theft-conscious days, IMO....

[rogerroger]

thanks for the reply

pray tell me, who attacked you?

I honestly don't know, rogerroger: the link provided by shankarindian seems pretty unambiguous, and the last time I speculated that a person in the passport-issuing chain might possibly betray human characteristics by exercising flexibility and judgement, I got attacked behaving in such an irresponsible manner.

the application does say
"Important-keep within the border. If you fail to do this, the applicaito nwill not be valid". my friends signature has extended 2 mm into the border.

i see yoru point that it is my sign which should be within the borders since that is the one that is going to be scanned and goes onto my passport.

i wanted to go through the post office check in service not only because of the speed but also because they would tell me if i had made any errors, and also ensure that the documents i send were correct, i will get the documents(passport, certificate) back from the post office or it will be sent along with the shiny red passport?

[ppron747]

I'll let you do the search on the first question, RR!

I don't think you get the documents straight back when you apply through Post Offices - the low fee wouldn't justify the time spent on copying, and I think UKPS would want to see originals in any case.

AIUI, because most passports are produced on an assembly line (which automatically puts the passport into an envelope ready for despatch) you get the documents posted back separately, from the UKPS office that authorises the application, while the passport itself is generally sent direct from the printing facility near Oldham.

[John]

i had a question abotu the counter signatory, can i get my landlord to sign, though he is self employed.

What is the occupation of this person? The fact that he/she is self-employed is irrelevant ... what do they do for a living? Not everyone is entitled to countersign a passport application form. How long have you known that person?

[rogerroger]

the guy you used to work in the bank, he quit his job and started his own business.

i have known him for 1 year and 10 months that is almost 2 years right)

i can ask another of my friends who is a contract engineer but it is going to be much more easy asking the guy who is self employed

[John]

i have known him for 1 year and 10 months that is almost 2 years right

It is, but it is not two years! I really do think you should find someone you have known for at least two years.

[ppron747]

Look RR - just how difficult is this? It boils down to whether he/she is a British or Irish passport holder who has known you for at least two years (which isn't 22 months...) and whether he/she fits into the following list:

Accountant; Articled clerk of a limited company; Assurance agent of recognised company; Bank/building society official; Barrister; Broker; Chairman/director of limited company; Chemist; Chiropodist; Christian Science practitioner; Commissioner of oaths; Councillor: local or county; Civil servant (permanent); Dentist; Engineer (with professional qualifications); Fire service official; Funeral director; Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company; Journalist; Justice of the Peace; Legal secretary (members and fellows of the Institute of legal secretaries); Local government officer; Manager/Personnel officer (of limited company); Member of Parliament; Merchant Navy officer; Minister of a recognised religion; Nurse (SRN and SEN); Officer of the armed services (active or retired); Optician; Person with honours (e.g. OBE MBE etc.); Photographer (professional); Police officer; Post Office official; President/Secretary of a recognised organisation; Salvation Army officer; Social worker; Solicitor; Surveyor; Teacher, lecturer; Trade union officer; Travel agency (qualified); Valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society); Warrant officers and Chief Petty Officers.

If he/she doesn't meet the criteria, you'll need to ask the UKPS whether they'll make an exception.

[rogerroger]

ah i know a social worker
she was actually a civil sevent, but she has gotten out of employement and decided to be a house-wife

i thought 22 months is close enough. if it were not for my friend messing up the application, and i drove 60 miles + for the signature

you guys think the post office will accept the application without a birth certificate. if it is passed by the post office, the application is through, right?

[confused1]

Rogerroger, If you have been Naturalised/Registered as a British citizen then, you don't need to provide your Birth certificate when you spply for a UK passport. They only asks for the passport which you have used to enter in the UK and you Naturalisation/Registration certificate.

If you have lost your passport then you need to specify when you have lost it.
That's all.

[rogerroger]

thanks confused1,

i found out that i did not have to produce my brith certificate when i went to the posst office. unfortunately i had made so many alterations, that the lady told me to submit a new applicatio nsince the passport office might just reject this application.

that's cool, a simple section for a lost passport, unlike previously getting affidavits and all that ....

[lemess]

I saw from an old posting from bbdivo that passport applications submitted through Post-and-Check at post office ask for birth certificate in all cases. UK Passport Agency website does not mention the requirement for birth certificate.

Why then does post office ask for birth certificate?

Post office check-and-send web site is at

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/c ... d=19100197

I can assure you from personal experience that birth certificates etc. are NOT needed for passport applications by postal check and send for naturalised citizens. The naturalisation certificate and the foreign passport are enough.

In any case what is needed is proof of birth details and proof of british citizenship. For a person born in the UK a birth certificate provides both.
For people who have naturalised a passport serves as the former and the naturalisation certificate the latter. The signed and attested photographs serve to attest the identity of the applicant for UK born citizens as the birth certificate is proof of an event not of identity. A foreign passport on the other hand is a proof of identity as well as birth details - even though they require attested photos for first time naturalised applicants as well.