Tier 1 PSW Refused, Appeal Sent, Oral Hearing Scheduled

[yankeedoodle]

Hi guys,

Looking for some help/advice here.

I got the rejection letter for my Tier 1 Visa PSW on the "maintenance of funds section". I had the £800 in my account for 93 consecutive days. I included a bank statement giving evidence of this. However, I accessed the funds a couple weeks before I sent the visa off, so it dipped below the £800 mark for about 2 weeks on the bank statement. So what they did, is rather than doing October (start of funds/bank statement) to January, seeing the 93 days, they went from end of January (statement end) and worked backwards, thus leaving me about 2 weeks short of the 90 day required period.

So, I sent an appeal stating my grounds, hoping that they saw the err in their ways. I even included a copy of the UKBA visa guidelines and the direct page outlining that there "needs to be £800 in account for 90 days", not even stating a time period. Other people have told me it can't drop below £800 a month before, and even in this case, it only dropped a couple weeks before.

I guess what I'm asking is, will the hearing go in my favour or have I missed out on something? With the whole point of the exercise of having these funds to prove as financially stable, should I bring paylsips (been making £1400-£3000 a month for the past 9 months in a very good office job) to add to my case?

Help would be very great

Thanks

yankee

[arsenal49]

couple of suspicious thing, at least in my mind( don't take it the wrong way, as u need to cover all your basis!)

9 months? u sure you haven't taken up a 'permanent job'? because as a student, you are not suppose to!

its irrelevant what you are doing right now as judge needs to know if you satisfied all the requirements at the time you made application.

caseworkers guidance suggests that's what caseworkers should do. i.e work backwards!

but... in my opinion you can definitely argue that you had enough funds for 90 consecutive days, atleast, and prove you have always been on the right side of the law! and chances of you becoming reliant on public funds is next to none as you have currently x amount in your account.

HO would say they acted within the law/policy guidance to refuse your app so you must give enough reasons to the judge to show you will NEVER become reliant on public funds

cheers

[jason23]

I must agree... 9 months and that kind of money on a student visa( assuming you are switching from student visa) will look highly suspicious. You are best not mentioning that.
Remember the purpose of the £800 requirement is to prove maintenance. By dipping below the required amount, you have given them an opportunity to refuse your application which they have gladly taken.
All that said, I believe you can win this appeal simply because you have ticked every box mentioned on the UKBA PSW policy guidance. Good luck.

[Greenie]

I am not sure why you are so suprised that they looked at your account from the closing balance. It is made clear in the policy that this is what they do. (see paragraph 100 of the PSW Policy Guidance

I agree with others though that you should seek to rely on the actual rules which only state that you need the funds on the day of the application and on a consecutive 90 day period ending no more than one month before hand. You also need to refer to the Pankina judgement which confirms that the policy guidance is not the law. You should also provide evidence that you had £800 on the day of the application also.

However I would also advise caution regarding your earnings.

When did your stop studying? How many hours were you working during your studies? Even taking the minimum amount of £1400 this is quite a lot to earn when you can only work for 20 hours per week. Is this net pay or gross pay?

Bear in mind that the rules also say

I f the funds were obtained when the applicant was in the UK, the funds must have been obtained while the applicant had valid leave and was not acting in breach of any conditions attached to that leave

[yankeedoodle]

Guys, thanks very much for the replies, very much appreciated.

I finished studying in June 2010, and my student visa is quite rare in the fact that they gave me until January 2011 until it expired. I asked my visa advisory council at uni, my boss confirmed with ukba and english courts that I would be eligible to work 40 hours a week during the period before PSW and leave of university. This was all confirmed okay and legit. Of course, while I was a student, I did not exceed the 20 hour a week maximum.

I wish I knew regarding that paragraph 100! Its pretty rediclouls, especially considering I provided an online statement where I could change which date it closed on...

In addition, I did not have £800 on the day of the application.. I was only made aware of the "consecutive 90 day period ending no more than one month before hand". Sure the "no more than a month before application date" fraction of that rule implies that you would not need the £800 on the day of application, other than the £550 required to process it...

Kind of worried now...

[geriatrix]

I finished studying in June 2010, and my student visa is quite rare in the fact that they gave me until January 2011 until it expired. I asked my visa advisory council at uni, my boss confirmed with ukba and english courts that I would be eligible to work 40 hours a week during the period before PSW and leave of university. This was all confirmed okay and legit. Of course, while I was a student, I did not exceed the 20 hour a week maximum.

UKBA seems to suggest something different.

If you have completed your course and you apply to remain in the UK under the points-based system before your existing permission to stay expires, you can work full-time (within the above limits) until your application is decided.

You stopped studying in June 2010 but submitted your application in (end of) January 2011? Hope the confirmation you received on the matter - working 40 hours is okay and legit - was in writing.

[Greenie]

Did the end date of your course change? 7 months is a long time to have after the end of your course. I would usually advise someone to apply within 4 months of completing studies rather than wait for the whole 7 months.

That aside, the rules do state that the funds have to be available on the date of the application in addition to the 90 day period.

The reason why they say that the 90 day period can end no more than a month before the date of the application is because they know that it would be difficult for someone to provide more recent evidence of the funds. However the rules also state that the funds must also be available on the date of the application.

See 1A(a) of Appendix C of the Immigration Rules:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... appendixc/


"The applicant must have the funds specified in the relevant part of Appendix C at the date of the application";

[Greenie]

I finished studying in June 2010, and my student visa is quite rare in the fact that they gave me until January 2011 until it expired. I asked my visa advisory council at uni, my boss confirmed with ukba and english courts that I would be eligible to work 40 hours a week during the period before PSW and leave of university. This was all confirmed okay and legit. Of course, while I was a student, I did not exceed the 20 hour a week maximum.

UKBA seems to suggest something different.

If you have completed your course and you apply to remain in the UK under the points-based system before your existing permission to stay expires, you can work full-time (within the above limits) until your application is decided.

You stopped studying in June 2010 but submitted your application in (end of) January 2011? Hope the confirmation you received on the matter - working 40 hours is okay and legit - was in writing.

I am not sure that the UKBA guidance says anything different? Once a student has completed the course, it is no longer 'term time' for them therefore they can work full time. Usually the maximum time a student should have at the end of his course is 4 months. Often this is different because the sponsor put for example the date of graduation or the date of the results as the end date, which is incorrect. In other cases is is because the course finishes earlier for some other reason.

My concern though is the fact that the OP's course ended earlier than expected and therefore the OP, to be on the safe side, would have been better advised to apply for PSW within 4 months of completing the course rather than spending a significant period in the country without studying. Having said that it does not appear that UKBA have either picked up on this, or that they are converned about it.

Whether the OP meets the requirements of the rules is another matter.

[arsenal49]

if the course ends earlier, than ukba might curtail the visa... but if they didnt, i dont know how they can punish the applicant for their (ukba's) own over-sight

if you have a written confirmation, problem solved. if you dont, then get a statement from as many individuals as possible regarding you working 40 hrs a week while on student visa.

might come handy in the court!

[Aryan2013]

I think onus is on student to inform UKBA, if their course finishes early!!

Anyway, I think this is academic because OP does not have £800/- on the day of application, end of the story.

[ash786]

Hi guys,

Looking for some help/advice here.

I got the rejection letter for my Tier 1 Visa PSW on the "maintenance of funds section". I had the £800 in my account for 93 consecutive days. I included a bank statement giving evidence of this. However, I accessed the funds a couple weeks before I sent the visa off, so it dipped below the £800 mark for about 2 weeks on the bank statement. So what they did, is rather than doing October (start of funds/bank statement) to January, seeing the 93 days, they went from end of January (statement end) and worked backwards, thus leaving me about 2 weeks short of the 90 day required period.

So, I sent an appeal stating my grounds, hoping that they saw the err in their ways. I even included a copy of the UKBA visa guidelines and the direct page outlining that there "needs to be £800 in account for 90 days", not even stating a time period. Other people have told me it can't drop below £800 a month before, and even in this case, it only dropped a couple weeks before.

I guess what I'm asking is, will the hearing go in my favour or have I missed out on something? With the whole point of the exercise of having these funds to prove as financially stable, should I bring paylsips (been making £1400-£3000 a month for the past 9 months in a very good office job) to add to my case?

Help would be very great

Thanks

yankee

1. Your application was refused on valid grounds as u did not have the required amount.
2. The guidence clearly states that the most recent statement should not be more than 1 month old at the time of the application.
3. Others has already cleared about the caseworkers calculation of the 90 days which is the general guidence.
4. I will be very surprised to see if you win this appeal unless u can show that u had the required amount on the date of the application.

[geriatrix]

I am not sure that the UKBA seems to suggest something different.

AIUI, a vacation is one when you are in the midst of (on-going, not yet completed) educational programs but are off-term with no tutorials being undertaken / conducted. Not sure if time spent after completing a course can be termed as a "vacation". But that's just my interpretation of "vacation", in context.

As per Tier 4 policy guidance, one cannot work-full time after completing of course unless he/she has submitted a leave to remain application.

262. If a student, having completed his/her course, makes an application for leave under the Points Based System before his/her existing leave expires, he/she will be permitted to work full-time, within the limits described above, until his/her application is decided.

There wouldn't be a need for such a statement if UKBA were to take the view that a student could work full-time in the time period between completion of course and expiry of visa.

IMHO ...

[Greenie]

I am not sure that the UKBA seems to suggest something different.

AIUI, a vacation is one when you are in the midst of (on-going, not yet completed) educational programs but are off-term with no tutorials being undertaken / conducted. Not sure if time spent after completing a course can be termed as a "vacation". But that's just my interpretation of "vacation", in context.

As per Tier 4 policy guidance, one cannot work-full time after completing of course unless he/she has submitted a leave to remain application.

262. If a student, having completed his/her course, makes an application for leave under the Points Based System before his/her existing leave expires, he/she will be permitted to work full-time, within the limits described above, until his/her application is decided.

There wouldn't be a need for such a statement if UKBA were to take the view that a student could work full-time in the time period between completion of course and expiry of visa.

IMHO ...

Please see Comprehensive Guidance for Employers on Preventing Illegal Working

You can employ a student who is undertaking
a course of degree level study or above, or a
foundation degree course:
for up to 20 hours per week only during term
time; or
full-time only outside of their term time i.e.
during vacations and following completion of
their course; and
they must still have valid leave.

Also see working with student immigration permission when studies have ended

If you have immigration permission that extends for up to four months beyond the end of your studies, you can work full-time for that extra period once you have completed all your studies

the quote from the tier 4 policy guidance merely confirms that if a tier 4 general student applies for further leave to remain under psw (or another category) before his tier 4 leave expires, he retains the right to work full time whilst his application is under consideration. Term time relates to when the student is studying. if the student has finished studying it is no longer term time for him or her.

[geriatrix]

Thanks for the links and info. I stand corrected.

[yankeedoodle]

Hi guys,

Looking for some help/advice here.

I got the rejection letter for my Tier 1 Visa PSW on the "maintenance of funds section". I had the £800 in my account for 93 consecutive days. I included a bank statement giving evidence of this. However, I accessed the funds a couple weeks before I sent the visa off, so it dipped below the £800 mark for about 2 weeks on the bank statement. So what they did, is rather than doing October (start of funds/bank statement) to January, seeing the 93 days, they went from end of January (statement end) and worked backwards, thus leaving me about 2 weeks short of the 90 day required period.

So, I sent an appeal stating my grounds, hoping that they saw the err in their ways. I even included a copy of the UKBA visa guidelines and the direct page outlining that there "needs to be £800 in account for 90 days", not even stating a time period. Other people have told me it can't drop below £800 a month before, and even in this case, it only dropped a couple weeks before.

I guess what I'm asking is, will the hearing go in my favour or have I missed out on something? With the whole point of the exercise of having these funds to prove as financially stable, should I bring paylsips (been making £1400-£3000 a month for the past 9 months in a very good office job) to add to my case?

Help would be very great

Thanks

yankee

1. Your application was refused on valid grounds as u did not have the required amount.
2. The guidence clearly states that the most recent statement should not be more than 1 month old at the time of the application.
3. Others has already cleared about the caseworkers calculation of the 90 days which is the general guidence.
4. I will be very surprised to see if you win this appeal unless u can show that u had the required amount on the date of the application.

So, the most recent statement should be no more than a month old?

And what's also been said is you must have £800 in the account at the date of application?

So essentially, by myself providing a bank statement showing the Oct 12-January 17 (£800) and choosing oct 12-jan 31 as the e-statement, I have provided them valid grounds. In reality, if I chose oct 12-jan 17 as the dates, coupled with my Visa application date on January 31, I would have beat the system.

So all in all, a couple clicks on a natwest dropdown menu have denied the right to live here? seriously, seems rather beauraucratic to make a refusal on these grounds. I mean, how lenient are the judges in repsect these sorts of things? A friend of mine had the £800 dip below for a couple days, and she still ended up being accepted as shed found a partner, unmarried albeit and had a kid.

[coco__nutty]

Hi guys,

So all in all, a couple clicks on a natwest dropdown menu have denied the right to live here? seriously, seems rather beauraucratic to make a refusal on these grounds. I mean, how lenient are the judges in repsect these sorts of things? A friend of mine had the £800 dip below for a couple days, and she still ended up being accepted as shed found a partner, unmarried albeit and had a kid.

My 5 pence is that you have grounds for a appeal and a chance to be granted it.
It is now, however, up to the judge to decide.

It's a good thing you went for the 'Oral Appeal' option and can therefore present your case, I'd suggest you be humble and respectful, but when given a chance say that despite going under required £800, you have means to support yourself. Perhaps, if relevant, provide with bank statements showing that you had excess of £800 for a long period of time prior to October etc.... They might say it isn't appropriate but they will look at it and might sway the judge's decision!


I would hold off on your bank statements... eventhough TECHNICALLY you can work while you are on leave from studying, you should have applied for your visa much sooner than just now. So don't give them any right to question your earnings and activities since finishing studies.

Good Luck!

P.S.
I won my appeal early last month, TECHNICALLY I had no grounds (my bank statements were not translated from Dutch), but the judge decided that I showed honesty and good faith so decided in my favor. So don't give up!

[yankeedoodle]

Thanks coco-nutty! I'll be humble and professional. Going to look at some law movies and prepare some speeches.. haha. I've accepted my fate either way, but I'm going to try and remain here, hate having to wait about 23 days before I find out thought! Do you find out instantly?

[coco__nutty]

Thanks coco-nutty! I'll be humble and professional. Going to look at some law movies and prepare some speeches.. haha. I've accepted my fate either way, but I'm going to try and remain here, hate having to wait about 23 days before I find out thought! Do you find out instantly?

No, at the end of my hearing she just said I'll get the decision mailed to me in 2 weeks... a friend of mine who's been through the same process (but for different Tier) said it took over a month for her to find out so I was very surprized when mine came in just 2 weeks later! And it's a loooooong winded letter, explaining what hapenned etc.etc. and why she decided what she did and the last statement was Appeal Allowed!

So skip right to the end when you get yours!

If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality?..

[yankeedoodle]

2 weeks wow. Least it gives me some extra time in country worst comes to worst. Well going to hope for the best! I'm American btw, clue is in the name

[coco__nutty]

2 weeks wow. Least it gives me some extra time in country worst comes to worst. Well going to hope for the best! I'm American btw, clue is in the name

I thought as much but you just never know

Well, IF you don't win your appeal, you might be able to appeal again to Upper Tribunal...
But let's hope it doesn't come to that!!

[yankeedoodle]

Couple last questions:

1) On the appeal I said it would be just myself in court. Is it too late to get a lawyer?

2) Can I bring letters from the director of my company saying "He's a great employee, being promoted, financially stable, etc..."

[arsenal49]

Couple last questions:



2) Can I bring letters from the director of my company saying "He's a great employee, being promoted, financially stable, etc..."

could come handy if judge wants to ascertain how likely it is that you will resort to public funds in near future!

[yankeedoodle]

Okay cool!

[yankeedoodle]

Okay so I had the hearing, went extremely well. The judge gave a decision there and then:

1. "The appeal under the Immigration Rules is dismissed"
2. "The appeal is allow on human rights grounds"

The on May 13 I was sent a letter stating exactly what the judge had said in court. The letter says each party has 5 days to appeal this decision. Does this mean in a short while I'll be getting another letter stating the OFFICIAL decision?

[yankeedoodle]

bump^