Immigration help needed for a child in care

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:36 pm

Hi,

I'm going to keep this as short as possible, basically a family member who lives in Pakistan needs help regarding her son who is in the UK. Her son was born in Pakistan and her husband is a British national, the father has brought the child to the UK and now social services are involved because the father has alcohol misuse problems and can't look ather the child. The child is currently in care whilst the relevent local authority decides his future.

What i wanted to know is , could the Local authority send the child back to his mother even if their maybe the danger of harm for both him and his mother? (the child has a british passport) and could the mum be allowed to come to the UK to take parental responsibility for the child as the father is not fit to exercise his parental responsibility?

Thank you for your replies in advance and all help would be greatly appreciated

joh118 · Post by **joh118** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:48 pm

Mellow-Yellow wrote:Hi,

I'm going to keep this as short as possible, basically a family member who lives in Pakistan needs help regarding her son who is in the UK. Her son was born in Pakistan and her husband is a British national, the father has brought the child to the UK and now social services are involved because the father has alcohol misuse problems and can't look ather the child. The child is currently in care whilst the relevent local authority decides his future.

What i wanted to know is , could the Local authority send the child back to his mother even if their maybe the danger of harm for both him and his mother? (the child has a british passport) and could the mum be allowed to come to the UK to take parental responsibility for the child as the father is not fit to exercise his parental responsibility?

Thank you for your replies in advance and all help would be greatly appreciated

no, the child cannot be sent anywhere other than the UK as the child has the right of abode in the UK. The mother may be able to use the recent Zambrano ruling to come to the UK to look after the child.

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:52 pm

joh118 wrote:
no, the child cannot be sent anywhere other than the UK as the child has the right of abode in the UK. The mother may be able to use the recent Zambrano ruling to come to the UK to look after the child.

thanks joh

social services are saying that sending the child back is an option they are considering....would it be illegal if they did? what would we need to do to make sure they don't send him back without our or his mothers knowledge?

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:35 pm

joh118 wrote:
Mellow-Yellow wrote:Hi,

I'm going to keep this as short as possible, basically a family member who lives in Pakistan needs help regarding her son who is in the UK. Her son was born in Pakistan and her husband is a British national, the father has brought the child to the UK and now social services are involved because the father has alcohol misuse problems and can't look ather the child. The child is currently in care whilst the relevent local authority decides his future.

What i wanted to know is , could the Local authority send the child back to his mother even if their maybe the danger of harm for both him and his mother? (the child has a british passport) and could the mum be allowed to come to the UK to take parental responsibility for the child as the father is not fit to exercise his parental responsibility?

Thank you for your replies in advance and all help would be greatly appreciated
no, the child cannot be sent anywhere other than the UK as the child has the right of abode in the UK. The mother may be able to use the recent Zambrano ruling to come to the UK to look after the child.

The chidl cannot be forcibly sent to Pakistan however if the child is otherwise going to be taken into care and if the mother consents to the child being sent back to Pakistan where she can look after him then the child may well be sent back to Pakistan with the mothers consent and possibly in liason with social services in Pakistan.

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:36 pm

Mellow-Yellow wrote:Hi,

I'm going to keep this as short as possible, basically a family member who lives in Pakistan needs help regarding her son who is in the UK. Her son was born in Pakistan and her husband is a British national, the father has brought the child to the UK and now social services are involved because the father has alcohol misuse problems and can't look ather the child. The child is currently in care whilst the relevent local authority decides his future.

What i wanted to know is , could the Local authority send the child back to his mother even if their maybe the danger of harm for both him and his mother? (the child has a british passport) and could the mum be allowed to come to the UK to take parental responsibility for the child as the father is not fit to exercise his parental responsibility?

Thank you for your replies in advance and all help would be greatly appreciated

why would there be danger for the mother and child in pakistan

pennylessinindia · Post by **pennylessinindia** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:44 pm

social services would not send a child to another country without the mother's knowledge. I doubt if this would ever happen in this way. Given that they think the father is not fit at this moment to care for the child they will be looking at various options.

Was the child removed from Pakistan without the mother's consent
Has the mother applied to settle with the father and has been refused

What does the mother want to happen? Have you approached Social services to ask them to keep the mother updated

Sounds like a good family lawyer is the first thing to get in place

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:50 pm

pennylessinindia wrote:social services would not send a child to another country without the mother's knowledge. I doubt if this would ever happen in this way. Given that they think the father is not fit at this moment to care for the child they will be looking at various options.

Was the child removed from Pakistan without the mother's consent
Has the mother applied to settle with the father and has been refused

What does the mother want to happen? Have you approached Social services to ask them to keep the mother updated

Sounds like a good family lawyer is the first thing to get in place

The child was taken without the mothers consent and there is a history of domestic violence against the mother...the father has also made various threats to his family infront of social workers....the mother is adament that her child should be placed with her family who reside in the UK and that the child should not be returned but social services seem to be doing their own 'thing' without keeping the mother informed or updated as to what is happening. It looks like the case is going to court. As a family i dont thing we are eligable for legal aid but i can only imagine how expensive it would be to get a lawyer

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:55 pm

Greenie wrote:
The chidl cannot be forcibly sent to Pakistan however if the child is otherwise going to be taken into care and if the mother consents to the child being sent back to Pakistan where she can look after him then the child may well be sent back to Pakistan with the mothers consent and possibly in liason with social services in Pakistan.

Has Pakistan got social services?

tbh there is a natural bias in favour of fathers in pakistan ... unfortunately I don't think a mother would risk losing her children forever by challenging the father, especially in rural Pakistan

pennylessinindia · Post by **pennylessinindia** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:06 pm

Mellow-Yellow wrote:
pennylessinindia wrote:social services would not send a child to another country without the mother's knowledge. I doubt if this would ever happen in this way. Given that they think the father is not fit at this moment to care for the child they will be looking at various options.

Was the child removed from Pakistan without the mother's consent
Has the mother applied to settle with the father and has been refused

What does the mother want to happen? Have you approached Social services to ask them to keep the mother updated

Sounds like a good family lawyer is the first thing to get in place
The child was taken without the mothers consent and there is a history of domestic violence against the mother...the father has also made various threats to his family infront of social workers....the mother is adament that her child should be placed with her family who reside in the UK and that the child should not be returned but social services seem to be doing their own 'thing' without keeping the mother informed or updated as to what is happening. It looks like the case is going to court. As a family i dont thing we are eligable for legal aid but i can only imagine how expensive it would be to get a lawyer

With all due respect Social services are doing what they have to, protect the child, where clearly the father and other family have appeared to not done so. The child can not just be placed with other family members in the UK that easily - from the information we have the family as so far seen has not provided a great place for the child. They will take time as they will need to assess every opportunity. I expect the child will have his own representative who will be Independent from social services. If the family in the UK have an interest they will need to make this know to social services

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:25 pm

What is the mother's financial situation like? She may well qualify for legal aid. In immigration cases you do not have to be in the UK to qualify. It may well be the same for family law cases.

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:09 pm

pennylessinindia wrote:
With all due respect Social services are doing what they have to, protect the child, where clearly the father and other family have appeared to not done so. The child can not just be placed with other family members in the UK that easily - from the information we have the family as so far seen has not provided a great place for the child. They will take time as they will need to assess every opportunity. I expect the child will have his own representative who will be Independent from social services. If the family in the UK have an interest they will need to make this know to social services

Well i can tell you from personal experience that the people in social services that i have been in contact with for approx 15 months now have been as useful as a chocolate teapot .... but by no means am i making a sweeping generalisation about all social services departments up and down the country. I can also tell you that as a family we have made every effort to have the child placed with us but the 'father' (term used loosely') is agaisnt him staying with us. but all that aside i appreciate all the responses and i was worried for the mother who is at her wits end and has not as of yet been contacted by social services even after i have requested them to keep the mother updated with the events.

could the mother come to the UK and asert her right to the child and take over parental responsibility?

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:10 pm

Greenie wrote:What is the mother's financial situation like? She may well qualify for legal aid. In immigration cases you do not have to be in the UK to qualify. It may well be the same for family law cases.

The mother is a houseperson and a farmhand for her father. The majority of the financial support she gets is from her father and brother.

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:12 pm

Mellow-Yellow wrote:
pennylessinindia wrote:
With all due respect Social services are doing what they have to, protect the child, where clearly the father and other family have appeared to not done so. The child can not just be placed with other family members in the UK that easily - from the information we have the family as so far seen has not provided a great place for the child. They will take time as they will need to assess every opportunity. I expect the child will have his own representative who will be Independent from social services. If the family in the UK have an interest they will need to make this know to social services
Well i can tell you from personal experience that the people in social services that i have been in contact with for approx 15 months now have been as useful as a chocolate teapot .... but by no means am i making a sweeping generalisation about all social services departments up and down the country. I can also tell you that as a family we have made every effort to have the child placed with us but the 'father' (term used loosely') is agaisnt him staying with us. but all that aside i appreciate all the responses and i was worried for the mother who is at her wits end and has not as of yet been contacted by social services even after i have requested them to keep the mother updated with the events.

could the mother come to the UK and asert her right to the child and take over parental responsibility?

i think this case is far to complex and sensitive for advice to be given on this forum. I think you need to enquire as to whether the mother is entitled to legal aid so that she can instruct 1) an immigration solicitor to assist her with coming to the UK 2) a family solicitor so that she can be party to the care proceedings. If she can get evidence that she is a party to the care proceedings or that she needs to be int he UK to take part in them, she may be able to get a visa for this purpose, but it is by no means straightforward and she needs legal advice.

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:14 pm

Mellow-Yellow wrote:
Greenie wrote:What is the mother's financial situation like? She may well qualify for legal aid. In immigration cases you do not have to be in the UK to qualify. It may well be the same for family law cases.
The mother is a houseperson and a farmhand for her father. The majority of the financial support she gets is from her father and brother.

she will probably qualify for legal aid for immigration in that case unless she has a lot of capital. Whether she qualifies for legal aid for the family matter depends on whether the same rules apply in terms of being eligible when you are not resident in the UK.

Post by **Greenie** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:18 pm

follow these links to find out if she is eligible for legal aid and to find a legal adviser

http://legaladviserfinder.justice.gov.u ... rSearch.do

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... /DG_195314

Mellow-Yellow · Post by **Mellow-Yellow** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:20 pm

Greenie wrote:
Mellow-Yellow wrote:
pennylessinindia wrote:
With all due respect Social services are doing what they have to, protect the child, where clearly the father and other family have appeared to not done so. The child can not just be placed with other family members in the UK that easily - from the information we have the family as so far seen has not provided a great place for the child. They will take time as they will need to assess every opportunity. I expect the child will have his own representative who will be Independent from social services. If the family in the UK have an interest they will need to make this know to social services
Well i can tell you from personal experience that the people in social services that i have been in contact with for approx 15 months now have been as useful as a chocolate teapot .... but by no means am i making a sweeping generalisation about all social services departments up and down the country. I can also tell you that as a family we have made every effort to have the child placed with us but the 'father' (term used loosely') is agaisnt him staying with us. but all that aside i appreciate all the responses and i was worried for the mother who is at her wits end and has not as of yet been contacted by social services even after i have requested them to keep the mother updated with the events.

could the mother come to the UK and asert her right to the child and take over parental responsibility?
i think this case is far to complex and sensitive for advice to be given on this forum. I think you need to enquire as to whether the mother is entitled to legal aid so that she can instruct 1) an immigration solicitor to assist her with coming to the UK 2) a family solicitor so that she can be party to the care proceedings. If she can get evidence that she is a party to the care proceedings or that she needs to be int he UK to take part in them, she may be able to get a visa for this purpose, but it is by no means straightforward and she needs legal advice.

Yeah i agree i was just really worried about the child being sent back...thats why i originally posted on here. I might see if CAB can offer some help/advise

Thanks Greenie

pennylessinindia · Post by **pennylessinindia** » Sat May 21, 2011 5:29 pm

You may want to look at this information 2 very different groups but they may be able to help with general support and could then link you to good legal advisors as needed
http://www.reunite.org/
http://www.cafcass.gov.uk/default.aspx

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:38 pm

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