Conviction and BC

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:52 am

Hi, I am about to apply for naturalisation. I read a lot of posts here. It's really helpful. My situation is I was stopped by police for using mobile phone whilst driving, but somehow the police couldn't find my insurance details in his system. Instead of issuing me a fpn for using mobile phone. He took my car and told me to wait for a summon. I went to the court and proved that my car was insured and police dropped that charge. I plead guilty for using mobile phone so I got fine and 3 points endorsed on my license. This is now a conviction, but it could be a fpn if police found my insurance detail, in that case he didn't need to send me to court. The conviction is not spent yet. If I make the application and explain it such as above. Are there any chances to get approved. Or it would be a certainly NO to my application. I've only got this problem in my application. Everything else is ok. Any one can share previous experiences, no matter succeed or fail, would be appreciated.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:58 am

I've got my ilr last October. I am thinking I declare the conviction on the application for ilr. Since I got ilr without any problem, does it mean it should be ok for my naturalisation application provided I will definitely declare the conviction. Do ILR and Naturalisation assess applicants in the same criteria?

Nazia88 · Post by **Nazia88** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Kevinr wrote:I've got my ilr last October. I am thinking I declare the conviction on the application for ilr. Since I got ilr without any problem, does it mean it should be ok for my naturalisation application provided I will definitely declare the conviction. Do ILR and Naturalisation assess applicants in the same criteria?

i suggest you to declare it on AN form and also send them a cover letter explaining everything with good detail and i hope you will be fine. goodluck.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:38 pm

I would declare it, actually I've declared it on every application form eversince. I am very worried about this because it is clearly mentioned in AN_guide. However, I think I've got a special circumstance in the case. It could be a fixed penalty, but because police didn't found insurance record, he sent me straight to court with two charges. I did have insurance and that charge was dropped then. I didn't have any intention to challenge that fact I used phone whilst driving so I plead guilty straight away. That's how I got this conviction. What I am trying to say is that I deserved for a fixed penalty for my traffic offence, not a conviction. People get this kind of conviction either by ignoring to make a payment on time or trying to challenge it on court. I didn't do any of those. I brought to court because police messed it up. If I explain this to HO, do you think it would be disregarded or HO will not bother and just refuse my application?

Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:43 pm

Have you checked if you have an unpsent conviction on record? Or are you just assuming so because a "court imposed a fine and penalty"?

As for previous applications, criminality threshold wasn't a requirement and become a requirement for settlement only in 2011. So, there is no reason for UKBA to have refused your application(s) on that basis before this requirement came into effect.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:07 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Have you checked if you have an unpsent conviction on record? Or are you just assuming so because a "court imposed a fine and penalty"?

As for previous applications, criminality threshold wasn't a requirement and become a requirement for settlement only in 2011. So, there is no reason for UKBA to have refused your application(s) on that basis before this requirement came into effect.

Hi, sushdmehta. I haven't checked it yet. I read lots of posts that says if the fine was issued in a court then it is a conviction, so I assume I've got a conviction. How can I find out if I've got a unspent conviction?

Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:09 pm

Click on the link provided in the response above.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:26 pm

I've seen a post mention about subject access from nacro and crb from disclosurescotland. Are they same or I have to check both of them to make sure if there's a conviction against me.

Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:49 pm

NACRO is a charity. If you apply through them (assuming they provide such a service), they will also use one of the listed CRB providers to arrange your record for you.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:54 pm

Thanks for the info, I will apply for one to see the outcomes. I'll update it here. Does it mean I don't even have to declare the traffice offence if the CRB check is clear.

Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:43 pm

IMHO, no harm in declaring it. If the offence is one that is outside the purview of the requirement, it will be ignored ... with no bearing on your application.

The way I view it - Better to declare it than be accused of not disclosing material facts.

mrlookforward · Post by **mrlookforward** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 am

Kevinr wrote:Hi, I am about to apply for naturalisation. I read a lot of posts here. It's really helpful. My situation is I was stopped by police for using mobile phone whilst driving, but somehow the police couldn't find my insurance details in his system. Instead of issuing me a fpn for using mobile phone. He took my car and told me to wait for a summon. I went to the court and proved that my car was insured and police dropped that charge. I plead guilty for using mobile phone so I got fine and 3 points endorsed on my license. This is now a conviction, but it could be a fpn if police found my insurance detail, in that case he didn't need to send me to court. The conviction is not spent yet. If I make the application and explain it such as above. Are there any chances to get approved. Or it would be a certainly NO to my application. I've only got this problem in my application. Everything else is ok. Any one can share previous experiences, no matter succeed or fail, would be appreciated.

I do have some knowledge about these court and police procedures. Many a times, police issues FPN's and they are not regarded as conviction and doesn't need to be disclosed at all.
If someone fails to pay the fine imposed by a FPN or to surrender their license for endorsement then they will end up getting summoned to court. If they are then convicted in court (which happens 99 percent of the time) then now this is regarded as a "conviction that must be spent under rehabilitation of offender's act 1974".
But please keep in mind, that police is not obliged to issue FPN. Depending on circumstances, they may charge someone with an offence without offering an option of FPN.

In your particular circumstances, there are two things. Driving without insurance and using mobile phone whilst driving.

You went to court (or it could be said you were summoned to court) and proved that you had insurance. This is the end of matter. You can totally forget about it. If you want to sue your insurance company for failing to put your details on Motor Insurance Database, which caused the police to impound you car, which in turn led you to incur payments to police and caused you inconvenience, then it is entirely your decision. This has nothing to do with Rehabilitation or conviction or declaring it anywhere at all ever in your lifetime.

Second issue is Using Mobile Phone Whilst Driving. You were summoned to court for these charges too, on the same day as the other offence of Driving Without Insurance. You pleaded guilty to the offence. Needless to say that court passed a guilty verdit and imposed a fine. Now this conviction must be spent under rehabilitation of offenders act and must be declared on form AN. SUSHDMEHTA is wrong and confused to suggest that you should obtain CRB check to see if the conviction appears on it. Not all convictions are recorded on CRB. Only "RECORDABLE" offences appear on CRB. The particular offence you have been convicted of will never appear on CRB database. But let me clarify something which is very important and many people do not understand this. "If a conviction doesn't appear on CRB then it doesn't mean that its a conviction that is disregarded by UKBA"
Now comes the question, when a conviction does't appear on CRB then how does UKBA know if an applicant has a convcition?
Simple, in case of a traffic offence conviction, it will be on DVLA database, which is checked by UKBA. If its a non-driving offence, then the offence will still appear on HMCS computer. So in a nutshell, if a conviction has occurred, then there is no escaping from it.

UKBA can exercise discretion in some cases where there is an unspent conviction. But as per current UKBA quidance, using a mobile phone is regarded as a serious offence and will not be disregarded. If you still want to apply for naturalisation and still ask for discretion and if the risk of loosing application application fee is not an issue for you, then its your decison to have a shot and see what happens.

Kevinr · Post by **Kevinr** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:21 pm

mrlookforward, I think you are right. The record is probably in DVLA database instead of CRB.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Conviction and BC

Conviction and BC

Re: Conviction and BC