Need to extend PSW by 2 months!

[uniriri]

Hi all,

I am in a bit of a dilemma and am hoping someone here will be able to help. Apologies in advance for what will be a looong post but I am trying to be as thorough as possible

so,

I have been here since 2002 studying architecture.
2002 -2006 I studied Meng/RIBA Part 1
2006-2007 I worked as a Part 1 architecture assistant using a student visa extension that granted me able to work for a year.
2007-2009 Having gained enough work experience, I went back to study for my DipArch/RIBA Part 2
2009-present I am working on PSW visa as a Part 2 architecture assistant.

While working, I have continued with my RIBA Part 3 education which is a part time course to be taken whilst in architecture employment.

The final exam is in Nov 1, but my PSW visa expires 10 Sept

As i really want to finish the course, What could I do to extend my stay for the 2 months?

I have researched and read forums and came to these conclusions:

PSW Visa - definitely cannot be extended

Tier 2 Visa - my employer has offered to sponsor me however, as my job is not on the shortage list and my salary of 24k is barely above the minimum? what are the chances of me getting the visa? My employer has never sponsored anyone before and we are a small architecture practice.

Tier 4 Visa - it would seem as my studies are part time, I cannot apply. I am not even sure if my uni will give me a CAS number - I have emailed them but am still waiting for a reply.

What should / can i do?

I was even considering applying to the above or even tier 1 in the hope that once my application is rejected, I would be finished with my course, all the while still residing here legally. However, I dont feel comfortable with the idea of overstaying, living under constant stress and having read through some forums, UKBA can deem your application 'invalid' and therefore making me an illegal which i DO NOT want to happen.


Thanks. Any advice/suggestions/clarifications would be v.much appreciated.

[terriblescream]

Hi all,

I am in a bit of a dilemma and am hoping someone here will be able to help. Apologies in advance for what will be a looong post but I am trying to be as thorough as possible

so,

I have been here since 2002 studying architecture.
2002 -2006 I studied Meng/RIBA Part 1
2006-2007 I worked as a Part 1 architecture assistant using a student visa extension that granted me able to work for a year.
2007-2009 Having gained enough work experience, I went back to study for my DipArch/RIBA Part 2
2009-present I am working on PSW visa as a Part 2 architecture assistant.

While working, I have continued with my RIBA Part 3 education which is a part time course to be taken whilst in architecture employment.

The final exam is in Nov 1, but my PSW visa expires 10 Sept

As i really want to finish the course, What could I do to extend my stay for the 2 months?

I have researched and read forums and came to these conclusions:

PSW Visa - definitely cannot be extended

Tier 2 Visa - my employer has offered to sponsor me however, as my job is not on the shortage list and my salary of 24k is barely above the minimum? what are the chances of me getting the visa? My employer has never sponsored anyone before and we are a small architecture practice.

Tier 4 Visa - it would seem as my studies are part time, I cannot apply. I am not even sure if my uni will give me a CAS number - I have emailed them but am still waiting for a reply.

What should / can i do?

I was even considering applying to the above or even tier 1 in the hope that once my application is rejected, I would be finished with my course, all the while still residing here legally. However, I dont feel comfortable with the idea of overstaying, living under constant stress and having read through some forums, UKBA can deem your application 'invalid' and therefore making me an illegal which i DO NOT want to happen.


Thanks. Any advice/suggestions/clarifications would be v.much appreciated.

1. Tier 1 (General) is now closed
2. Tier 1(PSW) cannot be extended in any circumstances
3. Tier 4(Adult Student) cannot be applied through part-time for international students.

4. Tier 2(General), your employer can get this if they are on the register of sponsors if not they will have to apply one before they can sponsor you!. You will have to be working for them for atleast last 6months. More info for your company here
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/emplo ... gmigrants/

5. Any application for permission to stay in the UK after your leave has expired will indeed be considered as "INVALID"

[uniriri]

hi,

thanks for the clarification. I have been working in my office for a year and a month now - should have really switched before the rules changed but though I'm happy here, I was looking around for something that pays a bit more - bad timing i suppose.

anyways, my company hasn't sponsored anyone before. How long does the process take? from applying to be a sponsor, to applying for COS.

as for invalid - i thought an application is invalid if I apply after my visa expires but if I apply whilst it's still valid, whilst the decision is being made, I am still here legally. As when i was applying for my psw, they said that i can send it off a day before my visa expires. i applied a month before but that's what they said.


could i go back and apply for a student visitor visa?
what is the process for that?


thanks again

[mt_dilber]

could i go back and apply for a student visitor visa?
what is the process for that?

I agree with the member above, You should work on Tier 2.
I dont think you will get student visa being part time and even if u get study visa somehow, u will not be granted PSW again after study.Additionally, it will be highly unlikely that you will be ablt to switch student visa into any working category. PSW is a category which helps you to switch into Tier2 without a hitch.

[uniriri]

hi,

yes i will probably try for tier 2
however, as it seems like a lengthy and expensive process, i want to see if there are other easier options in terms of application process - such as the student visa - as I really do only want to finish my course. I don't really have plans to stay longer here after my course as I want to try and work elsewhere.

is there an easier option than tier 2? just for 2 months

[Aryan2013]

hi,

yes i will probably try for tier 2
however, as it seems like a lengthy and expensive process, i want to see if there are other easier options in terms of application process - such as the student visa - as I really do only want to finish my course. I don't really have plans to stay longer here after my course as I want to try and work elsewhere.

is there an easier option than tier 2? just for 2 months

I'm not sure its easy or not, but it may work. This has been advised before so I guess, it may work.

1)Get hold of CAS(I'm not sure, they can term your application "Invalid" without a valid CAS as they only process your application after bio-metrics).
2)Apply on the last day or a day before using the slowest method of payment.
3)Delay your bio-metrics as long as you can because they will only look into your application after your bio-metrics.

[uniriri]

Hi,

thanks. will probably keep that as a last minute option if tier 2 doesnt work out. a couple of questions:

1) what is the slowest method of payment? cheque?
2) how long can you delay bio-metrics? I have never had to do one
3) if i do the above, and manage to stretch it out for 2 months, when they do come to process my application and find that the course has ended, would they not then find it invalid and therefore i have been here illegally for those 2 months ?
4) would it not be better to do the application in person, before present visa ends, and therefore have a chance to state and reason my case?


thanks again

[Aryan2013]

Hi,

thanks. will probably keep that as a last minute option if tier 2 doesnt work out. a couple of questions:

1) what is the slowest method of payment? cheque?
I guess so but I'll advise you to do your own research.

2) how long can you delay bio-metrics? I have never had to do one
Everyone has to do now. You can easily delay around a month or two.

3) if i do the above, and manage to stretch it out for 2 months, when they do come to process my application and find that the course has ended, would they not then find it invalid and therefore i have been here illegally for those 2 months ?
I guess Section 3C will come into play.

4) would it not be better to do the application in person, before present visa ends, and therefore have a chance to state and reason my case?
They will follow RULES, not your reasoning.


thanks again

[uniriri]

Hi,

thanks for the help but as just found that i can't get a CAS number so,

1) will my application be invalid? rendering my stay post visa expiration date illegal? if so, this is definitely something I would not want to bet on

2) I have never really had my pasport check on exiting the country (on average 3 flights a year for the last 9 years)- so how do they know that you've been here illegally? or would this only come up when i want to enter the UK again and honestly tell them that i've overstayed. If i never want to come here again, how would anyone know?

I know i'm veering into dodgy territory here - am just asking - though the idea of overstaying for the 2 months have toyed in my mind i know that this is a dangerous path to take.

3) are there any other visa i can apply for that doesnt require official documents like CAS/COS? w the knowledge that I'll get rejected but as long as the application is not INVALID, i would have been here legally.

4) i have seen some posts here where people have applied for tier 2 w/o COS or have applied for COS the same time they've applied for the license. Can you really do this? or will application be termed invalid as well?


thanks again.

[terriblescream]

Hi,

thanks for the help but as just found that i can't get a CAS number so,

1) will my application be invalid? rendering my stay post visa expiration date illegal? if so, this is definitely something I would not want to bet on

2) I have never really had my pasport check on exiting the country (on average 3 flights a year for the last 9 years)- so how do they know that you've been here illegally? or would this only come up when i want to enter the UK again and honestly tell them that i've overstayed. If i never want to come here again, how would anyone know?

I know i'm veering into dodgy territory here - am just asking - though the idea of overstaying for the 2 months have toyed in my mind i know that this is a dangerous path to take.

3) are there any other visa i can apply for that doesnt require official documents like CAS/COS? w the knowledge that I'll get rejected but as long as the application is not INVALID, i would have been here legally.

4) i have seen some posts here where people have applied for tier 2 w/o COS or have applied for COS the same time they've applied for the license. Can you really do this? or will application be termed invalid as well?


thanks again.

1. Even if you post without CAS, you application is sent, you are legal until they return you the application form/reject your application(dont knw how long this will take). You will have 28 days to leave the UK and you wont be considered illegal or over-stayer

2. What airport are you talking about, I know Heathrow 3 didnt have passport check while you leave the UK for sometime but last 1-2years I have been travelling, they are always there now. I travel atleast 2-3times a year

If there is no passport check you will leave the UK without any trouble but if you get caught you could be banned.

3. Dont knw any other visa (myknowledge)

4. Yes I have seen people posting as applied their license/COS at same time, probably you could do this then, research more on it!

[uniriri]

Hi again,

1) so can i stay 28days after my present visa expire then? i've heard about the 28 days rule around this forum but can't find legal document regarding the matter (like section 3C), do you have a link you can forward to me?

2) well the last 2 years i've been flying via gatwick. the checkin desk checks my passport but i assume only for identity reasons and ensuring i have a visa to the country i want to travel to and NOT the UK. then before they scan your carry on, etc, they check pasport and boarding card but again, they only check the front page of your pasport from what i can tell. then i dont think there was any other checks to exit apart from when boarding

but then again, these things always happen when u least expect it


3) what about ILR? you know, it takes them a looong while to reject/process it/deem it invalid?

4) yeah will do some research as that. what about applying without COS? which process of them deeming it invalid takes longer? Tier 4 without CAS or Tier 2 without COS?


thanks again

[Aryan2013]

I think "Validity" of CAS is checked after bio-metrics, though I'll wait for case-worker/mod's to confirm this.

ILR will cost you more as compared to Tier4 application??

[uniriri]

hi,

yeah i figured ILR will cost more but i also know that their process time is longer - defo more than the 2 months i need (1 month minus the 28days grace period). havent checked this fully.

as for case-worker/mod's - can i ask them direct questions or do they trawl through all the posts and answer depending on what they think you need.

any more info regarding the 28 days grace period?



thanks aryan

[terriblescream]

At Heathrow its

1. Check-in Passport and Visa(Destination)
2. Boarding Card Scan
3. Security

now its the turning point

4. PASSPORT CHECK
Sometimes theres no-one, so you just pass through and into duty free and off to board gate.

BUT sometimes the officers are sitting there and they will check your UK VISA and see if you have over-stayed, if you have you would be in trouble believe sum notice will be issued to you prbably a ban sentence and let you leave!

[Greenie]

Hi again,

1) so can i stay 28days after my present visa expire then? i've heard about the 28 days rule around this forum but can't find legal document regarding the matter (like section 3C), do you have a link you can forward to me?

2) well the last 2 years i've been flying via gatwick. the checkin desk checks my passport but i assume only for identity reasons and ensuring i have a visa to the country i want to travel to and NOT the UK. then before they scan your carry on, etc, they check pasport and boarding card but again, they only check the front page of your pasport from what i can tell. then i dont think there was any other checks to exit apart from when boarding

but then again, these things always happen when u least expect it


3) what about ILR? you know, it takes them a looong while to reject/process it/deem it invalid?

4) yeah will do some research as that. what about applying without COS? which process of them deeming it invalid takes longer? Tier 4 without CAS or Tier 2 without COS?


thanks again

1) The 28 days rule refers to the re-entry bans under the Immigration Rules (para 320 7B) If you overstay for more than 28 days you would be banned from re-entering the UK after you leave for at least a year. Note that any stay beyond your expiry date is still considered unlawful and could still reflect badly on your immigration history in the UK, although an overstay of less than 28 days would not trigger an automatic ban

2) The UK does not operate regular exit checks but there is a risk that they may serve you with papers upon your departure if you overstay

3)/4) Let's be clear on the validity point. If you make an invalid applicaiton then it is deemed that you have not made an application at all. If an application is rejected as invalid, for example because you complete the wrong form, don't pay the correct fee or don't complete mandatory sections the application will be rejected as invalid and if it is returned to you after your visa expires you will be treated as an overstayer. Your application would not be rejected as 'invalid' because your course had finished by the time they make a decision (it would just be refused if you didn't have a CAS)

Contrary to what terrible scream has said, an application is not rejected as 'invalid' purely because you apply after your leave expires, however if you do this you will still be an overstayer whilst your application is being considered, which is clearly not what you want.

You are correct that as long as you make a valid application before your leave expires then your leave will still be considered lawful whilst your application is under consideration.


They won't reject a Tier 4 application as invalid if you apply without a CAS but there is a chance that when they do the general check on the form for validity that they would pick up on the fact you have no CAS and refuse the application under the rules at this point.

Personally I think that applying for ILR is not a good idea. It may be seen as a frivilous application as it is clear you don't qualify and are applying in order to prolong your stay in the UK. Also there is no requirement for biometrics for a SET(O) application so there is a chance they could reject it quite quickly.

I think perhaps a better option (if you can't get a CoS) is to apply for further leave outside the rules on form FLR(O) and state explicitly that you are applying in order to complete your course and intend to leave the UK after this. Although you won't be able to prolong the applicaiton by delaying your biometrics (as they are not required), the chances are it would take at least a month to be considered you should then get a right of appeal in the event of a refusal (although it will be limited), you have 10 days to appeal. If you lodge the appeal it usually takes at least a month to be listed at the tribunal and it therefore likely to bring you to November when your course finishes.

The other option is a student visit visa but you would have to leave the UK to apply for this and would not be able to work on that visa.

[uniriri]

Hi,

greenie, thank you for letting me know about FLR(O). I am not even aware that such thing existed! I will defo look into this further as my uni has told me they can't give me COS as it is a part time course and RIBA's only suggestion was to enrol on a full time Part 3 course (v.unhelpful information btw as there are NO FULL TIME course for RIBA part 3 in England useless).

Anyways, that's a different rant altogether

Questions:

1) Do you have anymore information regarding FLR (O) as most information i see about it has been for those wanting to extend their general visitor visa

2) In your experience, do you think I have a valid case? because if i do, I would like to get the stress over and done with and apply in person. Whereas if you dont think I'll get a chance, Ill apply by post.

3) If i do decide to apply, get rejected, but am close to finishing the course, would the grace 28 day period still apply to me? therefore I need not bother with the appeal.

4) regarding student visit visa, would this be difficult to get considering it's so near to when my psw expired? apply for entry in october - psw expired in 10th sept.


thanks again all. my office will be sending their sponsor application in the next week so wish us luck! x

[Greenie]

Hi,

greenie, thank you for letting me know about FLR(O). I am not even aware that such thing existed! I will defo look into this further as my uni has told me they can't give me COS as it is a part time course and RIBA's only suggestion was to enrol on a full time Part 3 course (v.unhelpful information btw as there are NO FULL TIME course for RIBA part 3 in England useless).

Anyways, that's a different rant altogether

Questions:

1) Do you have anymore information regarding FLR (O) as most information i see about it has been for those wanting to extend their general visitor visa

2) In your experience, do you think I have a valid case? because if i do, I would like to get the stress over and done with and apply in person. Whereas if you dont think I'll get a chance, Ill apply by post.

3) If i do decide to apply, get rejected, but am close to finishing the course, would the grace 28 day period still apply to me? therefore I need not bother with the appeal.

4) regarding student visit visa, would this be difficult to get considering it's so near to when my psw expired? apply for entry in october - psw expired in 10th sept.


thanks again all. my office will be sending their sponsor application in the next week so wish us luck! x

FLR O is not just a form for general visitors. It is primarily used for applications that are not covered in other application forms and applications that are outside the rules such as yours.

They can't consider complex cases or cases outside the rules at the peo. You should not apply in person.

If your application is refused you'll have 10 working days to appeal. If you choose not to appeal your stay will remain lawful during those 10 days. After the 10 days you will become an overstayer but yes the 28 day rule will still apply. I don't see any reason to not appeal though just to buy you more time and render your stay lawful.

Re student visitor don't see why they would refuse purely because you are near end of course but depending on where you apply you may face delay in decision and risk missing exams.

[Greenie]

http://apply.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/iap ... Download_1

see link to form above

[uniriri]

Hi greenie - you are indeed a guru

thanks a ton for your help regarding the FLR (O) as I was racking my brains trying to find ANY application to which I would qualify to apply under as this is all I need to stretch the stay to november.

I think without CAS number, it's a bit risky to apply for student though just to clarify, you said:

"[b]They won't reject a Tier 4 application as invalid if you apply without a CAS[/b] but there is a chance that when they do the general check on the form for validity that they would pick up on the fact you have no CAS and refuse the application under the rules at this point. "

are you sure? because I thought it would be returned as invalid without CAS - much like a tier 2 application would be returned invalid without COS

As for student visitor visa, I have heard from people and this forum that some people have found it quite quite hard to apply for a visitor visa if you have been here for a while under any other tiers as UKBA will see this as your not wanting to leave when your visa runs out and having stronger ties to UK than to home country. And the ones that do get the visa, often risk being turned back at airport immigration

I think you are right though, It is best to stay and apply for a visa here because once I leave, there is no guarantee I will be given re-entry and all the hard work at uni would go to waste.

anyways, if i do apply, get rejected, appeal, get rejected and then leave as I've finished the course, what happens at the airport immigration check? obviously i've overstayed the visa on my passport - do i show them the rejection letter from UKBA? and will they be satisfied w that and not ban me/write stuff on my passport?


thanks again

good luck bananafish - please update me on your progress

[Greenie]

Hi greenie - you are indeed a guru

thanks a ton for your help regarding the FLR (O) as I was racking my brains trying to find ANY application to which I would qualify to apply under as this is all I need to stretch the stay to november.

I think without CAS number, it's a bit risky to apply for student though just to clarify, you said:

"They won't reject a Tier 4 application as invalid if you apply without a CAS but there is a chance that when they do the general check on the form for validity that they would pick up on the fact you have no CAS and refuse the application under the rules at this point. "

are you sure? because I thought it would be returned as invalid without CAS - much like a tier 2 application would be returned invalid without COS

As for student visitor visa, I have heard from people and this forum that some people have found it quite quite hard to apply for a visitor visa if you have been here for a while under any other tiers as UKBA will see this as your not wanting to leave when your visa runs out and having stronger ties to UK than to home country. And the ones that do get the visa, often risk being turned back at airport immigration

I think you are right though, It is best to stay and apply for a visa here because once I leave, there is no guarantee I will be given re-entry and all the hard work at uni would go to waste.

anyways, if i do apply, get rejected, appeal, get rejected and then leave as I've finished the course, what happens at the airport immigration check? obviously i've overstayed the visa on my passport - do i show them the rejection letter from UKBA? and will they be satisfied w that and not ban me/write stuff on my passport?

A valid application just means that the correct form has been completed, it is signed, the fee is paid, mandatory sections are completed, the form is current, the photos meet the guidance etc. It isn't about whether you meet the rules. If you make an invalid application it is treated as if you have not made an application at all. If you apply without a CAS you haven't made an invalid application, but you have made an application that will be refused.

However as already advised they could potentially pick up on the fact that you dont have a CAS when they are checking to make sure the application is valid and could therefore reject it at an early stage. Since it is clear you dont have the points for a tier 4 visa because you dont have a CAS I think you are better off applying on FLR(O).

Re the student visitor visa - the fact that you have left the UK in order to apply for the visit visa I think goes to show that you do intend on leaving the UK at the end of your studies, you are not applying for a tourist visa but a student visitor visa specifically to complete your studies. However there is a risk of being refused which is why I still think FLR(O) is the best option.

WHen you leave you should take evidence that you applied for the visa and the refusal etc. the decision maker should alsomark a page in your passport to say the date of refusal which the immigration officer at the airport will see.

[uniriri]

hi again,

yup, i agree with you and will definitely use the FLR(O) route as a last minute measure depending on what happens to our tier 2 visa application.
I also agree that though leaving the country and applying for student visitor visa might be a much more legitimate way of doing things, I would be at the total mercy of UKBA and risks not finishing the course at all. As its defo much easier to leave the country than to enter it.


thank you!

[Bash-81]

Hi Mate,

This was quite easy I think although a bit expensive.
If all of the doors are colsed for you then there is an other alternate and hope.
You can apply to any other college for a full time course and then apply visa on their behalf.
in this way you will be able to complete you course and also a ten years here in UK so you will also be able to apply for residence.

Cheers,