how to know if EEA is PR

[Punjab]

OK GUYS JUST ONE QUESTION

SO LETS SAY LIKE IN MY CASE MY WIFE CAME TO THE UK IN 2006 DEC SO SHE WILL BE HERE FOR 5 YEARS IN DEC 2011. NOW I READ THAT EEANATIONALS DON'T NEED TO APPLY FOR PR AS THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN PR IF THEY ARE LAWFULLY HERE.

NOW HOW DO WE CAN CHECK OF THEIR STATUS DO I JUST RING HO AND ASK CAN YOU TELL ME IF MY WIFE IS A PR OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE HER A ID NUMBER ETC?

I MIGHT BE SILLY BUT ITS BETTER IF I ASK THE QUESTION THAN BEING AN IGNORENT.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP

[AnthCambs]

you could check UKBA website, they pretty much explain everything on their website

Your EEA wife can apply EEA3 to certify her PR. It is not compulsory for her as she has the right to reside in the UK without such.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... /applying/

[Jambo]

DO I JUST RING HO AND ASK CAN YOU TELL ME IF MY WIFE IS A PR OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE HER A ID NUMBER ETC?

Now, how would the HO know about someone if he never contacted them before? How would they know if your wife has been working here for 5 years or just watched TV all day?
EEA nationals get PR automatically if they exercise their treaty rights for 5 years. The HO can just confirm their status assuming the EEA national provide documentation to prove it.

Capisce?

[darlene82328]

I am EEA2 as well. Your wife needs to apply EEA4 after 5 years to get the PR(
valid 10years). EEA national can apply for EEA3 to get the sticker on your passport to prove your permanent right in the uk

[Punjab]

Dear All


Many thanks for your reply

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The whole point of applying to UKBA for a PR Card is for them to look through the evidence and confirm to you, in writing, that you are a PR. That applies to both the EEA citizen and the non-EEA family member.

[nonspecifics]

According to the 2004 EU Directive and UK's 2006 Regulations. EEA nationals do acquire PR after five years of exercising Treaty Rights.

But, but don't think it's as simple as that. You also need to prove it.

From personal experience, UKBA will treat EEA3 applications with the attitude of a bad insurance company who does everything it can to avoid paying out. If they can find one excuse to refuse giving the document certifying permanent residence - then they will.

You need to prove five continous years of exercising Treaty Rights in all respects. Residence, worker; student or self-sufficient ( will need also need to provide proof of five years of comprehensive health insurance too for themselves and any family members). Miss out any any of this proof for any part of the five years and you can be certain they will refuse it. New forms came out on June 2011 and they insist applications are on the latest forms too.

[86ti]

New forms came out on June 2011 and they insist applications are on the latest forms too.

Not quite, see Chapter 5, 5.1 and Chapter 6, 6.1 of the ECIS.

[vinny]

EC Law applications

[Punjab]

ok guys thanks again for your help.. just i need a straight forward answer

so like in my case my wife didn't has work for 40-50 days in total when she came here for the first time and when we relocated to a new place so if i add all the days when she did't have the work its 40-50 days and we didnt have csi as we didnt know about it.

now she came here in dec 2005 and shall we apply for her eea3 and my eea in feb 2012 keeping in mind that appx 2 months we didnt have csi.

are you guys with me?

so insted of apply eea3 or pr in dec 2012 it's better to apply in feb2012 end

many thanks

[Jambo]

You are a bit inconsistent in the dates you provide in different posts. Dec 2005? Dec 2006? 2012? 2013?

To be eligible for PR, an EEA national needs to exercise treaty rights for 5 continuous years so in your case (and this has been answered already), as your wife started working in January 2007. You can apply in January 2012. If she had a break in exercising treaty rights in between, the clock should reset. It is not a matter of applying a bit later.
However, as advised already, a break of 40 days between works, should be fine and you would not need to provide CSI evidence as it is clear your wife was looking for work (and if you can provide evidence showing that, even better).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

as your wife started working in January 2007. You can apply in January 2012.

So the wife's clock likely started when she entered the UK, not when she started working. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... nce-begin/

[Jambo]

Agree.
Practically speaking, as there is only a month difference, would probably easier to prove using payslips from January but if she can prove residence in December 2006, then she can apply in December 2011.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Agree.
Practically speaking, as there is only a month difference, would probably easier to prove using payslips from January but if she can prove residence in December 2006, then she can apply in December 2011.

She does not need to prove residence in this period. She needs to simply state the date she entered the UK. UKBA can confirm this from their internal records of entry if they so desire.

UKBA knows that she can do anything she wants in the first 90 days.

And then, very nicely, she started working a month after she arrived.

There is no need for the EEA or non-EEA to have minute-by-minute proof of their residence (or presence) in the UK.

[PaperPusher]

Agree.
Practically speaking, as there is only a month difference, would probably easier to prove using payslips from January but if she can prove residence in December 2006, then she can apply in December 2011.

She does not need to prove residence in this period. She needs to simply state the date she entered the UK. UKBA can confirm this from their internal records of entry if they so desire.

UKBA knows that she can do anything she wants in the first 90 days.

And then, very nicely, she started working a month after she arrived.

There is no need for the EEA or non-EEA to have minute-by-minute proof of their residence (or presence) in the UK.

What internal records of entry are held on EEA nationals and their family members?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am not totally sure. They scan everyone's passport (UK, EU, others) when they enter, and I think it would be naive to assume the information is just thrown away.

[86ti]

If the non-EEA entered on an EEA FP (actually also without) the passport would be stamped and the non-EEA asked to fill a landing card. I always assumed that the landing cards would be archived, are they not?

[PaperPusher]

I am not totally sure. They scan everyone's passport (UK, EU, others) when they enter, and I think it would be naive to assume the information is just thrown away.

Do you know what the "scan" is doing? Perhaps checking the machine readable zone and opening the chip if there is one.

[nonspecifics]

86ti thanks for the correction.

Strictly, according to the 2004 Directive these forms are not compulsory (and it mentions at the start of the EEA3 form that using the form is not mandatory) in other words you are not required to use the UKBA's forms to apply.

But UKBA often don't follow the law and accidentally or deliberately ( ?) enforce stricter rules than the laws that are in the 2004 Directive, so make sure you try to close off every excuse they could give for rejecting your application. Better to get it first time than having to go to immigration tribunals.

UKBA has been told by the EU and European court of Justice that judgements must be proportional and fair and that short periods of time of reliance on the Host nation ( such as when you are not working and do not have private health insurance , so are reliant on the NHS) should not automatically mean applications are refused. But as I said, UKBA don't play fair.

If your wife is a worker and was temporarily unemployed, she was still a worker. If a person was genuinely seeking work and had a reasonable chance of employment ( usually if you find a job within 6 months) then that supports that you were a worker ( or jobseeker).

Include every payslip, letter, job application refusal letter. Anything that proves she was resident and working or seeking work for the full five years or as much as the five years as possible.

The five continuous years are not from date of entry. IT IS ANY CONTINUOUS FIVE YEAR PERIOD, so choose the dates of the five years when you have the strongest evidence of residence and exercising Treaty Rights.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am not totally sure. They scan everyone's passport (UK, EU, others) when they enter, and I think it would be naive to assume the information is just thrown away.

Do you know what the "scan" is doing? Perhaps checking the machine readable zone and opening the chip if there is one.

Definitely those checks. And I remember seeing a display at Stanstead where you could see two identical photos from the UK chip passport, so I suspect they are displaying the passports chip photo next to the passports normal photo. So if the paper photo was altered the IO could see that it was different...

The the key thing is what they do with the information after they scan it.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If the non-EEA entered on an EEA FP (actually also without) the passport would be stamped and the non-EEA asked to fill a landing card. I always assumed that the landing cards would be archived, are they not?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/UK/Bor ... ndents.pdf

4.3 Landing cards for non-EEA family members
Family members do not normally need to produce landing cards. However, this does not apply when a person‟s claim to be a family member is assessed and accepted for the first time at port and admitted on a Code 1A. This is because we do not otherwise have a record of the person.

I kind of doubt this last claim, but in any case...

[PaperPusher]

I thought we were talking about EEA nationals.

[laspo24]

Have a question to ask regarding PR for EEA national. Someone with dual citizenship (British and Irish) born in Northern Ireland, that qualified as an EEA national... will she need to apply for PR as well? and could u guys please enlighten me more about the benefit of having PR for EEA national. Does it mean she wont need to prove that she is exercising treaty right anymore?
Hope am not trying to sound stupid here. We ask question to know more better. Thanks

[nonspecifics]

From what I've read elsewhere about the McCarthy case, it seems the European Court of Justice has ruled that for the 2004 EU Directive to apply the EU national must be exercising Treaty Rights by moving from one EU nation to another to exercise Treaty Rights.

If you have Irish and British citizenship, then it seems they regard that if you are in either the UK or Irish Republic, you are in either country as a citizen of that country, so you already have permanent residence rights as you are a citizen, not a EEA/EU national who has moved to another EEA country. Thus, the EU directive does not apply.

I'm not an expert though, so I am happy to be corrected, if I am wrong.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

McCarthy is a person who has British and Irish citizenship. She has only ever lived in the England, had never earlier had an Irish passport, and was not working (and more specifically on benefits).

If you have ever lived/worked in another EU member state, and/or have actively used the "foreign" citizenship in the past, and/or are working, then it is very unclear that McCarthy is relevant.