Counter Signature. Who can do it?

[abaracadabara]

An Ex pat living outside the UK for some years wishes to renew their UK passport. The only professional people they know are in the current country of residence.
Is it ever permissible for Counter signature to be non british.

The only other UK counter signatory options available for them are...

1. A UK resident who would not be of professional status.

2. A UK resident who has been a Youth Leader i.e Scouts Guides?

3. A UK resident who is a Professional person, and has know of the applicant for over 2 years, and can confirm the applicant is genuine/photo is a good likeness.

Despite note on the passport application, they are unable to find a list of approved Counter signatories on the UK Passport website.

[lemess]

The countersignatory has to have a valid British or Irish passport.

[ppron747]

Is this person in the UK? If he isn't, then he shouldn't be applying to the UKPS. He should contact his nearest British consulate for advice. The FCO website has contact details. IIRC, the passport application form requires the applicant to declare what country he is in, and it would not be a good idea to make a false declaration. Apart from minor considerations such as honesty, it is worth considering that a number of people posting here recently have had their passports applications being spot-checked, and spot-checking would be likely to reveal the truth...
If he is in UK this page on the UKPS website gives guidance on qualified countersignatories.
Guidance notes and application forms for overseas applicants can be downloaded from links on individual Embassy websites - the section on countersignatories differs from that for UK applicants, and permits non-British countersignatories if no British one can be found locally.
If all else fails, your friend might find that the UKPS could be persuaded to exercise some leniency over the countersignatory if he already holds a passport, and still bears a resemblance to the photograph in it.

[abaracadabara]

Thank you

The person is currently in the US, he does not know any person in the UK fitting any of the criteria set by the Passport office, but would be able to obtain one from The US , Doctor/bank manager or official./Apartment manager.

The only reference to suitable counter signature on the US web site , as far as I can see, is

"One of the photographs must be countersigned by the person who has also countersigned the application. A notary public is not acceptable as a countersignatory."

(http://www.britainusa.com/sections/arti ... 01&a=25298)[/url]

[John]

Maybe the person should read the notes that come with the passport application form :-

Note 8 – Section 10 – Countersignature

When you have completed the form, someone who has known you personally for at least two years should complete and sign Section 10. That person should be a British citizen, other British national or Commonwealth citizen who is a Member of Parliament, Justice of the Peace, Minister of Religion, Bank Officer, Established Civil Servant, or professionally qualified person, e.g. Lawyer, Engineer, Doctor, School Teacher, Police Officer or a person of similar standing. Procedures include a check on the authenticity of countersignatories.

If you do not know a British national or other Commonwealth citizen locally with these qualifications, a citizen of the country in which you are residing may complete and sign the form, provided he/she has a similar standing in that country has known you for two years and the Consul considers his/her signature to be acceptable. A member of your family should not countersign. (See also Note 10, ‘Photographs’). In certain cases you may be asked

[abaracadabara]

Thanks

No Notes were given by the Consul in the US, at the time of the passport application being given.?

UK notes and photograph advice documents have been adhered to during
filling the application, till section 10.

The notes you mention bear no resemblance to the UK advice notes, particulary the para...

"If you do not know a British national or other Commonwealth citizen locally with these qualifications, a citizen of the country in which you are residing may complete and sign the form, provided he/she has a similar standing in that country has known you for two years and the Consul considers his/her signature to be acceptable. A member of your family should not countersign. (See also Note 10, ‘Photographs’). In certain cases you may be asked"

I have tried to obtain a US advice document online, without success, where did you get that text?

[John]

The notes? Available online on the BritainUSA website ... by clicking here.

The relevant webpage is :-

Application Forms

[abaracadabara]

Thanks for that John

However this adds confusion Form - C1?

The C1 is totally different from the Forms given By the Consul in the US
and the identical form from the local british post office.

These forms Carry the Bold number to Left corner, 04, and form ref
top right corner SE/04/01 ?

So Do we have the right form? For a naturalzed US Citizen, Born in the
UK, re applying for a British Passport. (Lost or stolen passport form will accompany the application)

And the main question can Counter signature be done by a suitable US
Professional, ie. Doctor for either of the forms.

[John]

The C1 is totally different from the Forms given By the Consul in the US

I am baffled why a Consul in the US would be handing out a different form to the one on the BritainUSA website. I simply do not understand that.

.... and the identical form from the local british post office.

I don't think a form for use in the UK should be used. So given the application will be made in the States I would say that the form should be downloaded from the BritainUSA website and then completed and used.

can Counter signature be done by a suitable US Professional, ie. Doctor

As long as that Doctor can certify that he/she has known the person for at least two years .... certainly .. as it says in the notes downloadable from the BritainUSA website.

[ppron747]

I suspect the missing piece of the jigsaw is that the applicant was born on or before 2 September 1929, and is availing him/herself of the option of a gratis passport. These are all issued by the UKPS, and therefore take several weeks. For technical reasons only UK-style forms can be used for this.

See here and here. This is the only reason for completing a UK form outside the UK.

[John]

You are right Paul, I had not picked up on that aspect.

But the countersignatory .... a US Doctor still OK to countersign?

[ppron747]

....But the countersignatory .... a US Doctor still OK to countersign?

I would hope so, but I think a covering explanatory letter should be attached - the Washington office would certainly accept it for a passport that they're issuing themselves, judging by the guidance notes. But because this one is technically being authorised by the UKPS, it's not quite so straighforward.

But I'd go for it..... (Especially bearing in mind that it doesn't cost anything to have a go - even if a fee were payable in this instance, it would be refundable in the event of refusal, unlike visa fees )

[abaracadabara]

Thanks for useful updates.

As I understand it, application would be sent to washington, then transferered to UK for processing.

Would it do any harm to supplement applicants birth certificate by including.

1. UK Birth certificate of child showing applicant as father.

2. Letter from non professional person who has British Passport and
now resides in the UK, having known applicant in US for over 10 years.

[John]

Letter from non professional person

Can you be more specific? What is the occupation of the person?

[abaracadabara]

Retired unknown occupation, But definately does not fit any criteria for Countersigning, apart from known applicant for over 2 years/British passport holder-resident in uk. This would be a letter in addition to US doctor countersigning.

[ppron747]

Why not just ask the Passport Section in Washington? Our opinions are only opinions after all...

[abaracadabara]

Having found the applicants Marriage Certificate, will probably include that,
as they return supporting documents.

Many thanks

[patkins]

Regarding your question posted back in March as to whether a US professional could countersign in place of a UK professional on the 04 Gratis UK passport application, in cases such as you mentioned where only a US professional is known.... was it determined that the US prof was acceptable?

I've been trying to help my mother fill out the Gratis 04 UK application form for passport renewal (she was born in GB but has resided most of her adult life in the US) and has no current associations (either personal or professional) with a British or Irish passport holder here in the US. There are US professionals that she could have countersign, but none are Bristish passport holders as the 04 form states they must be.

We are stumped. I broke down and called the British Embassy in Washington DC ($2.49/minute) this morning, was directed to convey my credit card info which I did, was told I was being charged then listened to dead air for 30 seconds or so and was then hung up on. Quite frustrating.
I would have expected if they were officially closed that they would not have taken my credit card info. sigh.

anyway, I'm hoping your subsequent experience could be a guide for myself and my Mother.
regards,
patkins

[ppron747]

I suggest you try it. If the answer is no, you'll get your money back anyway. But I don't imagine that they will give you any difficulty...

[patkins]

I guess you're right, nothing to lose, but this is the 2nd go round. She had previously been sent the C1 application, filled it in, sent it off to Washington DC. It was returned to her 5 weeks later with a note that the incorrect application had been submitted for a 'Gratis' passport, and they enclosed the '04' application instructing her to use her U.S address in section 2 but no additional notes were included as to any leeway allowed regarding the countersignature being a U.S citizen.

Time will tell. If she is successful with the U.S citizen as counter signatory,
I'll update.