urgent advise needed pls refus EE2 extended family member

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:54 pm

hi all , i ve been following this forum for a while now , please i need advice , urgently
i applied as a family extended member twice and refused ,
the first application was 2010 with coa with right to work , refused after 5 month ,
i did paper appeal , with all the required document , western unions , my case was dismissed , and was given permission to apply to upper tribunal , it was dismissed again .
now i file in 2 nd application to HO december
, i was still given right to work but now today i got a refuasl lettter stating that i did not submit up to date western unions tranfers . be fore my arrival to uk , which i did submit ,
ve been given right to appeal or to submit the necessary document for furthe consideration
please great people of this forum what do u think i should do , cos is very obsvious HO dont want to issue me RC cos am a overstayer , because my relationship with brother is geniue , i submitted our family pictures both back home and here ,
my school documents
my parents old marrige certificate,
births certificates
so much more .
i dont no what to do , i ve 6 days left to appeal
please advice needed

DFDS. · Post by **DFDS.** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:35 pm

What does the original refusal letter say, may be we can begin from there. Also what kind of ducuments did you submit?

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:48 pm

thanks you for your response .
in the first refusal letter , i was told if i was really my brother sister , i woud ve come with a family permit . but instead i came the way i did .
and also i did not should submit up to my arrival western unions that indicate i was finanancially dependent on my brother . and also it state my EEA relative is self employed .
.

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:59 pm

i submitted my education documents . .
my school certificates .
me and my brother with our parents , family pictures , both back home in africa and uk .
employment documents .
but i was refused
on the second application . i submitted up to my arrival into uk , western unions slips
school certificates ,
my brother self employment
our parents birth and marriage certificates , pictures .
my job pay slips which i got thr coa issued
my education progress courses , which is still on going
. i

Post by **Obie** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:25 pm

Why was the appeal refused the first time round? And have you addressed those issues.
The caselaws have advance significantly in ways that is not reflected in UKBA guidance or decisions. There has also been a reference to the European court of justice. Therefore either your appeal will be allowed if you can submit the documents they alledge you hadn't , or a decision will be stayed, pending the reply to the preliminary reference

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:41 pm

thanks for the response
in the first appeal , my lawyer choose the oral appeal , but few days to the appeal my brothers fell sick , and we opt for paper appeal instead . and submitted the up to date western unions they requested for . the tribuanl dismissed the appeal cos we didnt show up at court becos we opt to paper appeal , and the tribunal give me application to apply to upper tribunal , which we did , and we stated we appear for the oral this thing since my brother is o.k , but the upper tribunal dismissed it . and stated that my western unions pay slips are not up to the day i arrive in uk . am amaze . cos i got a western unions slip that shows my brother sent me money 2 months before i arrive uk .
i feel HO is doing cos of my overstayed , please great people i need ur good advice

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:42 pm

thanks for the response
in the first appeal , my lawyer choose the oral appeal , but few days to the appeal my brothers fell sick , and we opt for paper appeal instead . and submitted the up to date western unions they requested for . the tribuanl dismissed the appeal cos we didnt show up at court becos we opt to paper appeal , and the tribunal give me application to apply to upper tribunal , which we did , and we stated we appear for the oral this thing since my brother is o.k , but the upper tribunal dismissed it . and stated that my western unions pay slips are not up to the day i arrive in uk . am amaze . cos i got a western unions slip that shows my brother sent me money 2 months before i arrive uk .
i feel HO is doing cos of my overstayed , please great people i need ur good advice

Post by **Obie** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:07 pm

Lapsed dependancy or membership of the household for 2 months should not merit a refusal. I believe you should refer to SM INDIA. Appealing is the best option and make sure you and your brother show up this time. The reason for refusal on paper does not make sense anyway. I wish you all the best. Try and send the papers before the six days is up. Don't waste time. In my opinion, the appeal is better and quicker than the reconsideration.

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:29 am

thanks so much for your replys
can i apply for reconsiderations to HO and at the same time appeal to tribunal ? . and also what case law is appropriate to my case that can help in my appeal .
what is sm india ? is is relevant to my case

DFDS. · Post by **DFDS.** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:58 am

tracy56 wrote:thanks you for your response .
in the first refusal letter , i was told if i was really my brother sister , i woud ve come with a family permit . but instead i came the way i did .
and also i did not should submit up to my arrival western unions that indicate i was finanancially dependent on my brother . and also it state my EEA relative is self employed .
.

Am not so sure, but to me non of the reasons given in the refusal leter, does hold water under the EEA law. Especially the issue of a family permit. It should'nt a basis for refusal of the rc. Under the case work's guidance, its no were indicated that a familly permit is one of the requirements for the rc. About the western Union reciepts being valid or whatever, i believe there are several ways you can prove dependancy before comming to Uk, as long as its not that much lapsed as Obie states it. Did have any recent membership of household? Perhaps it can work as well.

DFDS. · Post by **DFDS.** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:09 pm

Obie wrote:Why was the appeal refused the first time round? And have you addressed those issues.
The caselaws have advance significantly in ways that is not reflected in UKBA guidance or decisions. There has also been a reference to the European court of justice. Therefore either your appeal will be allowed if you can submit the documents they alledge you hadn't , or a decision will be stayed, pending the reply to the preliminary reference

Under the casework's guidance, there is a siginificant change when it comes to OFMs. They have outlined four major stages that case works have to consider before issuing a rc to the OFM. The case work can stop the processing of the application at any of the stages, if the applicant fails to qualify at aparticular stage. I thinks its important that whoever intends to apply under Ofms, they have to first go through the caseworker,s guidance.

Morpheo · Post by **Morpheo** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:45 pm

Hi DFDS,

I have applied for my sister with a massive amount of documents, she has always been my dependent. I am now awaiting the outcome from HO.

Could you please indicate which stages are you talking about? I am also aware of the pending outcome of the European court of justice to respond/answer the questions outlined in "MR and ors (EEA extended family members) Bangladesh [2010] UKUT 449 (IAC)" http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... adesh.html

I believe the casework's guidance have not been updated to reflect the latest decision by the court of appeal. It is no longer needed to prove dependency and membership of country of origin household, one of them should suffice. However, what happens if the OFM has been dependent on her EU family member once in the UK for a long period of time? should this also suffice?

Thanks

M

DFDS. · Post by **DFDS.** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:07 pm

Morpheo wrote:Hi DFDS,

I have applied for my sister with a massive amount of documents, she has always been my dependent. I am now awaiting the outcome from HO.

Could you please indicate which stages are you talking about? I am also aware of the pending outcome of the European court of justice to respond/answer the questions outlined in "MR and ors (EEA extended family members) Bangladesh [2010] UKUT 449 (IAC)" http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... adesh.html

I believe the casework's guidance have not been updated to reflect the latest decision by the court of appeal. It is no longer needed to prove dependency and membership of country of origin household, one of them should suffice. However, what happens if the OFM has been dependent on her EU family member once in the UK for a long period of time? should this also suffice?

Thanks

Hi Morpheo, you not alone, there are lots in your catergory, however as we all know, HO has no formular. They handle each case on its own merit. I believe that currently we shouldn't wait for the court of appeal's dicission on OFMs, as the applications are already underprocess. Besides, HO did not not regard all questions sent to the EU court of appeal about OFMs, as relevant. However What am talking about is just a few seconds away from you. Just click on the UKBA website, go to CASEWORKER'S guidance. Under familly members you will be able to see the four major stages that UKBA is using to detamine who qualifies as an OFM.

About the later, long period of time dependancy, i've idea. All it says is that long time residency can be considered at the final stage of your application.

Thanks.

M

Morpheo · Post by **Morpheo** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:35 pm

Hi DFDS,

Thanks for the reply

I found the stages which, in my opinion, are OK except for stage number 3: Would refusing the application deter the relevant EEA national from exercising his/her free movement rights?. This is really debatable and I can only wonder how would the the casework qualify emotional link?

M

Post by **PaperPusher** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:00 pm

Having a job, ie possibly not being dependent doesn't appear good either.

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:27 pm

hi , DFD
thanks for your reply
i showed HO office , western union slips from 2002 to date , on how my brother sent cash to my me in my name and in my parents name . my parents retired letter , pictures .
i feeel am been punished by HO cos of my illegal status .
and also i will tell u another issue that i feel HO IS USEING AGANIST ME .
when we firts applied for RC, we applied ourself with out the help of lawyers .
after i got the COA , i went to APPLIED FOR NI number interview twice , THEY refused to issue me with NI number , so i decided to try 3RD TIME , WE WERE advise by friend to use a lawyer , now i went to seek a lawyer assistance , the lawyer give me a letter which stated my right as an EU family member , i took that letter to NI interview for the 3 rd time . i was then issue with NI NUB, .
then i started working .
i didnt bother to see the lawyer any more cos . i felt at that time HO WILL make their decisions when ever they are ready .
then after 1 month i got a letter from this lawyer saying that they wrote to HO concerning case , I WAS upset cos the lawyer didnt inform me that he intend to write to HO or seek my permission before writing a letter , this lawyer dont know the full details of my case . . it was then after i month that i got THE 1ST refusAL letter . i used another lawyer to prepare my appeal .it was during my appeal bundle from the HO sent to my present lawyer that i saw the previous lawyer wrote a rude , threaten letter to HO ABOUT my case , saying they will used judicial review if HO DONT make decision on my case . HO REPLIED to the 1ST lawyer that my first COA is not valid anymore that is meant for married couple not for extended family members , and this 1st lawyer NEVER INFORM ME OF this things [letters]
., i saw this letters in my appeal bundle sent to my present lawyer .
i thinks that is what am now suffering from ,
sins i didnt commit

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:37 pm

but the COA stated right to work , and i got a job with it before .

Post by **PaperPusher** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm

Ok, but if you are working, how are you dependent on your family member?

Post by **Obie** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:47 pm

PaperPusher wrote:Ok, but if you are working, how are you dependent on your family member?

You will find that this is one of the question that was sent to the CJEU for preliminary ruling.

It was the national legislation that conferred on her the right to work, albeit wrongly, in their views.

It was because of the sponsor's rights that she was able to work. if those rights are withdrawn, then she will become a dependant again, as she was before the rights were granted. It is a catch 22 situation.

The purpose of the Freemovement directive and treaty, is to help improve the standard of living of Union citizens. If the family members who are/were dependant on the Union citizens are able to work because of the Union citizens rights, i don't think that should count against the dependant, as national law was the one that conferred this right. If this rights were withdrawn, the person will get to square one again.

I don't think it is the solicitor's fault that the HO or the Courts rejected your application. HO have a habit of rejecting application from extended family members. The lawyers was only working in your interest, although he should have sort your permission. However if your case is with him/her, there is no need for permission to be sort. It is on their client care pack, that they will seek progess on your case from the HO, on a quarterly basis.

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:08 pm

thank you all for your response , please is it possible to send of the appeal myself . then later i will go to my lawyer to accampany me to court , cos i dont ve cash to pay my lawyer to send off my appeal now

Post by **Obie** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:32 am

You can send it and possibly represent yourself as your case don't seem too complex.

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:23 am

thanks you great people in this forum for your advice which is very useful to me .
obie , in the appeal form at the last page
it ask
have you appealed aganist any other immigration decision in the United Kingdom or overseas ?
should i tick yes or no?

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:24 pm

hello all to the great people in this forum
please i want to ask a quetion
please what catagory am i in this family member , am a beneficial or direct family member .? cos the EU citizen is my elder one from the same parents , there is proof of family pictures back home and here , and others . but yet UK border think am lying . am amaze .
do i have any chances of my appealed to be allowed ?

tracy56 · Post by **tracy56** » Mon May 02, 2011 1:45 pm

good afternoon . people
please i need an answer to this question, is it safe for me to go to court with my brother on my appeal? will i be detained in court ? is confusing , cos i read this word press , on free movement of eu , and i realise as a sister to eu national am classifiy as beneficiary so therefore i dont ve automatic right as direct family members .
am actually confused . can i still go to court ? WILL I be deported ? am a overstayer , my passport is retained by the HO .
PLEASE ADVICE PLEASE
THANK YOU ALL

toni34 · Post by **toni34** » Mon May 02, 2011 11:14 pm

[quote="tracy56"]good afternoon . people
please i need an answer to this question, is it safe for me to go to court with my brother on my appeal? will i be detained in court ? is confusing , cos i read this word press , on free movement of eu , and i realise as a sister to eu national am classifiy as beneficiary so therefore i dont ve automatic right as direct family members .
am actually confused . can i still go to court ? WILL I be deported ? am a overstayer , my passport is retained by the HO .
PLEASE ADVICE PLEASE you wont be arressted in court.it is only home office lawyers that come to court not the enforcement team.

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urgent advise needed pls refus EE2 extended family member

urgent advise needed pls refus EE2 extended family member