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Application to Naturilisation Not Approved

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SureSir
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Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Dublin

Application to Naturilisation Not Approved

Post by SureSir » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:26 pm

Hi All,

I would like to know if any of you could myabe offer me some assistance or advise. :cry:

I am a IT Professional who came to Ireland on an IT Work Authorization on 08 June 2001. I applied for Irish Citizenship based on working 5 years in Ireland as a IT professional and my timelines of the application was as follows:

Applied: August 2006 based on 5 years residency and work permit.
Acknowledgement received October 2006.
Further below documents requested September 2009
1. A copy of your Notice of Assessment for last year 2008.
2. A copy of your current Tax Clearance Certificate.
3. A copy of your current Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) card.
Further documents submitted: October 2009

The other day I received a letter to inform me my application was not approved based on the reasons stated in the letter. I am of good character and always abide the law. I integrated well and have great Irish friends and a Irish girlfriend of almost 9 years. My long term plan is too live in Ireland and contribute positively to the growth of Ireland which I already do. Please allow me to explain the two incidents in the letter/reasons why I was not granted citizenship:

The first incident was a misunderstanding with me and the Gardai when a plain clothed Gardai grabbed me from behind as I was busy drawing money from an ATM and tried to searched me without identifying himself as Gairdai. I refused for him to search me as I thought it was one of my friends who asked this gentleman to prank me. I eventually resisted arrest as I did not allow the Gardai to search me as I am a law abiding citizen with respect for the law. I eventually went to court and the case was Strucked Out with no offense against me.

The second incident I was with my friend (an Irish born Citizen) at a concert at the RDS and my friend was smoking canabis (I was even unaware that he was smoking canabis) and the Gardai thought I smoked as well which I did not. He then took my details and I thought it was the end of the story. To my suprise in the letter from the minister it refered to the incident again. It states INCIDENT TYPE = Simple Possession. ROLE = Suspected offender. DETAILS = No subsequent action recorded pertaining to this incident.

I would never break the law as I knew what was in steak for me.



I would like to know if you could advise me and what my options can be i.e. Should I appeal and how can I go about to do it successfully etc. I went to the solicitors and below is the reply they gave me



Dear Mr XXXXXXX



I refer to your earlier email and note the content of the attached letter in which your application for Naturalisation as an Irish citizen was refused. I also note that we discussed your case at length on the phone yesterday for which you paid a consultation fee. As mentioned I advised you I would send a summary email relating to our consultation.

You were refused naturalisation based on the fact that you came to the adverse attention of the Gardai and the Minister is in fact entitled to exercise his discretion and can recommend that you should not be declared to be an Irish citizen. While it is true that you did come to the adverse attention of the Gardai on two occasions, you claim that you were neither charged or arrested and court proceedings against you for resisting arrest were struck out.

You claim that a plain clothes garda attempted to arrest you without identifying himself. You thought it was a prank. In fact you state that the Court was aware that this was a misunderstanding and that in fact the Garda who attempted to arrest you later became your friend and accepted the misunderstanding.

You later claim that in 2007 your friend was smoking marijuana and the gardai accused you of the same act. You claim that you were not smoking the drug and that you explained this to the Gardai. You have been listed as a suspected offender but no action was taken.

So in a nutshell, it seems that you did come to the attention of the Gardai but that you were never charged. You were not given the opportunity to address this issue and to give your side of the story or an explanation as to how events actually transpired. You want to appeal this decision.

I advised you that there is technically no appeal for Citizenship refusals. However an appeal of any decision can be made depending on the circumstances - for example if there was an error as to fact or details that the Minister based his decision on were incorrect etc. With your case, it appears that the Minister reached a conclusion without fully investigating the circumstances. I am afraid that this is normal and happens quite often. It is also very difficult to get leave to challenge such cases in court and the client certainly risks the possibility of a costs order going against them. There is also the issue that the Minister has a wide discretion in such cases.

I also advised you that if you wished to make a new application, you must be legally and continuously resident in Ireland for the year prior to submitting the application. One option is for you to reapply next year when you return to Ireland and have been continuously residing for one year. Alternatively we could attempt to address the reasons for which you were refused naturalisation. This may not have any impact on the Minister's decision and we would need to provide hard evidence to back up your case. We would also need to make a personal statement of events from you and a supporting affidavit. We would be asking the Minister to re-consider his decision however we may be advised to re-submit an application. In any case, by addressing the problems now, we may be assisting in any application for naturalisation that you may wish to make in the future.

Obviously it can be difficult to act as solicitor to someone who is not residing in the jurisdiction. Upon your instructions we may however make an appeal however I will need a copy of your file, documents, letters from any previous solicitors, letters to and from the Dept of Justice and Law Reform, references, Statement from the Gardai who assisted you, copy of any court orders (if you have these) a sworn Affidavit from you and a personal statement.

As mentioned we would expect that an initial payment of €900 plus VAT and outlay would be necessary in this matter. Upon your instructions we could open a file for you in the office and contact the dept in respect of appealing the decision refusing your application.

You might let me have your further instructions. For now I would like to thank you for contacting [redacted] and for your payment of €100 for a consultation fee.

Kind regards

Solicitor XXXX

fatty patty
Senior Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:25 pm
Location: Irlanda

Re: Application to Naturilisation Not Approved

Post by fatty patty » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:21 am

SureSir wrote:Hi All,

I would like to know if any of you could myabe offer me some assistance or advise. :cry:

I am a IT Professional who came to Ireland on an IT Work Authorization on 08 June 2001. I applied for Irish Citizenship based on working 5 years in Ireland as a IT professional and my timelines of the application was as follows:

Applied: August 2006 based on 5 years residency and work permit.
Acknowledgement received October 2006.
Further below documents requested September 2009
1. A copy of your Notice of Assessment for last year 2008.
2. A copy of your current Tax Clearance Certificate.
3. A copy of your current Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) card.
Further documents submitted: October 2009

The other day I received a letter to inform me my application was not approved based on the reasons stated in the letter. I am of good character and always abide the law. I integrated well and have great Irish friends and a Irish girlfriend of almost 9 years. My long term plan is too live in Ireland and contribute positively to the growth of Ireland which I already do. Please allow me to explain the two incidents in the letter/reasons why I was not granted citizenship:

The first incident was a misunderstanding with me and the Gardai when a plain clothed Gardai grabbed me from behind as I was busy drawing money from an ATM and tried to searched me without identifying himself as Gairdai. I refused for him to search me as I thought it was one of my friends who asked this gentleman to prank me. I eventually resisted arrest as I did not allow the Gardai to search me as I am a law abiding citizen with respect for the law. I eventually went to court and the case was Strucked Out with no offense against me.

The second incident I was with my friend (an Irish born Citizen) at a concert at the RDS and my friend was smoking canabis (I was even unaware that he was smoking canabis) and the Gardai thought I smoked as well which I did not. He then took my details and I thought it was the end of the story. To my suprise in the letter from the minister it refered to the incident again. It states INCIDENT TYPE = Simple Possession. ROLE = Suspected offender. DETAILS = No subsequent action recorded pertaining to this incident.

I would never break the law as I knew what was in steak for me.



I would like to know if you could advise me and what my options can be i.e. Should I appeal and how can I go about to do it successfully etc. I went to the solicitors and below is the reply they gave me



Dear Mr XXXXXXX



I refer to your earlier email and note the content of the attached letter in which your application for Naturalisation as an Irish citizen was refused. I also note that we discussed your case at length on the phone yesterday for which you paid a consultation fee. As mentioned I advised you I would send a summary email relating to our consultation.

You were refused naturalisation based on the fact that you came to the adverse attention of the Gardai and the Minister is in fact entitled to exercise his discretion and can recommend that you should not be declared to be an Irish citizen. While it is true that you did come to the adverse attention of the Gardai on two occasions, you claim that you were neither charged or arrested and court proceedings against you for resisting arrest were struck out.

You claim that a plain clothes garda attempted to arrest you without identifying himself. You thought it was a prank. In fact you state that the Court was aware that this was a misunderstanding and that in fact the Garda who attempted to arrest you later became your friend and accepted the misunderstanding.

You later claim that in 2007 your friend was smoking marijuana and the gardai accused you of the same act. You claim that you were not smoking the drug and that you explained this to the Gardai. You have been listed as a suspected offender but no action was taken.

So in a nutshell, it seems that you did come to the attention of the Gardai but that you were never charged. You were not given the opportunity to address this issue and to give your side of the story or an explanation as to how events actually transpired. You want to appeal this decision.

I advised you that there is technically no appeal for Citizenship refusals. However an appeal of any decision can be made depending on the circumstances - for example if there was an error as to fact or details that the Minister based his decision on were incorrect etc. With your case, it appears that the Minister reached a conclusion without fully investigating the circumstances. I am afraid that this is normal and happens quite often. It is also very difficult to get leave to challenge such cases in court and the client certainly risks the possibility of a costs order going against them. There is also the issue that the Minister has a wide discretion in such cases.

I also advised you that if you wished to make a new application, you must be legally and continuously resident in Ireland for the year prior to submitting the application. One option is for you to reapply next year when you return to Ireland and have been continuously residing for one year. Alternatively we could attempt to address the reasons for which you were refused naturalisation. This may not have any impact on the Minister's decision and we would need to provide hard evidence to back up your case. We would also need to make a personal statement of events from you and a supporting affidavit. We would be asking the Minister to re-consider his decision however we may be advised to re-submit an application. In any case, by addressing the problems now, we may be assisting in any application for naturalisation that you may wish to make in the future.

Obviously it can be difficult to act as solicitor to someone who is not residing in the jurisdiction. Upon your instructions we may however make an appeal however I will need a copy of your file, documents, letters from any previous solicitors, letters to and from the Dept of Justice and Law Reform, references, Statement from the Gardai who assisted you, copy of any court orders (if you have these) a sworn Affidavit from you and a personal statement.

As mentioned we would expect that an initial payment of €900 plus VAT and outlay would be necessary in this matter. Upon your instructions we could open a file for you in the office and contact the dept in respect of appealing the decision refusing your application.

You might let me have your further instructions. For now I would like to thank you for contacting Brophy Solicitors and for your payment of €100 for a consultation fee.

Kind regards

Solicitor XXXX
There are some cases where applicant came to attention of gardai and refused by INIS and then cases were gone to the court and settled/given hearing. Read below although case is different then yours but still....there is plenty others aswell.

http://www.courts.ie/__80256F2B00356A6B ... anguage_en~

Get a darn good solicitor who can backup all your claims (Brophy are fairly decent immigration solicitors so i have heard) nothing is guaranteed though.

9jeirean
Senior Member
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Post by 9jeirean » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:11 pm

Sorry to read about your case Suresir. Apologies if I sound negative, but isn't it the case that there's no room for appeal on naturalization application once a decision is made by the minister? You may however make a case to the court for a judicial review. Nothing is guaranteed though.

Irisheddy
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:55 pm
Location: DUBLIN

Post by Irisheddy » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:47 pm

It sounds like you have been extremely unlucky. They say truth is stranger than fiction but if i read your story in a novel I would think it was far fetched and unbelievable.

The plain clothes guard who wanted to search you without showing ID subsequently became your friend????

Don't get me wrong I do believe you but imagine how all of this must seem to an over zealous office clerk in the department of Justice. Secondly it is actually an offence to be in the company of someone who smokes cannabis although nobody is ever charged with it. The way it is you have come to the adverse attention of the guards even if it was undeserved. If an official wants to interpret the rules rigidly they can say there is no smoke without fire (No pun intended!) and you must be guilty of something.

Also bear in mind that these overworked overzealous officials only glance at the files without giving them the thorough examination they deserve. If they are in any doubt at all, they will be unsympathethic.

Legally and morally you have a case and deserve to win. Unfortunately life is not fair especially in Ireland. If you expect these same officials to admit that they are wrong you will have a long wait. If you have courage, perseverence and plenty of money then you will eventually win though.

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