De Facto Relationship Query

[robbie123]

Hi,

I'd like to ask a few questions on a de facto relationship application.

At the end of June I will be in a relationship with my partner (Brazilian) for 2 years and we'd like to apply for de facto status. His student visa will expire in mid July (after 3 years, and so is unlikely to be extended any further).

Q1: Is it acceptable to apply for de facto status prior to the 2 years (e.g. send the application in May).
Q2: If the assessment process runs past his student visa deadline, is there a way for him to extend his visa while awaiting a decision?

Any information or tips would be really gratefully received,
Thanks,
Rob

[walrusgumble]

Hi,

I'd like to ask a few questions on a de facto relationship application.

At the end of June I will be in a relationship with my partner (Brazilian) for 2 years and we'd like to apply for de facto status. His student visa will expire in mid July (after 3 years, and so is unlikely to be extended any further).

Q1: Is it acceptable to apply for de facto status prior to the 2 years (e.g. send the application in May).
Q2: If the assessment process runs past his student visa deadline, is there a way for him to extend his visa while awaiting a decision?

Any information or tips would be really gratefully received,
Thanks,
Rob

Apply before 2 years? No, it would actually be met by the department with extreme spectism to be honest. You have no business applying until you can substanitally provide documentary evidence of your relationship for these periods.

I thought it was 3 years anyway?

[zafarzafar80]

Is it acceptable to apply for de facto status prior to the 2 years (e.g. send the application in May).

Answer: NO, if u r Irish citizen the relationship should last at least 2 years prior to proceed with the application and if u r from rest of the EU member states the relationship should last 4 years. So don't make a mistake to apply before 2 years, ur application would be refused.

[/quote] If the assessment process runs past his student visa deadline, is there a way for him to extend his visa while awaiting a decision?

The new law for student would effect the people who are living in Ireland more than 7 years. u mentioned that ur bf is here 3 years now, so he can extend his student visa as usual by taking admission in a good course. and later this year u can apply for defacto but make sure support ur defacto application by as much as possible ways. like joint bank statment, utility bills, landlord letter, reference from mutual friends, picture, holidays booking, etc etc

[robbie123]

Thanks for that,

I was also wondering, is co-habitation a necessary requirement to be granted de facto status?

The reason for this question is we have cohabited from almost the start of the relationship, but it's a little difficult to prove as the mortgage and bills have remained in my name for a long time after the start of the relationship.

thanks,

[walrusgumble]

Thanks for that,

I was also wondering, is co-habitation a necessary requirement to be granted de facto status?

The reason for this question is we have cohabited from almost the start of the relationship, but it's a little difficult to prove as the mortgage and bills have remained in my name for a long time after the start of the relationship.

thanks,

of course it is . if you you married you would be expected, for most part, live together. de facto family means that you are act like a married couple.different story if ye had a child but couple are separated.what about utility bills,joint bank a/c,joint health insurance etc?

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Does the OP have evidence of joint finances with partner? Personally I would recommend applying now, giving plenty of time before the student visa expires. Put in photographs, statements from your family and friends, and a declaration from each of you as to the relationship history. Joint finances would be useful. These cases are discretionary, as I understand it there is a degree of flexibility as to the time you have actually lived together.

[robbie123]

thanks for the reply,
I've heard of people applying a few weeks before their 2 year anniversary and being successful so what you say backs that up. I'll just not be too early, maybe a couple of weeks.

We have joint finances for the last few months, plenty of holiday photos (with him and his family) that go back about 1.5 years... can also get letters of support from friends and family. I guess he has official letters from work/school that are addressed to our current address that go back a long way. To establish the start of our relationship, all I can really offer as solid proof is mobile phone bills listing his number... hope that will be sufficient.

I'm racking my brain to figure out what OP means, but nothing comes to mind, can you clarify that please?

Thanks,

[robbie123]

thanks Walrusgumble,

we now have joint bank account, utility bills and health insurance, but only since the start of 2011...

we have lots of photographs showing us on holidays in Brazil and other places that date back a long way... I could also show flight bookings paid for from my card, but for him... maybe that would help. As I said in another post, it will be no problem to get numerous letters from family/friends to testify to our relationship. If there is anything I'm missing, I'd appreciate a pointer...

Thanks everyone,

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Proof of address for him - going back as far as possible is the main thing they'll be looking for. Would he have gone to a doctor or dentist back when he started living with you and gave your address? Anything at all with his name and address on it will help - even if it is gym membership, tesco clubcard, anything! Also what about an affidavit from you?

[robbie123]

A sworn affidavit from me sounds like a good idea... I'll look into having that drawn up. Not sure about dentist/doctor things.. maybe. Again, will have to dig into that and hopefully come up with something.

One thing on my mind is that, to all intents and purposes, he lived here from around Sept/Oct 2009 even though he had rented accomodation nearby which he very rarely used. Then he moved in completely in Dec 2009. As regards proof of him living here before that, I don't know yet. The relationship could be traced back to end June 2009 using mobile phone bills.

As I said in a previous post, we need to apply for de facto status as early as possible (due to his student visa expiry in mid-July). This was the reason for my question about cohabiting. Yes, we've cohabited for the bulk of our relationship, but we've not cohabited for the full 2 years (I'd say we've cohabited for 1 yr 9 months approx). Is this something I need to worry about?

Would it be helpful if his previous landlady could draft something to say that, yes he rented a room from her, but that he never ever stayed the night there?

Thanks,

[ImmigrationLawyer]

No I don't think that would really help. Just have in your statement/ affidavit the first date he really moved in. You should aim for at least 10 proof of address documents. They really look for a high level of documentation for these applications.

[robbie123]

ok, thanks - will drop the idea of landlady letter (not sure if she'd do it anyway).

You say I should just put the first date of move in into the sworn affidavit... do you reckon I should go with when he effectively moved in.. i.e. Sept 2009, or the later date when he moved all his things from the rented accommodation (Dec 2009). Also, do you believe the fact that both of these dates are less than 2 years ago could jeopardise things?

I'm sure we can come up with at least 10 proof of address docs spread over the last 1-1.5 years.... the initial period is the difficulty

Thanks,..

[ImmigrationLawyer]

I don't know about the date to be used (when he moved in) that's up to you! I don't think applying too early can prejudice you. The worst they can say is come back later!

[walrusgumble]

Does the OP have evidence of joint finances with partner? Personally I would recommend applying now, giving plenty of time before the student visa expires. Put in photographs, statements from your family and friends, and a declaration from each of you as to the relationship history. Joint finances would be useful. These cases are discretionary, as I understand it there is a degree of flexibility as to the time you have actually lived together.

jesus h christ. the requirements are 3 or 4 full years before making the application.if op does what you suggest, it will not be considered.i really hope you read instructions when working electronics etc.yes you are right there is time flexibility eg serious joint financial commitments or child. but there is nothing given by op to merit it,yet.it would be a joke to the institution of marriage.ireland is only recognising de facto only recently. op should hang on and strengthen their case

[ImmigrationLawyer]

With respect to you WG, I understand you're not working in the Dept of Justice any more - and certianly not in this section of INIS, so how would you know what their attitude will be? You should take advice from people on this forum who have personal experience of the system - either acting for themselves or on behalf of others. Most people know not to believe everything written on the INIS website!

[walrusgumble]

With respect to you WG, I understand you're not working in the Dept of Justice any more - and certianly not in this section of INIS, so how would you know what their attitude will be? You should take advice from people on this forum who have personal experience of the system - either acting for themselves or on behalf of others. Most people know not to believe everything written on the INIS website!

Seeing you are a lawyer (Yes lawyer can mean anything, here it would suggest barrister or solicitor), sure wouldn't it be in your interest to wrongly advise them to make an application anyway (open more files and clients, and get money even if cases are sH*te. You one of those who promise the sun, moon statrs?0 sure you get paid either way? I suppose you would advise to send in citizenship applications 4 months before the statutory eligibilty date too? You are definitely not a practising lawyer if you are asking that question. Even you confirmed that it would not be wise to make the application yet.

The position was not as much as 2-3 years ago, it would be no different now. Yes I worked in the Department, but you would swear that one either had no friends remaining there or lost contact / cut off ties with people in the INIS. I have it on good authority this information.

I have yet to see anyone on this thread say, "yes, i made the application with 1-2 months short of the date and I still got a postive decision". So by all means, until someone does come with their personal experience to show the contray, i have said nothing inaccurate. So stop second guessing will you. This is not the first time that I have pulled you up on things like this.

The department of justice is extremely sceptical of "de facto relationships" for immigration purpsoses. THen there is also the issue of the Constitutional and traditional recongition, or lack thereof, non married couples. Unlike marriage the de facto will have to produced substantial amount of documentary evidence (you know this). Its not enough to say they are mere boyfriend - girlfriend, or long term couple. THis is why a lenghty period of time is required in the first place (2 years or 4 years)

The department are doing their damnedest to refuse to recongise MARRIED couples and Irish Citizen Children, what makes you think that they will take such an approach to de facto couples. Granted, the department would be more lenient to Irish couples, but its not worth the applicant's while to make an application until they have at least proper history. Even I am sure you will agree.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

have yet to see anyone on this thread say, "yes, i made the application with 1-2 months short of the date and I still got a postive decision".

Well now you have!!! I have done this and the application was successful.

[walrusgumble]

have yet to see anyone on this thread say, "yes, i made the application with 1-2 months short of the date and I still got a postive decision".

Well now you have!!! I have done this and the application was successful.

well done!

how did you manage that? assuming (please correct me) you were a non eu person or an irish person, had you provided serious amount of documentary evidence of the relationship? had ye children? joint finacial commitments such as mortgages? did you have legal status in this state already? how old was the relationship?solid finances - self sufficiency? did ye live in another country before ireland? assistance with a politican?, (i won't say good lawyer, obviously they are, but the inis would nearly say no quicker out of spite as oppose to a couple making the application themselves - for fear of more applications) and more importantly, what country was the non eu person from? (there is or at least was a more liberl attitude in the department towards say, aussie's, americans etc than say someone from other countries, who may need visas

the point of asking the questions is that, as you know, these applications are discretionary (or whatever mood the civil servants have on the day) its really arbitary and if one person gets it, it often does not always mean the other couple, with similar circumstances will get it.

i remember helping a friend of a friend with an application,once. it was an irish person. i think the non eu person's immigration was dodgy . they married after only knowing each other for about 6 months-1 year. her parents were not impressed , thats a different stry. to my surprise they got it.( i think they knew a politican as well so i won't take credit) yet, another case, my cousins mate (irish),married a non eu after a 2 year relationship. the non eu person had, for a while been legal but it expired, she was here for about 4 years. they got refused!

if married couples have such problems, surely it is harder for non married couples, in light of the departments defensive tool ie non constitutional recognition of de facto relationships


if i was in op's shoe's i would have been worried that they would say no to considering an application if premature, nd reply, oh, since your student visa is expiring on x, please provide evidence of renewal or you leaving the state by that date. at least if the student becomes "illegal" department won't be monitoring by date of application. but, after re-reading, they do have good stuff to work on as it is.

[walrusgumble]

thanks Walrusgumble,

we now have joint bank account, utility bills and health insurance, but only since the start of 2011...

we have lots of photographs showing us on holidays in Brazil and other places that date back a long way... I could also show flight bookings paid for from my card, but for him... maybe that would help. As I said in another post, it will be no problem to get numerous letters from family/friends to testify to our relationship. If there is anything I'm missing, I'd appreciate a pointer...

Thanks everyone,

that is pretty good stuff as it is. solid financial committment ie buying flights, travelling over to their country. as much as possible, any thing to prove relationship

[Jellybeans]

Hi I was wondering if there were any updates about how strict the rules are about the length of time you are in a relationship for when applying for defacto relationships visa? I am with my boyfriend over a year and wanted to apply for a visa, we are thinking of applying before his student visa runs out but it will be less than 2 years. We are planning on getting married but not for another year or two, also we intend leaving Ireland at the end of 2012. Can we apply for defacto if we are not living together presently? also is it imperative we are together 2 years when applying for the visa? I am Irish by the way and he is non EEA. I saw the last post was ages ago and wondered did anyone have any current experiences...thanks

[highstoolhero]

According to INIS website, the requirement is "Evidence of relationship of at least 4 years duration".

[deJour]

Non-EEA nationals who are in de facto relationships must have permission to remain in the State as follows:
A non-EEA national whose partner is an Irish national must provide proof of a durable relationship of at least 2 years. If the non-EEA national is granted permission to remain they are not required to have a work permit.
If you are a non-EEA national whose partner is an EU national you can apply for a residence card if you have proof of a durable relationship of at least 2 years. If you are granted permission to remain you will not need a work permit.
A non-EEA national whose partner is also a non-EEA national must provide evidence of a durable relationship of at least 4 years and must have an employment permit in order to work.

source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... eland.html