Acquiring UK permant residency through irish citizenship

[joshuaes]

I have recently acquired Irish citizenship (through descent) and was wondering if it accorded any special rights in naturalising to the UK?? I am uncertain, but I believe I read somewhere that I now have de facto right of abode in the UK and that this allows me to apply for a residence permit with settled status without having to wait ??? I am still required to wait the five years before applying for naturalisation???


Thanks

[joshuaes]

I am already aware of my rights as a EEA national, just wanted to speed up a visa with settled status and then naturalisation.

Thanks

[JAJ]

I am already aware of my rights as a EEA national, just wanted to speed up a visa with settled status and then naturalisation.

Thanks

For some reason (maybe political?) the Home Office does not publish any specific information on the special situation of Irish citizens in the UK.

However as an Irish citizen you should be deemed to have Indefinite Leave to Remain (de-facto "settled status") already. This is as a result not of the EEA rules, but of the Common Travel Area.

How long have you lived in the UK? Once you meet normal residence requirements, you can apply for naturalisation as a British citizen if that's what you want to do.

Have you got children born in the UK before you became an Irish citizen? If so, then can now be registered as British citizens under s1(3) of the British Nationality Act.

You now also have the right to vote and stand for public office should you wish.

[joshuaes]

I have only been living in the uk for about a year.

How does one go about proving length of residency? I am assuming they look at things like bank accounts and such.

I now have more than one passport. For examination of stay will they look at all of them??? Will it be easier to get around the travel restrictions?? I am not sure how or if any of this will effect my application when I go to apply for naturalisation.

Thanks

[JAJ]

I have only been living in the uk for about a year.

So it will be some time yet before you can apply for naturalisation.

Haver you got a spouse and/or children, and if so, what nationality are they?

How does one go about proving length of residency? I am assuming they look at things like bank accounts and such.

Bank accounts, employment records, education records, utility bills, council tax etc etc.

I now have more than one passport. For examination of stay will they look at all of them??? Will it be easier to get around the travel restrictions?? I am not sure how or if any of this will effect my application when I go to apply for naturalisation.

Thanks

Usually they want to see a copy of all pages of any passport you have held over the residence qualification period. They will normally accept certified copies instead of originals.

But by the time you get to apply for naturalisation, the Nationality Checking Service may be the standard way to apply.

One further thing you should know. If you're wealthy enough to claim a benefit from non-domiciled tax concessions and the "remittance basis" for foreign source income, this is usually incompatible with a section 6(1) naturalisation application (ie where you apply for naturalisation but are not married to a British citizen). If you have a professional tax adviser, talk to this person. Also, if you're a U.S. citizen then you need to consider the U.S. implications of any tax planning strategy. And at the end of the day, tax issues are usually not a good basis to make citizenship decisions.

[lemess]

I have recently acquired Irish citizenship (through descent) and was wondering if it accorded any special rights in naturalising to the UK?? I am uncertain, but I believe I read somewhere that I now have de facto right of abode in the UK and that this allows me to apply for a residence permit with settled status without having to wait ??? I am still required to wait the five years before applying for naturalisation???


Thanks

Out of interest why do you want to naturalise as a UK citizen ? As an Irish citizen you already have all the rights a UK citizen has in the UK and Europe.

[JAJ]

Out of interest why do you want to naturalise as a UK citizen ? As an Irish citizen you already have all the rights a UK citizen has in the UK and Europe.

There are certain things that Irish citizens are restricted from doing. It's also an insurance policy against future changes in the law, which cannot be predicted.

But I really cannot understand why people ask Irish and other EEA citizens the question "why do you want to naturalise as a British citizen?". If you see the United Kingdom as your home, then why would you want to be a foreigner?

[lemess]

With respect JAJ, having a home somewhere does not equate to feeling the urge to naturalise especially in this day and age.
Of course it can be a symbolic gesture but within free movement areas such as the EU and the CTA I wonder how many people from other nationalities who have the right to freely live and work here feel the time and expense that would be involved in going through a naturalisation process worthwhile if there are no tangible associated benefits ( apart from the symbolic one) ?
I would submit only a minority

People live happily in countries other than their own without feeling the need to become citizens. The country of birth is always part of someone's identity. The decision to naturalise as a citizen of another country is usually made when there are some clear associated benefits - beyond the merely symbolic.

At least that is my experience.

[JAJ]

With respect JAJ, having a home somewhere does not equate to feeling the urge to naturalise especially in this day and age.

Maybe not for some but those who do want to naturalise should not be challenged as to why they want to.

Of course it can be a symbolic gesture but within free movement areas such as the EU and the CTA I wonder how many people from other nationalities who have the right to freely live and work here feel the time and expense that would be involved in going through a naturalisation process worthwhile if there are no tangible associated benefits ( apart from the symbolic one) ?
I would submit only a minority

The Home Office has done some research on this, in the publication "Persons Granted British Citizenship"

People live happily in countries other than their own without feeling the need to become citizens.

Some people do. And others are unhappy at being foreigners in their adopted country.

The country of birth is always part of someone's identity.

Not in all cases. Some people feel neutral towards their country of birth, others actively dislike it for a variety of reasons.

The decision to naturalise as a citizen of another country is usually made when there are some clear associated benefits - beyond the merely symbolic.

At least that is my experience.

But perhaps not the experience of others ...

[lemess]

Maybe not for some but those who do want to naturalise should not be challenged as to why they want to.

A polite question is not a 'challenge'. No one is demanding that the OP justify his decision to anyone - I am just curious about the issues which make an Irish citizen want to naturalise in the UK. I know loads of Irish people who work in the Uk and they all retain irish citizenship so that prompted the question. Frankly the question was addressed to him and I would be interested to hear what his reasons are.

This is an immigration board and if someone posts their circumstances looking for advice I don't see why someone shouldn't politely inquire abut their reasons for making what would appear to be an unusual choice. I think you're reading far more into a simple, straightforward question than is necessary.

[JAJ]

[A polite question is not a 'challenge'. No one is demanding that the OP justify his decision to anyone - I am just curious about the issues which make an Irish citizen want to naturalise in the UK. I know loads of Irish people who work in the Uk and they all retain irish citizenship so that prompted the question. Frankly the question was addressed to him and I would be interested to hear what his reasons are.

This is an immigration board and if someone posts their circumstances looking for advice I don't see why someone shouldn't politely inquire abut their reasons for making what would appear to be an unusual choice. I think you're reading far more into a simple, straightforward question than is necessary.

Perhaps my reaction was overly strong, if so I apologise. However it seems to be a regular question directed towards Irish or other EEA nationals thinking of taking out British citizenship as to "why" they want to do so.

There are a variety of reasons why an Irish or other EEA national might want to take out British citizenship. Practical reasons, such as to vote, stand for public office, carry a British passport, or work in a policy level Civil Service position, among others. An insurance policy against future changes in the immigration laws. But there is also the emotional link to the United Kingdom as an adopted country - no amount of EEA/CTA concessions can alter the fact that there is a difference between living in the United Kingdom as a British citizen who has made a commitment to the country, and being a foreigner just resident in the country under a concession in the immigration laws.

With regard to Irish citizens the Home Office's research shows the take-up rate of British citizenship to be very low (about 20% of all long term residents, much less among those in the United Kingdom for less than 10 years). It is difficult to understand why so many Irish citizens want to live in the United Kingdom long term, effectively be part of the British community, and yet not wish to hold British citizenship. Especially as the Republic of Ireland allows dual citizenship.

The Australian government is active in encouraging eligible permanent residents to take out Australian citizenship, at least since 2001. In particular, the government is encouraging the two largest groups of eligible persons - British and New Zealanders - to formalise their commitment to Australia by taking out citizenship.

Perhaps the same thing is needed in the United Kingdom, where the government would actively encourage eligible permanent residents to take out British citizenship, with the campaign targeted at those groups where the take-up rate of British citizenship is low. The Irish would be the first in line by a long way.

And not quite on topic for this thread, but anecdotally, the British Embassy in Dublin issues quite a lot of British subject passports each year to persons born in the Republic of Ireland before 1949 who haven't got any other claim to British nationality but prefer to travel on British passports. I don't know how many British subject passports are issued by UKPS (to British subjects resident in the UK) each year, it usually makes sense for an "Irish" British subject resident in the UK to upgrade to full British citizenship by doing a s4 registration, but there seems to be widespread ignorance of this possibility.

[rnc312]

My wife, too, is soon to become an Irish citizen through descent (Irish-born grandfather)! We are American but hope to emigrate to Britain in the near future.

I wasn't aware until now that an Irish citizen residing in the UK has the same basic rights as a British citizen. However, does it make a difference at all if an Irish citizen living in the UK:

(a) was born outside of Ireland;

(b) has never resided in Ireland

"British citizens, Commonwealth citizens with the right of abode in the United Kingdom and Irish citizens from Ireland are not subject to immigration control."

Is the above statement completely true or does it not matter if an Irish citizen is from Ireland in order to have the same rights as a British citizen?

I would assume British subject passports are only given to Irish citizens who were born and/or resided in Ireland for a particular amount of time? Or am I mistaken?

Thanks!

[VictoriaS]

Irish nationals in the UK actually have MORE rights than UK nationals - which is why I am doing the same thing that your wife is doing, and registering as an Irish National born overseas, even though I am British.

To answer your questions, no, it makes no difference if she was born outside of Ireland, or has never even set foot in Ireland. She is an Irish nationa, that means that she can use EU law.

British passports are not given to Irish citizens as a matter of course. They have to have to have been born in Ireland before 1922 or have been resident in the UK, or have another claim under the various nationality acts.

Victoria

[JAJ]

Irish nationals in the UK actually have MORE rights than UK nationals - which is why I am doing the same thing that your wife is doing, and registering as an Irish National born overseas, even though I am British.

To answer your questions, no, it makes no difference if she was born outside of Ireland, or has never even set foot in Ireland. She is an Irish nationa, that means that she can use EU law.

But whether she should use EU law is another question. Husband will get permanent residence more quickly if they use domestic U.K. immigration law.

British passports are not given to Irish citizens as a matter of course. They have to have to have been born in Ireland before 1922

In face the cut-off date is 1 January 1949, but if the only claim to British nationality is through birth in what is now the the Republic of Ireland the person only gets a British subject passport, which means a lot of travel problems.

In a small number of cases those born in that area before 6 December 1922 may claim British citizenship through the provisions of section 5 of the Ireland Act 1949.

Otherwise Irish citizens normally have to live in the United Kingdom for 5 years and can then become naturalised British through the normal rules.

[VictoriaS]

But whether she should use EU law is another question. Husband will get permanent residence more quickly if they use domestic U.K. immigration law.

Absolutely. But if, for example, the couple could not meet the support and accommodation aspects of the Immigration Rules, going the EEA route would be a good idea.

Victoria

[rnc312]

Thank you. I really appreciate your helpful responses!

Is there a good online resource that can help me compare the specifics of domestic UK immigartion law with an EEA/EU national's rights?

Thanks again from across the Atlantic ...

[JAJ]

Thank you. I really appreciate your helpful responses!

Is there a good online resource that can help me compare the specifics of domestic UK immigartion law with an EEA/EU national's rights?

Not really. Basically the EEA route is simpler and quicker (and free, up to and including permanent residence), but you wait a longer time to get permanent residence.

You need to be a permanent resident in order to become a British citizen.

Some British diplomatic officials don't know that Irish citizens and certain other EEA citizens have the ability to sponsor under the U.K. domestic laws as well.

Are you planning to have any children born in the U.K.?

[rnc312]

We have a four-year-old son right now, but we don't have any current plans for another child at the moment. If we change our minds, it sounds like our British-born child would become a British citizen, correct?

Since my wife will have her Irish/U.S. citizenship and I am non-EEA (American) how will our son become a British citizen under EU law (or UK domestic law)?

Thanks!

[JAJ]

We have a four-year-old son right now, but we don't have any current plans for another child at the moment. If we change our minds, it sounds like our British-born child would become a British citizen, correct?

Since my wife will have her Irish/U.S. citizenship and I am non-EEA (American) how will our son become a British citizen under EU law (or UK domestic law)?

Irish citizens are automatically considered to be "settled" in the United Kingdom (if living in the U.K.) and hence most children born in the U.K. with an Irish citizen parent are automatically British citizens.

You should also be aware that any child born after your wife becomes an Irish citizen can also be registered as an Irish citizen.

The child you already have can be registered as a British citizen at the same time as at least one parent becomes naturalised.

[rnc312]

Okay, so to become a naturalized citizen I would have to work and reside in Britain for five consecutive years, then file an application for UK citizenship? And, my son would become a British citizen as result of my successful naturalizaton. That seems too easy! Am I missing something?

Lastly, not to sound paranoid, but are there any specific reasons the British goverment might decide to deport us -- outside of being convicted of a crime, of course -- despite my wife having Indefinite Leave to Remain?

[rnc312]

"Non-British children with an EEA/Swiss parent may be registered as British once the parent becomes "settled" in the United Kingdom under the terms of the Immigration Regulations dealing with EEA citizens."

Not sure of the accuracy of this statement I found on Wikipedia about British nationality law. If this is true, however, would my Irish national wife's settled status in the UK allow her to register our son as a British citizen prior to meeting the five-year residency requirement? Just thought I'd give it a shot ...

[JAJ]

Okay, so to become a naturalized citizen I would have to work and reside in Britain for five consecutive years, then file an application for UK citizenship? And, my son would become a British citizen as result of my successful naturalizaton. That seems too easy! Am I missing something?

Lastly, not to sound paranoid, but are there any specific reasons the British goverment might decide to deport us -- outside of being convicted of a crime, of course -- despite my wife having Indefinite Leave to Remain?

If you choose the U.K. domestic spouse visa route the pathway is as follows:

- after 2 years you apply for an obtain Indefinite Leave to Remain for your son
- after 5 years (including the first 2 years) you can become naturalised British (and register your son as British at the same time)
- your wife can also apply for naturalisation at the 5 year mark

If you choose the EEA migration route the timescale is:

- after 5 years you and your son become Permanent Residents (PR)
- your wife can naturalise as British at the 5 year mark (your son can be registered British at the same time as your wife)
- you can naturalise as British at the earlier of 12 months after obtaining PR, or as soon as your wife becomes a British citizen.

[JAJ]

"Non-British children with an EEA/Swiss parent may be registered as British once the parent becomes "settled" in the United Kingdom under the terms of the Immigration Regulations dealing with EEA citizens."

Not sure of the accuracy of this statement I found on Wikipedia about British nationality law. If this is true, however, would my Irish national wife's settled status in the UK allow her to register our son as a British citizen prior to meeting the five-year residency requirement? Just thought I'd give it a shot ...

That statement, which refers to section 1(3) of the British Nationality Act, deals only with children born in the United Kingdom, Isle of Man or Channel Islands.

Children born elsewhere normally need to have a parent who is a British citizen, or who is applying for British citizenship.

[rnc312]

Thanks very much! That was the side-by-side comparison I was seeking ...


Regarding the U.K. domestic spouse visa route:

If my wife will have the right to IRL given her Irish citizenship and my son obtains IRL after two years of residency in the U.K., where does that leave me? Will I need to apply for IRL or does being the spouse of an Irish national with settled status in the U.K. render that unnecessary?


Regarding the EEA migration route:

Okay, so realization of British citizenship will actually take six years for my son and I. Prior to the two of us obtaining permanent resident status will my son and I continue to have to right to remain in the U.K. as long as my wife holds employment? What could happen if my wife switches jobs or is unemployed for any particular amount of time? I mean, what guarantees do my son and I have as non-EEA nationals that we won't be forced to leave the country?

[rnc312]

Wait, so technically gaining British citizenship could actually take six years for my son and I? After meeting five years of residency we might have a year of waiting for our citizenship to be approved? Just wanted to clarify that.