FAQ about the Zambrano Judgment (New Info added on INIS)

[SSH]

Hi Guys,

INIS have updated the website with the zambrano case, they had previously removed the link, they have put back the information again with additional clarification and FAQ's

Below i have copy/pasted 2 of the responses from the FAQS page, It makes no sense to me, I understand the responses but can they actually do this ?

Specially the response to question 3, lets say for example, If someone left Ireland for a job oversees, he/she has lost her job now and cant find another one, which leads to financial difficulties ultimately effecting the well being of the child, if she wishes to avail the zambrano rulling, so she could come and look for a job in Ireland which may improve their circumstances and ultimately add to her's and the child's standard of living, she would not be allowed to come back OR avail of the zambrano ruling?

I don't see any fairness in this ?

how is this decision not depriving the right of an Irish born child citizen ?

Question 2
My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage. Does the Zambrano Judgment allow me a right of residence in Ireland?
Response 2
No. The Zambrano Judgment applies to an Irish born citizen child’s country of residence and nationality. If an Irish born citizen child has not been ordinarily resident in Ireland then his/her parent(s) cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis for securing a right of residence in Ireland.

Question 3
I am a non-EEA national. I lived in Ireland for some years but left some time ago to return to my country of origin. I left voluntarily and was never the subject of a Deportation Order. I am the parent of an Irish born citizen child. Can I rely on the Zambrano Judgment to allow me to reside in Ireland?
Response 3
No. The Zambrano Judgment does not apply to any person who left Ireland of their own volition. Such persons can, of course, apply for a visitor or study visa to visit Ireland but cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis to obtain a right of residence in Ireland.

[Tandor]

So in response to question three, those that followed the rules (did no avail of welfare, did not get deported etc) are discriminated against on this basis, while those who stayed here on welfare, or those that got deported, can.

Seems mule backwards to me.

[leonex4t5]

and also, my question is will a one month old irish child be an "oridinary resident" interms of zambrano?

[walrusgumble]

Hi Guys,

INIS have updated the website with the zambrano case, they had previously removed the link, they have put back the information again with additional clarification and FAQ's

Below i have copy/pasted 2 of the responses from the FAQS page, It makes no sense to me, I understand the responses but can they actually do this ?

Specially the response to question 3, lets say for example, If someone left Ireland for a job oversees, he/she has lost her job now and cant find another one, which leads to financial difficulties ultimately effecting the well being of the child, if she wishes to avail the zambrano rulling, so she could come and look for a job in Ireland which may improve their circumstances and ultimately add to her's and the child's standard of living, she would not be allowed to come back OR avail of the zambrano ruling?

I don't see any fairness in this ?

how is this decision not depriving the right of an Irish born child citizen ?

Question 2
My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage. Does the Zambrano Judgment allow me a right of residence in Ireland?
Response 2
No. The Zambrano Judgment applies to an Irish born citizen child’s country of residence and nationality. If an Irish born citizen child has not been ordinarily resident in Ireland then his/her parent(s) cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis for securing a right of residence in Ireland.

Question 3
I am a non-EEA national. I lived in Ireland for some years but left some time ago to return to my country of origin. I left voluntarily and was never the subject of a Deportation Order. I am the parent of an Irish born citizen child. Can I rely on the Zambrano Judgment to allow me to reside in Ireland?
Response 3
No. The Zambrano Judgment does not apply to any person who left Ireland of their own volition. Such persons can, of course, apply for a visitor or study visa to visit Ireland but cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis to obtain a right of residence in Ireland.

I knew this crap would happen. This is almost exactly the same as what happened in IBC 05 cases , ie requirement for continuous residence which despite the High Court Case of Bode, the Minister's decisions were upheld in the Supreme Court. (ie the administrative decisions not any Constitutional issues which were for a leave to remain application - which Dimbo considered)

Alan Shatter, word of advice, you are now in goverment. Despite a decent and genuine idea that a government should be transparent and open by making statements like he did, he should refrain from such. Why? U turns always happen. Where is your messiah now? (ie those who championed him in earlier treads) He could not even keep his mouth shut over the recent remarks of the Smithwhick Tribunal (which I agreed with him in full, but they should not have been made public, as its not appropriate. He is the Minister not the Judiciary)

I told people that Zambrano still has questions to ask. These are examples of such questions (admittengly, I only referred to the experience of IBC and based my opinion on other Valid matters (as it will turn out) He should have kept his mouth shut and let the High Court continue with those cases and even if they require opinion from ECJ, so be it (now matter how admirale his stance was, and lets put this this way, I can't blame him for it, but you shouldn't interfere with the court and it was wrong to say everything is clear cut, in the face of eu law experts and his own legal groups in those cases, who are still scrathing their heads over it)


On the face of it, the Minister's decision is very dodgy indeed.

But the facts of the case put by the poster are different to Zambrano. The former, it was their own choice to leave. In Zambrano there was a danger that the child would have no where to go. That danger has not occurred yet in your examples.


(lets call a spade a spade, some left because they knew they had no chance of getting to saty in light of domestic case law, as for non eu parents who got residence via IBC, leaving the country = breaching their conditions of residence) (Don't know where you are getting the attitude that somehow jobs will be easier to get in Ireland)

But in light of the Citizenship centraled ideas at the ECJ, I can't see the Minister getting over this, but it would be worth hearing their view.

I assume you are referring to both parents being non eu/non Irish???? Please confirm. (point: If they were Irish themselves, returning, they might invoke EU law, or if one of the parents are EU they might also be evoking EU law) Where parents legal in the other Eu country, on what basis ? I bet you the state will refer to the child having dual citizenship which they never really envoked, unlike Zambrano. (think of all the plastic paddies in America who have passports on basis of their grandparents but never set foot on Irish soil)

I will be honest, this can go anyway, and its best that ECJ consider this, because i would not trust Supreme Court (ie the correct legal decision - ECj would answer it once and for all)

[walrusgumble]

So in response to question three, those that followed the rules (did no avail of welfare, did not get deported etc) are discriminated against on this basis, while those who stayed here on welfare, or those that got deported, can.

Seems mule backwards to me.

Who do you refer to regarding welfare claimants? Illegal non nationals? Or legal non nationals. The former are not entitled to much.

THe distinction is based on the fact that (minister's opinion, not mine) the parents who intially relief on Fajujonu - Dimbo cases really wanted their child to leave in ireland, yet once they (assuming they got status) status left Ireland to go elsewhere in europe (making it a bit easier to do so, as their immigration history was not dodgy) The Minister will be very annoyed about some who claimed asylum but went home later (after getting status like this case:

http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2008/H35.html

[Monifé]

Specially the response to question 3, lets say for example, If someone left Ireland for a job oversees, he/she has lost her job now and cant find another one, which leads to financial difficulties ultimately effecting the well being of the child, if she wishes to avail the zambrano rulling, so she could come and look for a job in Ireland which may improve their circumstances and ultimately add to her's and the child's standard of living, she would not be allowed to come back OR avail of the zambrano ruling?

I don't see any fairness in this ?

The way I understand this is... The Zambrano case was 2 children who could not return to their parents home country because of violence, war and poorer quality of living. The were entitled to stay in the country where they were living all their life and continue to enjoy those rights in that country. I think it is fair for the DOJ to refuse applications where the applicant's child has never lived in Ireland or has been away from Ireland for a considerable amount of time in another country, provided it is not a third world country with a much poorer quality of life. I don't think you can rely on Zambrano just because you lost your job in another country and now want to go back to Ireland.

[walrusgumble]

Specially the response to question 3, lets say for example, If someone left Ireland for a job oversees, he/she has lost her job now and cant find another one, which leads to financial difficulties ultimately effecting the well being of the child, if she wishes to avail the zambrano rulling, so she could come and look for a job in Ireland which may improve their circumstances and ultimately add to her's and the child's standard of living, she would not be allowed to come back OR avail of the zambrano ruling?

I don't see any fairness in this ?

The way I understand this is... The Zambrano case was 2 children who could not return to their parents home country because of violence, war and poorer quality of living. The were entitled to stay in the country where they were living all their life and continue to enjoy those rights in that country. I think it is fair for the DOJ to refuse applications where the applicant's child has never lived in Ireland or has been away from Ireland for a considerable amount of time in another country, provided it is not a third world country with a much poorer quality of life. I don't think you can rely on Zambrano just because you lost your job in another country and now want to go back to Ireland.

I would agree. But I would conceed that the ECJ might not share the same view, therefore it should be left to the Courts, whether Irish or ECJ, to answer.

The supposed rationale behind Zambrano, in Monife's explanation is well put. It seems clear from McCarthy (which does not rule out a reliance on Article 20 and 21 completely) is that the court would look at , in similar vein to ECtHR, are there any other countries one could stay in.?

The thing is, I doubt the ECJ would tolerate allowing a minor child to be indirectly told to leave the union itself, in light of the explanations (ie future risks and potential risks) set out in cases like Carpenter, Eind and Metock. (McCarthy was different as there was no question of a risk of her being able to move elsewhere in the Union)

[riseen]

INIS made U turn on zambrano case, They do not want Non EEA Parents and Irish children to return, who left the country without residing in Ireland!
Why these parents left Ireland, because they don't want to break Irish law or
they don't want to live illegally Ireland, so INIS ready to give residency for people who stayed illegaly in Ireland.

[riseen]

Frequently Asked Questions about the Zambrano Judgment

Question 1
My child is an EU citizen but does not hold an Irish Passport. Does the Zambrano Judgment apply to my case?
Response 1
No. In an Irish context, the Zambrano Judgment applies to certain third country nationals but in all cases they must be the parent of an Irish born citizen child before they can seek residency in Ireland under the terms of the Zambrano Judgment.

Question 2
My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage. Does the Zambrano Judgment allow me a right of residence in Ireland?
Response 2
No. The Zambrano Judgment applies to an Irish born citizen child’s country of residence and nationality. If an Irish born citizen child has not been ordinarily resident in Ireland then his/her parent(s) cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis for securing a right of residence in Ireland.

Question 3
I am a non-EEA national. I lived in Ireland for some years but left some time ago to return to my country of origin. I left voluntarily and was never the subject of a Deportation Order. I am the parent of an Irish born citizen child. Can I rely on the Zambrano Judgment to allow me to reside in Ireland?
Response 3
No. The Zambrano Judgment does not apply to any person who left Ireland of their own volition. Such persons can, of course, apply for a visitor or study visa to visit Ireland but cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis to obtain a right of residence in Ireland.

Question 4
I am a failed asylum seeker and am the parent of an Irish born citizen child. I have applied to the Minister for Justice and Equality for Subsidiary Protection and I have also submitted representations to the Minister for consideration under Section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999 (as amended). I would wish to rely on the Zambrano Judgment to secure a right of residence in Ireland. What should I do to advance this?
Response 4
Your application for Subsidiary Protection will have to be considered first and a decision notified. If the Subsidiary Protection decision is favourable then no further consideration of your case would be required, given that the status of Subsidiary Protection carries a right of residency for a statutory, renewable, three year period.
Where, however, the Subsidiary Protection application is refused, your case must then be considered under Section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999 (as amended). At that point, given that you are the parent of an Irish born citizen child, this would be factored into the Section 3 consideration. If it appears that the Zambrano criteria are met in your case, and there are no significant issues of criminality associated with your case, you are likely to be granted permission to remain in the State for a three year period, subject to a set of stated conditions.
If you are concerned that the presence of a Subsidiary Protection application may delay the finalisation of your case, it would be open to you to withdraw that application. If you decided to pursue that option, this must be made known in writing to the Repatriation Division, Dept. of Justice and Equality, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.

Question 5
I have been told that, if granted a right of residency, I will have a Stamp 4 based permission to remain in Ireland. What does this mean?
Response 5
A Stamp 4 denotes that the holder has an immigration permission to be in the State and the right to work without the need for an Employment Permit. It does not, however, confer on the holder an entitlement to any particular public service or funding. Such matters are determined by the relevant government departments or State agencies. Once a person is granted permission to remain on Stamp 4 conditions, it is generally renewed subject to the laws of the State being observed and other conditions being complied with. Such conditions will be set out in your decision letter.

Question 6
I am the father of an Irish born citizen child but my name is not on my child’s Birth Certificate. What would I need to do to convince the Minister for Justice and Equality that I should be permitted to remain in Ireland?
Response 6
In circumstances where there is doubt as to parentage of an Irish citizen child, such as where a father’s details were not recorded on the child’s Birth Certificate when the child was being registered, the onus will be on any such person claiming parentage of an Irish citizen child to produce evidence of a biological link to that child. Verifiable DNA evidence would be required as would documentary evidence of the role that such a parent had been playing in his/her child’s life etc.

Question 7
I was granted permission to remain in the State, on Stamp 4 conditions, by the Minister for Justice and Equality last year. I have an Irish born citizen child. Does the Zambrano Judgment offer me anything extra in terms of my immigration status in the State?
Response 7
Assuming that you have ‘registered’ with the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) and, as such, hold a GNIB Card with a Stamp 4, then the Zambrano Judgment offers you nothing that you don’t already have. You already hold a right of residency which allows you to work in the State without a Work Permit or to set up in any legitimate business or profession without the permission of the Minister. You can apply for renewal of your permission to remain before your current permission to remain expires. Where it is clear that you have complied with the conditions attaching to your current permission to remain, and you have not come to the adverse attention of An Garda Siochana, or any other State service provider, your permission to remain will be renewed.

Question 8
I wish to make a case to obtain residency on the basis of the Zambrano Judgment. Will I need to make my case through a solicitor?
Response 8
No, there is no requirement that any such documentation be submitted through a solicitor. Once the required documentation is submitted, the case is considered on its merits regardless of whether it was submitted by an individual or by a solicitor acting on his/her behalf. However, where you decide to make your case through a solicitor, you will need to give your written consent to that solicitor to act on your behalf for the purposes of your dealings with the Department of Justice and Equality. Where such written consent is not included in correspondence received from a solicitor, the Department will not be in a position to respond substantively to that solicitor but will instead request the solicitor to submit evidence of their written authority to act on that applicant’s behalf. This position is well known to the membership of the legal profession.

All correspondence in relation to the Zambrano Judgment should be sent to:
Repatriation Division,
INIS,
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2[/b]

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Best to post the URL where you get things. In this case: Frequently Asked Questions about the Zambrano Judgment

[walrusgumble]

INIS made U turn on zambrano case, They do not want Non EEA Parents and Irish children to return, who left the country without residing in Ireland!
Why these parents left Ireland, because they don't want to break Irish law or
they don't want to live illegally Ireland, so INIS ready to give residency for people who stayed illegaly in Ireland.

I am sympathethic to your argument, but I am sorry, for reasons that I explained down below, it does not cut any dice whatsoever.

In the Minister's eyes, and in similar vein to Irish Domestic Law (ie Distinctions with Fajunonu 1990 and Lobe 2003) is that those in the example you gave, do not have a real link to Ireland bar just being born here and by luck, having citizenship.

Its difficult to see how one can be "deprived" of EU citizenship if in truth, they never lived in Ireland / EU for very long in the first place. Zambrano, the child was born in Belgium, lived in Belgium and never experienced any other life outside Belgium. THe Parents made a choice, even at risk of jail for being illegal, to raise the child in Belgium.



THe child also has citizenship of the parent's country too.

As a matter of fact, I am aware of one ECJ case (I can't think of the name) where an Italian / Argentine national wanted to live in France or Spain. He was born in Argentina and raised in Argentina, and spent most of his life in Argentina, yet when he tried to use his Italian citizenship he was deemed Argentinian. As you have seen in McCarthy dual citizenship may not always be recongised.

Remember, the purpose of this rule is to allow the child to reside in their country that they were born and raised in. Yes, the parent choosed to do so, but the parent also clearly and freely choose to leave the country, thus depriving the child of their right to stay. Fair point on the avoiding breaking the law. But note the following, I am speaking solely about Ireland and solely about what actually happened in Ireland

First of all, most of the Irish cases, involve only one parent, normally the father (not all, but if it was both, that makes it far worse)

It was clear that during 2005-2008, Court cases were ongoing in Ireland regarding the rights of children to stay in Ireland. (your a liar if you were not aware of them, people in the respective communities were well aware that Ireland once had automatic citizenship and thus came here)


These parents were well aware of the IBC cases in 2005, and never returned to applied. Those who stayed, normally the mother's never told the fathers to come to Ireland immediately or the father did not bother to come. (money argument won't cut any dice)

Those who did return (couples or the fathers) to Ireland, and still lost their IBC case (due to continous residence) also knew that the IBC scheme was being challenged (Bode and Dimbo) Again, some did decide to leave because they were decent people who did not want to break the law, but sure, by then, their permission to remain had already expired, so they, ironically should have stayed.

They did not bother to challenge the decisions which would at least allow their "illegal residence" to be tolerated by government while case was on going. (not as if it would cost them anything) Although the IBC challenge failed in 2007, they knew that there were others cases in Court (Dimbo). Dimbo required the Minister in 2008 to reconsider many of the leave to remain applications previously submitted. In reality, the Minister had little to argue against (ie why in the common good deportations could occur) Again, no application was made, again some did not bother coming back to Ireland. Over 17,000 got residence in Ireland in 2005. About 2,000ish got residence by Dimbo.

It begs the question, why did the parents still decide only to come to Ireland now when if they had come and stayed in 2005 made the application (where their illegality would be tolerated) they would not be in the mess that they are in now) THis is particularly the father's big problem (the main applicant's in the High Court)

Despite the warning on the IBC scheme that there was no right to family reunification, the mother did not successfully urge the father (most of the High Court cases are based on them) to come to Ireland before missing the boat (ie deadline for IBC) They instead waited around for the mother to get the status, thinking that they could simply come in then , 2-3 years later ( They are the facts of the case) It does not sound to be a very concerned parent, does it, leaving the mother and child to fend for themselves in a foreign country?

As for the money/jobs argument, that's nonsense. They wanted their bread buttered both ways. They had no qualms finding a new found interest in their families and finding money to come over once the status was achieved. THey had ample of opportunity to prevent these current events happening.

The Minister,could argue (its far fetched to be honest) that if Zambrano gave the a general right to every child who has Irish citizenship or even other countries of the EU (in their respective position) then that exposes the EU to potential heave of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of claims for residency of non eu parents who wish to reside in Europe despite the citizen child never residing in Europe.

Let me explain, Ireland for example has a huge diaspora, which many different generations of people entitled to Irish citizenship.An american child might have it via their Irish parent or grandparent. The mother might be non eu/american. They decide all of a sudden, " lets to to Ireland". (Same for the German's and French, Italians)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

As a matter of fact, I am aware of one ECJ case (I can't think of the name) where an Italian / Argentine national wanted to live in France or Spain. He was born in Argentina and raised in Argentina, and spent most of his life in Argentina, yet when he tried to use his Italian citizenship he was deemed Argentinian.

I would love to see this case! Any references?

[leonex4t5]

Its difficult to see how one can be "deprived" of EU citizenship if in truth, they never lived in Ireland / EU for very long in the first place. Zambrano, the child was born in Belgium, lived in Belgium and never experienced any other life outside Belgium

what if the irish child is just one month old? interms of of your above view... does that mean the child's parent will not be eligible for stamp4 under zambrano?

[walrusgumble]

Its difficult to see how one can be "deprived" of EU citizenship if in truth, they never lived in Ireland / EU for very long in the first place. Zambrano, the child was born in Belgium, lived in Belgium and never experienced any other life outside Belgium

what if the irish child is just one month old? interms of of your above view... does that mean the child's parent will not be eligible for stamp4 under zambrano?

I wouldn't worry about it. So long as child and parents remained in Ireland

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

walrusgumble,

I suspect what the OP is pointing out is the ridiculousness of the following:
The child is Irish born, but Ireland claims the child "has not resided there at any stage". Huh???

The child would be in Ireland for at least a few weeks, and then would leave. At that point Resident? I think yes. At that point Ordinarily Resident? I think yes - certainly not ordinarily resident anywhere else...

Question 2
My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage. Does the Zambrano Judgment allow me a right of residence in Ireland?

Response 2
No. The Zambrano Judgment applies to an Irish born citizen child’s country of residence and nationality. If an Irish born citizen child has not been ordinarily resident in Ireland then his/her parent(s) cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis for securing a right of residence in Ireland.

[walrusgumble]

walrusgumble,

I suspect what the OP is pointing out is the ridiculousness of the following:
The child is Irish born, but Ireland claims the child "has not resided there at any stage". Huh???

The child would be in Ireland for at least a few weeks, and then would leave. At that point Resident? I think yes. At that point Ordinarily Resident? I think yes - certainly not ordinarily resident anywhere else...

Question 2
My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage. Does the Zambrano Judgment allow me a right of residence in Ireland?

Response 2
No. The Zambrano Judgment applies to an Irish born citizen child’s country of residence and nationality. If an Irish born citizen child has not been ordinarily resident in Ireland then his/her parent(s) cannot rely on the Zambrano Judgment as a basis for securing a right of residence in Ireland.

What is ridiculous about the first part of your example, born in Ireland, so what? If you were born in a stable does that make you a horse? Many Irish or Oirish citizens never set foot in Ireland (ie the disapora) Residence is more important.

As for the one month old baby, they will look at what the parents did, obviously they had proper residence if the child was an Irish citizen.

[leonex4t5]

born in Ireland, so what? If you were born in a stable does that make you a horse?

born in a stable by a horse, makes you a horse even if you move to the river... born in ireland is different from irish born citizen as the above stated.
if a child is born in ireland and gained irish citizen through parent or other national laws, and then leaves ireland after a couple of months, it doesn't mean he is nomore irish or has never resided in ireland.

the only scenario that is compartible with the above is where a child is born outside ireland by an irish mom, neverr resided in ireland and then the dad once to claim zambrano... it clearly shouldn't apply.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My child is an Irish born citizen but, despite being born there, has not resided there at any stage

I am not sure what you are unclear about.

This (made up) child is born in Ireland and is a citizen. Would you consider the child to be Resident in Ireland on the day of its birth? At what point would you decide that it was not Resident in Ireland?

But the claim is that the child "has not resided [in Ireland] at any stage".

Seems a very odd statement to me. I would instead say the child "has resided in Ireland its entire life". That is a true statement on the first day, and on the second day, and on every day up until the baby leaves Ireland.

[Obie]

THe child also has citizenship of the parent's country too.

As a matter of fact, I am aware of one ECJ case (I can't think of the name) where an Italian / Argentine national wanted to live in France or Spain. He was born in Argentina and raised in Argentina, and spent most of his life in Argentina, yet when he tried to use his Italian citizenship he was deemed Argentinian. As you have seen in McCarthy dual citizenship may not always be recongised.

I will like to see a link to this case. In the absence of this, i will assume it is just a matter of fantasy in your head rather than fact.

Even a very very conservative ECJ JUDGES, will not make such judgement.

The effect of this will be the creation of first and second class citizenship, which in itself will be a breach of the treaty rules on discrimination.

Union citizen is defined as any one holding the nationality of a memberstate, and not any one holding only the nationality of a memberstate.

I think in Chen, the court recognised the right of a minor child circulation around the community, or a state of his choosing, subject to limited conditions. The court also recognised that in order for them to exercise this rights, they will need their parents or carer with them.

Just like a chen case child can reside in any memberstate, so too is a zambrano child entitle to move in or out of his/her state of nationality. In the absence of their parents or carer, it is unrealistic that those rights will be properly exercised.

For those still feeling unease about zambrano, the should remember the right is the right of the child, the parent derives ancillary rights, in order to support that of the childs.

Refusing to facilitate the entry or residence of the parents, is clearly a breach of the childs right under the ruling, no ifs or buts.

[leonex4t5]

walru...

article 7, 24(3) charter of fundermental right of the EU + Article 20 TFEU,
as obi said no ifs or buts... a refusal decision would be a clear breach...

[riseen]

I believe, Ireland should give residency for EEA citizens, not just for Irish Citizen based on Zambrano Judgement;

Please read following legal view;

“1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a member state shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship. 2. Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia: (a) the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the member state ..â€

[leonex4t5]

RISEEN
yes... ireland don't need to give residennce to eea citizens, because they can live freely in ireland, and there is a provision for their family members through the directive 2004/38 to reside with them.

For eea minor kids, as their family member(parent/carer) can not be dependant on them, the chen(self sufficient rule) was provided for the family member of an eea child to reside in a host state.

for adult EU national living thier own country of nationality, in other for them to become an eea citizen in their own country of nationality so that thier familymember can reside with them under eu law, they have to use the surinder singh route.

Before zambrano there was no provision eu children under 18/21 to become eea citizens in their country of nationality, zambrano allows parents/carer reside and work in their child's country of residence and nationality.

so therefore you see provisions have been made for all the union citizens, hence they cant be forced out of the EU.

interpretation of article 20 in zambrano, is slely for eu kids in thier country of residence and NATIONALITY.

[riseen]

The ruling Zambrano - Case C-34/09 - sets out that citizenship of the Union requires a Member State to allow third country nationals who are parents of a child who is a national of that Member State to reside and work there, where refusal to do so would deprive that child of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights attaching to the status of citizen of the Union.

[leonex4t5]

Riseen...

We are clearly aware of that since the last 3Months... You got anything New?

[riseen]

Reply from Your Europe Advice service on Residency rights of Non EEA parents of Irish chil in Ireland based on Zambrano Judgement;

It is certainly arguable that you have a right to reside in Ireland with your Irish child based on the Zambrano case. However, the matter is not entirely clear. I am not surprised that you are receiving mixed messages from other States. The Zambrano case is relatively recent and the full implications of the case have yet to be drawn.

In your case, it appears that the entire family is residing outside Ireland. If this is the case, you could rely on the fact that the refusal by Ireland to allow your child to take up residence in Ireland deprives your child of his right as an EU citizen to reside in the EU. In Zambrano, the Court of Justice established that the EU citizen concerned must face a potential deprivation of the ‘genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights’ conferred by virtue of the status of Union citizenship. The applicant’s children in Zambrano faced the threat of the most far-reaching deprivation of their rights as Union citizens, running the risk of having to leave the territory of the Union. However, the difference between your case and that of Zambrano is that in Zambrano, the family continued to reside in the EU.

If it is the case that your child is residing in Ireland but you, as his parents, are being refused residence, you could again rely on both Zambrano and on the recent Dereci C-256/11 ruling of the Court of Justice which provides that if a refusal to allow a family member to reside in the EU with an EU minor would lead to a loss of enjoyment of his rights as an EU citizen and may force him to leave the EU, the refusal would be in breach of EU law.

You should appeal the decision of the Irish authorities to refuse to grant residence to you. If the appeal is unsuccessful, you may wish to consider referring the matter to the Irish Immigration Council at www.immigrantcouncil.ie which can both advise and assist citizens where alleged breaches of EU rights of free movement have occurred.

I trust that this information is of assistance to you.
Yours sincerely,
Your Europe Advice

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Yours sincerely,

Your Europe Advice