Switchiing from Tier 4 to Tier 1 before completion of course

[ricky37d]

Hi

Is it ok to switch from Tier 4 (student visa) to Tier 1 (General, not PSW) before the completion of my degree?..

I have enough points on my previous earnings.

I Guess we can apply within 12 months of studies

Thanks
Ricky

[mulderpf]

Yes, you can switch as long as you qualify for enough points.

[ricky37d]

Hi mulderpf

Thanks for your reply

I will be going on student visa this month and apply for Tier 1 after I get there. Would this be a problem?

Thanks
Ricky

[ricky37d]

Especially considering the changes that came into effect 23rd Dec

Seniors, Please help with this

Thanks again

[martincyy]

Especially considering the changes that came into effect 23rd Dec

Seniors, Please help with this

Thanks again

it's hard for others to help you with such limited information

[rizwan567]

Hi

Is it ok to switch from Tier 4 (student visa) to Tier 1 (General, not PSW) before the completion of my degree?..

I have enough points on my previous earnings.

I Guess we can apply within 12 months of studies

Thanks
Ricky

Yes, you can switch indeed. But keep in mind that you need to claim income for maximum of 12 months in the last 15 months of the date of your application.

Hope this clarifies your situation.
Earnings can not be backdated.

[geriatrix]

Grounds on which leave to remain and variation of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom should normally be refused
.. (3) failure to comply with any conditions attached to the grant of leave to enter or remain;
.. (7) failure by the person concerned to honour any declaration or undertaking given orally or in writing as to the intended duration and/or purpose of his stay;

AIUI, by applying for entry clearance as Tier 4 (General) migrant, you are making an oral (if not written) declaration that the purpose of your stay in the UK (for which you are applying for entry clearance) is to study in the UK.

You are the best person to judge whether the risk is worth taking, no matter how small it may be.


IMHO .....


regards

[mulderpf]

By applying for a Tier 4 with the specific intention of switching to Tier 1 changes things a little. I was under the impression that you had your Tier 4 visa already and maybe didn't wait for results or something.

I am sure you would raise some suspicions by applying for a Tier 1 so soon after entering with a Tier 4.

[wf]

He has enrolled in (and I would assume paid for) a course.

IMO that is enough to prove he intends to study. Hypothetically, what's is to say he doesn't change his mind after getting here?

[ricky37d]

Yes I have enrolled into a college but my course starts in Feb

while I understand my application will be valid and I see no changes to rules post 23rd dec which prohibit me to change my status when I arrive there

Can the circumstances go against me?...

[mulderpf]

Agreed, but don't you think the home office will find it a bit strange that someone applied for a Tier 4 visa (and from what I can see it's for a degree), paid for the degree, went to the UK and before doing much studying already switch to Tier 1.

Tier 4 allows you to study full-time, Tier 1 allows you to work full-time. If you switch after paying for a course you intend on doing full-time, are you going to work or study? By paying for a course upfront, you are showing that you intend on studying full-time, but with Tier 1 you are meant to be working in a professional capacity (a job which won't allow you to also study full-time).

This is all just opinion, and based on my interpretation. You might be lucky or not. The rules allow you to switch, but your actions won't match up with what you say your intentions are.

[ricky37d]

I agree to your point and I know I am going to need all the luck

"If" I get the Tier-1 visa, wouldnt it make my Tier 4 invalid?

[mulderpf]

Yes, if approved, your previous visa will be cancelled.

Good luck.

[ricky37d]

Is student Visitor also in the category of Tier 4 , or it is a seperate visa

[wf]

You can't switch from student visitor.

[mulderpf]

No, it's completely different and not suited to any of your needs. It's only valid for 6 months or less and you have to prove strong ties to your home country. Also, you cannot switch from student visitor visa to another category.

[rizwan567]

Grounds on which leave to remain and variation of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom should normally be refused
.. (3) failure to comply with any conditions attached to the grant of leave to enter or remain;
.. (7) failure by the person concerned to honour any declaration or undertaking given orally or in writing as to the intended duration and/or purpose of his stay;

AIUI, by applying for entry clearance as Tier 4 (General) migrant, you are making an oral (if not written) declaration that the purpose of your stay in the UK (for which you are applying for entry clearance) is to study in the UK.

You are the best person to judge whether the risk is worth taking, no matter how small it may be.


IMHO .....


regards

I belive what you say, if that is the case then UKBA should never allow Tier 4 holder to switch to Tier 1 General.

So its sort of contradiction in UKBA policies.. If they want student to return then why the hell they are allowing student to switch!

Applicant do not need to ask himself or oral committment he made to UKBA. Rules are rules and he can switch, simple is that.

[rizwan567]

Agreed, but don't you think the home office will find it a bit strange that someone applied for a Tier 4 visa (and from what I can see it's for a degree), paid for the degree, went to the UK and before doing much studying already switch to Tier 1.

Tier 4 allows you to study full-time, Tier 1 allows you to work full-time. If you switch after paying for a course you intend on doing full-time, are you going to work or study? By paying for a course upfront, you are showing that you intend on studying full-time, but with Tier 1 you are meant to be working in a professional capacity (a job which won't allow you to also study full-time).

This is all just opinion, and based on my interpretation. You might be lucky or not. The rules allow you to switch, but your actions won't match up with what you say your intentions are.

Nothing will happen to the applicant. He is not breaking any law or rule or using deception. Its explicittly written in Tier 1 Guidance that Tier 4 holder can switch to Tier 1 Genearl. Even if UKBA does find out that applicant just came into the country on Tier 4, they still can not refuse the application. If they do so then tehy are themselves not following the Tier 1 General guidance and this can easily be challenged in the court.

[mulderpf]

No Rizwan, there's a big difference in getting a Tier 4 with the sole intention of switching to Tier 1 because there's no other route in and getting a Tier 4 with the intention to study after which the applicant decides to switch.

Switching within a month or two of getting your Tier 4 visa which was issued for the purpose of degree study will be nothing less than suspicious.

It's a risk and there's a likelihood that the OP will have no problem, but it cannot be guaranteed. Visas can be cancelled and are cancelled when IO's don't believe the story of the immigrant. I have heard of stories where visas are cancelled at the airport upon entry or re-entry, so I'm sure they can do it when you apply for a different visa too.

The bottom line is that there's a fine line between using the system to your advantage and abusing it. I'm not sure which side of the line this would fall under.

[push]

How is that different from sham marriages that people do in order to get spouse VISA.

[Dreemweaver]

No Rizwan, there's a big difference in getting a Tier 4 with the sole intention of switching to Tier 1 because there's no other route in and getting a Tier 4 with the intention to study after which the applicant decides to switch.

....

I agree with the suspicion part. But can they deny visa because of it? I thought its all about the points and the documents you submit. If they feel that the documents are fake then they can refuse. I am not sure if they have the right to refuse just because they think that the applicant is misusing the rules/law. Correct me if I am wrong

Maybe it's a loophole in the system?

[mulderpf]

You definitely can be refused. While it's fine to say that if you get the points you get in, many people are refused because of false representations, even if they get the points with the false representation (albeit mostly in the form of false documents).

In this case the false representation would be the non-disclosure of material facts. Obviously this up to interpretation, but if they wish to refuse you for this, it's very possible.

[Dreemweaver]

You definitely can be refused. While it's fine to say that if you get the points you get in, many people are refused because of false representations, even if they get the points with the false representation (albeit mostly in the form of false documents).

In this case the false representation would be the non-disclosure of material facts. Obviously this up to interpretation, but if they wish to refuse you for this, it's very possible.

I agree with false documents. But is it anywhere mentioned that you should not switch to Tier 1 just after you have got Tier 4?

Don't take me wrong. I am just trying to see if OP has a chance to appeal in the court of law if the visa is refused

[geriatrix]

I am just trying to see if OP has a chance to appeal in the court of law if the visa is refused

There's no right to appeal when applicant's current leave is valid (not expired). There may be an option to apply for judicial review instead, I believe, if the applicant decides to challenge the refusal as being unlawful.


regards

[Dreemweaver]

I am just trying to see if OP has a chance to appeal in the court of law if the visa is refused

There's no right to appeal when applicant's current leave is valid (not expired). There may be an option to apply for judicial review instead, I believe, if the applicant decides to challenge the refusal as being unlawful.
regards

Thanks sushdmehta for the clarification.