Family permit application doubt

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:53 am

Hello

I would like some advice from you if you can of course.

What happens it is that my EEA partner and me non EEA person entered into a legal registered relationship(not marriage) in the state of NSW in Australia which is a new act 2010, but we have asked the British consulate if that could be recognised as civil partnership there but they dont give us answer, we are afraid that the family permit to enter UK will be refused, could you please tell us what could we do? show more evidence? as we dont have yet the 2 years rule( we have 1 year and 10 months) that is the only legal document we can have from here to go to the UK, We are both on student visas in Australia and the visa is expire very soon , we already bought the tickets, could I enter UK to register the relationship if they dont recognize the one from Australia?, but how to have the family permit if they refuse for that reason?what could I do? I dont want to go without the family permit.

Thank you in advance

Regards

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:33 pm

Because the partnership is done in Australia, I do not think you will qualify for http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ly-member/ On the other hand, I do not know specifically that the UK only recognizes EU settled partnerships.

How long have you been together? Have you been living together the whole time, and how much proof of that do you have?

What are you planning to do in the UK? Or more specifically, what is the UK citizen planning to do?

And finally, how many weeks until your flight?

alekos · Post by **alekos** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:40 pm

you're very close to the 2 year "rule", as I understand it's a guidance.
1. Do you get a certificate for your "legal registered relationship? If so, it could make things easier if you can prove you've lived in a relationship akin to marriage.

Apply for the family permit anyway, it doesn't cost anything. If refused you can take it from there as then you'll be able to know why it was refused.

I see at least one interested Guru willing to help, so cheer up!

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:48 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Because the partnership is done in Australia, I do not think you will qualify for http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ly-member/ On the other hand, I do not know specifically that the UK only recognizes EU settled partnerships.

How long have you been together? Have you been living together the whole time, and how much proof of that do you have?

What are you planning to do in the UK? Or more specifically, what is the UK citizen planning to do?

And finally, how many weeks until your flight?

1. we have 1 year and 10 months. we have lived all the time together. Although our proof started after 3 months we lived together( bills in our names, banks statements.. so the proof will be less 3 months

, meaning we have 1 year 7 months

2. going to the UK to live, work, ect... my EEA partner(Polish) is not UK citizen.
3. our fligh is in 2 months

Thanks for the reply.

alekos · Post by **alekos** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:49 pm

hi Directive, would OP at least fall under the beneficiary category?
Also, OP's partner is not British (UK citizen).

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:56 pm

alekos wrote:you're very close to the 2 year "rule", as I understand it's a guidance.
1. Do you get a certificate for your "legal registered relationship? If so, it could make things easier if you can prove you've lived in a relationship akin to marriage.

Apply for the family permit anyway, it doesn't cost anything. If refused you can take it from there as then you'll be able to know why it was refused.

I see at least one interested Guru willing to help, so cheer up!

We got the certificate of relationship just 1 week ago, not sure if they recognize it

Thnaks...

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:02 pm

The unmarried partner category may be possible but the UKBA staff in Australia may be beany counting and say that 2 years are required. Apply as registered parnter and see what happens. The civil parntership being so new in AUS may be a problem but it is also possible that it is recognized in the UK as Australia is also Commonwealth. But that's just a guess.

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:08 pm

86ti wrote:The unmarried partner category may be possible but the UKBA staff in Australia may be beany counting and say that 2 years are required. Apply as registered parnter and see what happens. The civil parntership being so new in AUS may be a problem but it is also possible that it is recognized in the UK as Australia is also Commonwealth. But that's just a guess.

Thanks

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:15 pm

What exactly is your civil partnership called and from which state is it?

I believe, but you need to check for yourself, that you are good to go for the application. The UK's The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 says:

Civil partner has the meaning given by Schedule 1 to the Interpretation Act 1978 (c. 30) as amended by paragraph 59 of Schedule 27 to the Civil Partnership Act 2004 (c. 33).

From another thread:

Kitty wrote:ECI Chapter 5 refers to the relevant IDIs in respect of the validity of marriages/civil partnerships, and the relevant IDI is Chapter 8 Section 2 Annex H, which says:
Some people may have already formed a civil partnership or had a same gender marriage abroad. In certain cases this relationship will be recognised in the UK as a civil partnership and the partners will be treated as if they had formed the civil partnership in the UK. Schedule 20 to the Civil Partnership Act 2004 sets out a list of recognised foreign civil partnerships...

...
Australia:Tasmania "Significant relationship"

...
If an overseas relationship is not included in the list above it will still be
recognised here if it meets certain conditions. Section 214 of the Civil Partnership
Act 2004 refers. Under the law of the country where the relationship was formed
the relationship must:
(i) be exclusive in nature,
(ii) be indeterminate in duration; and
(iii) result in the parties to the relationship being regarded as a couple or
treated as married.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:45 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:[...] and from which state is it?

From the very first post:

toabetterchange wrote:[...] entered into a legal registered relationship(not marriage) in the state of NSW in Australia which is a new act 2010 [...]

which obviously means that the later part of your quoted text may take effect.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:56 pm

Danke!

So you are effectively considered married. And so the two year rule is unimportant. You may want to include a bit of long-term-relationship colour in your application, just to ensure it gets processed quickly.

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:43 pm

Hopefully it will be like that ! this documents are making me crazy !

though I asked for legal advise in the European Commission in their website, the answer in 1 week.

Thank you once again!

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:01 pm

The EU will not be able to tell you anything of substance in this case.

I would suggest you just do your application when the sun comes up tomorrow. No point in waiting. In fact, better to do it now, so that if there is a problem you can quickly reapply.

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:21 pm

I sent it today! will let you know the results! THANK YOU!

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:17 pm

toabetterchange wrote:I sent it today! will let you know the results! THANK YOU!

best wishes buddy

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:46 pm

toabetterchange wrote:I sent it today! will let you know the results! THANK YOU! :roll:

Super!

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:14 pm

Thanks everyone! haha!

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:32 am

Well Im here again with more doubts if somebody can help please

First I had a crazy day today! I have had sent the documents to the wrong place here in Canberra,Australia, they called my partner saying that they dont do the visas application there anymore!

so now waiting for our documents to send to Manila

I cannot send my documents until I get my biometrics I was told, so now that I take maybe another week to send it, I was reviewing some threads and I m just scared that they will refused my application for the following doubts.

In the pages I printed for the application before when I didnt know about the online way, in the question How long do you intend to stay in the UK I put that I havent decided but now that it must be online I dont know what to put(because you have to put the day, month and year if not you cant continue with the next questions)I know that it is better to put less than 3 months without exercising Treaty Rights, so how many days to put if we havent decided? and also if we like we would like to continue living there but we shouldnt put in the answer that we want to live permanently as my EEA partner would need to provide information about employment(qualified person), and for that it is hard to find work living outside and takes time to apply online as the flight is soon

Also another doubt is, do you intend to work in the UK? what is the best answer? yes? no? what explanation to give.

The only explanation that i can think of is , that my EEa partner understand that if we decide to live in the UK for more than 3 months, my EEA partner must be a qualified person.

I was reading....

Can my family members work in the UK?
A family member of an EEA national who intends to travel with them or join them in the UK can work without a work permit. Family members are generally not required to register under the Worker Registration Scheme or comply with the special requirements for Bulgarian and Romanian workers. The EEA national must be a 'qualified person' in the UK.

So it means my EEA partner needs to be a qualified person before I could start to work(if I find it) or I could work even in the initial right of residence for three months?

Thank you in advance....

Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:39 am

I cannot send my documents until I get my biometrics I was told,

Biometrics should not be required for EU based application. However, as I presume EEA applications are quite rare in Australia/Asia, they might not know how to deal with you / the system is not built to handle such cases so you can either argue with them and get it waived or do the biometrics.

In the pages I printed for the application before when I didnt know about the online way, in the question How long do you intend to stay in the UK I put that I havent decided but now that it must be online I dont know what to put(because you have to put the day, month and year if not you cant continue with the next questions)I know that it is better to put less than 3 months without exercising Treaty Rights, so how many days to put if we havent decided? and also we would like to continue living there but we shouldnt put in the answer that we want to live permanently as my EEA partner would need to provide information about employment, and for that it is hard to find work living outside and takes time to apply online as the flight is soon

Also another doubt is, do you intend to work in the UK? what is the best answer? yes? no? what explanation to give.

Do you think that in the letter should be mention that we intend to live for long term"exercising Treaty Rights" or just less than 3 months? if 3 months what is a good answer to give about the 3 months?

The only explanation for living permanently that i can think of is , that my EEa partner understand that if we decide to live in the UK for more than 3 months, my EEA partner must be a qualified person. Is this a good comment?

For any question you can get away by putting "N/A. Not required for applications based on EEA regulations" try to do that (questions about your financials, accommodation, plan to work). When you need to give dates, put the dates you plan to travel (obviously you won't know the exact date as you are waiting for the FP). With regards to how many days to put (less or more than the 3 months), I'm always in favour of telling the truth and explaining it in a cover letter (signed by your EEA partner). Just say that you are aware that after 3 months, your EEA partner will need to be a qualified person in order to maintain his rights. If you show them you know the law, it gives them less incentive to refuse the application....

So it means my EEA partner needs to be a qualified person before I could start to work(if I find it) or I could work even in the initial right of residence for three months?

You can work from day 1. However, after 90 days, your EEA partner will need to be a qualified person in order for you to be able to continue working.

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:55 am

Jambo wrote:
I cannot send my documents until I get my biometrics I was told,
Biometrics should not be required for EU based application. However, as I presume EEA applications are quite rare in Australia/Asia, they might not know how to deal with you / the system is not built to handle such cases so you can either argue with them and get it waived or do the biometrics.

In the pages I printed for the application before when I didnt know about the online way, in the question How long do you intend to stay in the UK I put that I havent decided but now that it must be online I dont know what to put(because you have to put the day, month and year if not you cant continue with the next questions)I know that it is better to put less than 3 months without exercising Treaty Rights, so how many days to put if we havent decided? and also we would like to continue living there but we shouldnt put in the answer that we want to live permanently as my EEA partner would need to provide information about employment, and for that it is hard to find work living outside and takes time to apply online as the flight is soon

Also another doubt is, do you intend to work in the UK? what is the best answer? yes? no? what explanation to give.

Do you think that in the letter should be mention that we intend to live for long term"exercising Treaty Rights" or just less than 3 months? if 3 months what is a good answer to give about the 3 months?

The only explanation for living permanently that i can think of is , that my EEa partner understand that if we decide to live in the UK for more than 3 months, my EEA partner must be a qualified person. Is this a good comment?

For any question you can get away by putting "N/A. Not required for applications based on EEA regulations" try to do that (questions about your financials, accommodation, plan to work). When you need to give dates, put the dates you plan to travel (obviously you won't know the exact date as you are waiting for the FP). With regards to how many days to put (less or more than the 3 months), I'm always in favour of telling the truth and explaining it in a cover letter (signed by your EEA partner). Just say that you are aware that after 3 months, your EEA partner will need to be a qualified person in order to maintain his rights. If you show them you know the law, it gives them less incentive to refuse the application....

Thank you.So are you saying that I dont have to answer questions about finances, accomodation, work, studies here in Australia? I was checking the supporting documents and theY ask for many things like letter of supporting for the person who will rent us a place, evidence of my work here, evidence of my finances, etc

should I send this??

Do you have any link/website which says biometrics for family members of EEA based applications shouldnt be required?

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:59 am

toabetterchange wrote:So are you saying that I dont have to answer questions about finances, accomodation, work, studies here in Australia?

Yes.

Would you please stay in this thread with your questions and stop posting all over the place?

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:05 pm

86ti wrote:
toabetterchange wrote:So are you saying that I dont have to answer questions about finances, accomodation, work, studies here in Australia?
Yes.

Would you please stay in this thread with your questions and stop posting all over the place?

Sorry

Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:53 pm

Thank you.So are you saying that I dont have to answer questions about finances, accomodation, work, studies here in Australia? I was checking the supporting documents and theY ask for many things like letter of supporting for the person who will rent us a place, evidence of my work here, evidence of my finances, etc should I send this??

No need to answer. This form is a one-fit-all application form that is mostly aimed at applications under the UK immigrations laws. The requirements for EEA regulations based applications are much much simpler. The only purpose of filling in the form is to be able to send it off to get an appointment. You don't need to worry about not answering all the questions. A decision according to EEA regulations should be made regardless of what you answered.

Do you have any link/website which says biometrics for family members of EEA based applications shouldnt be required?

No. But I don't have a link that shows it SHOULD be required. As a matter of fact, you can show up at the UK border without a visa with your partner and a marriage certificate and they will still let you in. They don't take any biometrics at the border....

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:53 pm

Jambo wrote:A decision according to EEA regulations should be made regardless of what you answered.

You will be refused if you lie on the form.

Also, if you want to fight the biometric fingerprints, you may be able to do it. But be warned that it will take you a long time, I would guess 6-12 months. And I am not sure you would win. The British require Biometrics from all applicants world wide.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:00 pm

As the family member of a non-UK Eu citizen moving to the UK, you do not need to answer:
questions about your or your partners present work
questions about your or your partners future work
questions about your or your partners financial resources

None of those questions are relevant for you entering the UK if you do it with your partner.

You do have to answer questions about your criminal record and the questions about whether you are a bad person.

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Family permit application doubt

Family permit application doubt