Big Companies employing people without a "Valid" W

[TintinHerge]

Just want to see how people generally feel abt this scenario :

I know a few people who have got a Work Permit for 5 years from either their past company or through some other "sources". Now they dont work for the company thats stated in the Work Permit , which is illegal , right ? However , they have got jobs with other big Well-known companies who ask them if they have a valid Work Permit at joining and as long as they say Yes and provide a photo-copy of the Visa, they get the acceptance letter and start working.

Its clear that either these companies are un-aware of the rule that a Work Permit is not transferrable and each time someone changes jobs , a new work permit has to be applied for , OR they just dont care abt the rule. Also some of them might be confusing the rules with those of HSMP and WHM (which do alllow people to change jobs without re-applying).

This might affect job prospects of other people who are either British/EU citizens , on ILR , or on other Dependent visas.

Before I get any hate mails, I just want to state that I myself am an immigrant and have good friends who are using the system incorrectly - All I am curious to know is what people think abt this issue.I am also aware of the fact that given the nature of this board, the answers might be biased towards one end

Thanks in Advance
Tintin

[Chess]

It would be imposible getting ILR as they will need employer letters!!! ...from the company that obtained the WP


Yes - the system can be played but then you cant play it forever...

[John]

Tintin, the sort of companies you are talking about might be in for rather a shock ... when they start to be handed £2000 per employee fixed penalty notices for employing someone not legally entitled to work for them.

At present they are risking prosecution and a £5000 fine, but in reality prosecutions are rather rare. The new £2000 fixed penalty notices will change all that!

[basis]

tintin - Of course this is grossly wrong. In fact a less serious violation than the one you mentioned but much more prevalent is -

For IT companies the WP for their employees are normally issued for a specific project at a specific address. The rule has been since 2003 I think that if the employee is sent to a different project in the UK from the beginning or changes the project while in the UK then the WP needs to be amended accordingly and new FLR needs to be applied for. I am not sure whether that's still the case. But most big companies used to violate that because of ignorance. Specially the employees and their immediate managers are so ignorant of the immigration rules that there are such numeroud violations on everyday. In some ways complicated and cumbersome laws and rules are also responsible for that. The simpler the system the better compliance it earns.

And one very very common violation is work on business visas - which almost every company does in UK, Europe or the US. And very difficult to track down generally.

[TintinHerge]

Basis

I agree - but at least in those cases, they are still
a) doing IT work
b) for the same company

What gets my goat is people getting WPs on an IT criteria and then working as Admin/low-level finance/Data Entry , etc.

Chess - With so many Umbrella companies coming into play, its not difficult to subvert the ILR process too. Also, even if they cant get an ILR , they have already done the damage by working 4-5 years on an invalid WP anyway. ILR will be a bonus.

I agree with John - Companies need to be made aware of these rules and penalised if they dont comply. If people cant get jobs with the wrong WP, that will stop the abuse of the system

[tvt]

I guess these companies have not updated their recruitment practices. In the past it was enough for a company to show that you have a valid permanent National Insurance number to protect themselves against allegations of employing illegal immigrants. However, these rules were amended more than a year ago and today employers need to keep records of your passport and of your positive permission to work in the UK (copy of LTR showing no restriction to work / WP).

[amiexp]

It would be imposible getting ILR as they will need employer letters!!! ...from the company that obtained the WP


Yes - the system can be played but then you cant play it forever...

hi i am quite conused too because my mate got work permit from xcompany 4 years ago worked for company y without transfer of work permit and got ILR . dont the homeoffice find out the history of paying taxes throught NI number can any one solve this query its gettin interesting now

[gulgon]

Good case, I am not surprised. As the UK doesnt have a predictable and reliable immigration policy, they dont have an efficient control system as well. I had talked to someone who got student visa and worked officially 70 hours a week in a factory with payslip!!

One thing is also you shouldnt think too sophisticated and systematic in immigration issues in the UK, as the system is not that sophisticated and systematic here! Thats why you see such cases, and I see all these illegal immigrants making immigration laws tougher for skilled migrants.

one last thing; things sometimes happen here verbally not written (even the constitution is not written!). So if you dont proactively say something they dont care I guess...

[TintinHerge]

Tintin, the sort of companies you are talking about might be in for rather a shock ... when they start to be handed £2000 per employee fixed penalty notices for employing someone not legally entitled to work for them.

At present they are risking prosecution and a £5000 fine, but in reality prosecutions are rather rare. The new £2000 fixed penalty notices will change all that!

Maybe the IND or DWP should come up with an Anonymous tipping number/web page where people can complain against companies which break the law regularly.

[olisun]

the number is non anonymous but the person who is calling, his / her details are kept anonymous

[victim]

I believe in freedom of movement. The problem with the UK is that they are too strict and sometimes is so silly. They should allow a foreigner with qualifications to work in the UK.

I had the experience myself. When I found a company who is willing to do me a work permit, the UK work permit bodies rejected because my position was an account assistant. According to them, I should apply for jobs that the UK residents cannot do or shortage or professional.

I just graduated at the time from a UK university, common sense, I cannot suddenly secure a high score job. You need to start from the bottom and move up slowly.

UK govt should also based their decisions on the foreigners who are contributing taxes and not claiming from public funds. UK is really a great place to be but sometimes the unfairness is too much.

Before you start sticking your nose on foreigner way of life, you should first try to put yourself on their shoes. Really its not easy at all.

They are many good foreigners who are sincere and just honestly wants to work and when they do they really wrk very hard.

Government should abolish jobseekers allowances and reduce taxes a little.

[John]

I believe in freedom of movement. The problem with the UK is that they are too strict and sometimes is so silly. They should allow a foreigner with qualifications to work in the UK.

Hm .... in the year 1900 the UK's population was 10 million. Now it is 60 million. Using your formula they are probably hundreds of millions in your category of "foreigner with qualifications". There is actually a finite limit to the number of people that the UK could possibly support.

In short your idea is totally unworkable.

Government should abolish jobseekers allowances and reduce taxes a little.

Thankfully we in the UK are more enlightened than you. After all the UK has now abolished Unemployment Benefit. People do actually need to be seeking a job in order to get JSA. And I say, thank goodness for JSA!

[victim]

I believe job seekers allowance is a waste of money. I know a few people who are on jsa becaue they are too lazy to find jobs.
Plus other countries who does not apply jsa, the people are doing just fine.

If you still want jsa then UK Govt should at least have a body where people should register and have a list of employments and send those jobseekers or make arrangement for interview on their behalf. jsa only applies for 1 or 2 mths and not longer than that.

Jobseekers allowance is a waste of tax payers money. There are so many jobs - kfc, mcd, bus drivers, etc. avalaible but some people just thinking they are to good to being that and are very choosy.

Even though jsa is a good thing but many lazy people are taking advantage and that upsets me.

[Rogerio]

I believe job seekers allowance is a waste of money..

Even though jsa is a good thing ...

????

[VinLopez]

I believe job seekers allowance is a waste of money..

Even though jsa is a good thing ...

????

A good waste of money!

[mayana]

What do you expect from an immgration process that is bias, people will do all sort to get there ILR, settlement and earn a living etc. the issue here is some did it and get away with it while others did not succeed. To succeed( getting settlement) the choice is that of the individual either to follow the rules or not., I strongly believe in consistency, getting a work permit via company A and working for company B is not too good. Inconsistency does not last forever the ability to defend it will eventually fail some day no matter how long.

Mayana

[futuristic762000]

Some memebers bark back at other members condemming JSA; some members support the JSA.
Like any poilicy initiated, the JSA is good for the right reasons, which is also grossly abused by those who are eligible for it.
What about the unfair treatment melted out to foreigners who are really qualified for certain jobs, but are refused a chance to begin a career.
I am a foreigner, and i have a friend who is a British citizen, we both went for a test with with a employer, i got 87% while my friend scorded just 52% - guess what happend, i wasnt offered the job, but as for my friend he was offered....now what that does that say to those who can read inbetwen the lines....there is a systematic process to hinder the efforts of UK educated foreigners, the systems just wants your expensive tution fees, and then compenstate you with a one year SEGS visa of which most employers do not even recognise talk less of been aware of it.
So when we see people doing all tricks of the book to survive, dont blame them, blame the architects of the system - policy makers

[mayana]

Some memebers bark back at other members condemming JSA; some members support the JSA.
Like any poilicy initiated, the JSA is good for the right reasons, which is also grossly abused by those who are eligible for it.
What about the unfair treatment melted out to foreigners who are really qualified for certain jobs, but are refused a chance to begin a career.
I am a foreigner, and i have a friend who is a British citizen, we both went for a test with with a employer, i got 87% while my friend scorded just 52% - guess what happend, i wasnt offered the job, but as for my friend he was offered....now what that does that say to those who can read inbetwen the lines....there is a systematic process to hinder the efforts of UK educated foreigners, the systems just wants your expensive tution fees, and then compenstate you with a one year SEGS visa of which most employers do not even recognise talk less of been aware of it.
So when we see people doing all tricks of the book to survive, dont blame them, blame the architects of the system - policy makers

WP=Without Possible prosperity--except you know your way...
HSMP=Home office Strategic Manipulation of Professionals---except you...

Mayana

[sunnyday]

really?

Are you saying for most foreign students at UK universities who study towards a non-science/technical degree, the chances of them being employed is close to 0?