Urgent advice on travel while MN1 under process for my son

[MN1]

Hi all,

We are settled in UK in aug'2011 and our child was born in June'2011. We applied for MN1-British registration for my child on 01/09/2011 and thought we would receive registration and passport +indian visa before we travel to India on december 5th. However, we havent received anything yet.

I was wondering if i obtain an Indian passport for my new born and travel on that as i am not expecting to receive british documents before travel dates. and if i travel obviously without visa from UK to india, would there be any problem at Indian immigration or flight transit place in EU. When i return from India to Uk, i am thinking of getting visitor visa for my son to travel. Would there be any issues at all while entering in the UK. when i return to UK, if registration documents arrived, i will obtain the british passport for my son. Could you please give me advice and information on this issues ASAP as i need to act fast now. Thank you in advance.

[Jambo]

Two problems I see with your plan:

a. Not sure the BHC in India will issue the child a visitor visa as he is not a visitor but intends to live in the UK (they might be strict on this point).
b. As part of the Indian passport application, the parents need to sign a declaration that the child has not applied for and obtained British Citizenship.

Try and call the HO tomorrow to find out the status of your son application.

[MN1]

Two problems I see with your plan:

a. Not sure the BHC in India will issue the child a visitor visa as he is not a visitor but intends to live in the UK (they might be strict on this point).
b. As part of the Indian passport application, the parents need to sign a declaration that the child has not applied for and obtained British Citizenship.

Try and call the HO tomorrow to find out the status of your son application.

Thank you in advance.
I have already rang them two days back but UKBA said that it could take between 3-6 months and refused to answer any specific. I have checked on applying for indian passport it is okay to obtain indian passport as it is not official till i receive british citizenship documents. my only concern is on what visa i would return from India to UK and i dont want to spend more than visitor visa as, soon i would be able to apply for british passport for my new born. Would we be stopped/questionned at Indian immigration or EU transit places for not having visa while travelling to India from UK. Could you please answer or suggest alternatives ASAP.

[Jambo]

Don't see a reason for the Indian authorities or someone on the way to question the visa that is required on the return journey but I am not familiar with the Indian authorities work. The airline in the UK might look for a visa (to cover themselves for the return journey) but you can always tell them you will get a visa in India.
You might get away with a visitor visa but the BHC might insist that the correct visa is applied for. You should also take into consideration that issuing a visa can take some time particular around the holidays.

Either way you will need to bet on an option and do that soon. Your call.

[geriatrix]

Exiting UK on a passport without a UK visa / resident permit will not be problem.

But the UK-born child will require leave to enter (visa) to return to UK ... in accordance with immigration rules 304-308 .. if he wishes to return to UK on an Indian passport.

[MN1]

Exiting UK on a passport without a UK visa / resident permit will not be problem.

But the UK-born child will require leave to enter (visa) to return to UK ... in accordance with immigration rules 304-308 .. if he wishes to return to UK on an Indian passport.

thanks for your advice

Could you please elaborate on exactly on return what kind of visa would be appropriate ? Would it be okay to get visitor visa from india as when we return we should surely have british registration. Plz let me know. Regards

[geriatrix]

Click on the link given in the response above.

[Jambo]

Exiting UK on a passport without a UK visa / resident permit will not be problem.

But the UK-born child will require leave to enter (visa) to return to UK ... in accordance with immigration rules 304-308 .. if he wishes to return to UK on an Indian passport.

thanks for your advice

Could you please elaborate on exactly on return what kind of visa would be appropriate ? Would it be okay to get visitor visa from india as when we return we should surely have british registration. Plz let me know. Regards

According to the rules sushdmehta pointed you to - No. If his intentions are to join you and not a short visit, you can't apply for a visitor visa just in order to save money. You need to apply for the correct visa.

[MN1]

Exiting UK on a passport without a UK visa / resident permit will not be problem.

But the UK-born child will require leave to enter (visa) to return to UK ... in accordance with immigration rules 304-308 .. if he wishes to return to UK on an Indian passport.

thanks for your advice

Could you please elaborate on exactly on return what kind of visa would be appropriate ? Would it be okay to get visitor visa from india as when we return we should surely have british registration. Plz let me know. Regards

According to the rules sushdmehta pointed you to - No. If his intentions are to join you and not a short visit, you can't apply for a visitor visa just in order to save money. You need to apply for the correct visa.

Thanks you.
so if i am on the ILR what would be the correct visa for my son when we return from india. according to my knowledge, MN1 do not care what visa you are on and when we come back we could have british passport based on british registration-mn1. whats your view on that ?

[geriatrix]

If MN1 is not issued before the child plans to return to UK then: Applying for a visa as the child of a British citizen or settled person

If MN1 is issued by the time the child plans to return to UK then: either Certificate of entitlement of right of abode (provided it can be issued on an Indian passport of an applicant who has voluntarily acquired British citizenship) or a British passport issued overseas (lead time 3-6 months).

[geriatrix]

Having read Annex H (6.3 - 6.6) and Annex D (4.3 - 4.5), AIUI, certificate of entitlement of right of abode on an Indian passport may not be a feasible option.

[Jambo]

Thanks you.
so if i am on the ILR what would be the correct visa for my son when we return from india. according to my knowledge, MN1 do not care what visa you are on and when we come back we could have british passport based on british registration-mn1. whats your view on that ?

It is true that for MN1 immigration status is not relevant. However, you are not there yet and to enter the UK you need to apply for the correct visa and not the cheap visa.

[dave_a]

However, in these circumstances does the child require a UK visa at all?

According to 306, “A child born in the United Kingdom who is not a British Citizen and who requires leave to enter or remain in the circumstances set out in paragraph 304 may be given leave to enter for the same period as his parent or parents where paragraph 305 (i)(a) applies, provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(v) is met.”

And it seems to me that all of 305 (ii)-(v) apply in this case:
“305 The requirements to be met by a child born in the United Kingdom who is not a British Citizen who seeks leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom as the child of a parent or parents given leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom are that he:
(i) (a) is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents who have, or are given, leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom; or
(b) is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents one of whom is a British Citizen or has the right of abode in the United Kingdom; or
(c) is a child in respect of whom the parental rights and duties are vested solely in a local authority; and
(ii) is under the age of 18; and
(iii) was born in the United Kingdom; and
(iv) is not leading an independent life, is unmarried and is not a civil partner, and has not formed an independent family unit; and
(v) (where an application is made for leave to enter) has not been away from the United Kingdom for more than 2 years.”

My own case was similar since although I am a British Citizen, my UK born daughter (born in 2004) did not automatically qualify as British since I wasn’t married to my partner. Immediately after her birth we went to live abroad and when we recently decided to come to the UK to settle, we only applied for a settlement visa for my partner (ILE so she would be settled as soon as she crossed the UK border) and planned to rely on my daughter’s visitor visa to gain her entry and would get her British Citizenship once we had settled in the UK.

In the event the immigration officer said he would not admit her as a visitor, but gave her three months leave to enter (presumably under 307 because my daughter failed the 305 (v) test since she had never lived in the UK).

If my interpretation of the rules is correct, the biggest problem might be getting on the plane to the UK without a visa.

[Jambo]

I think the keyword from your quote is "may be given leave to enter". I agree that it's unlikely the IO will refuse an entry to a minor travelling with his parents although they can make the experience unpleasant until a decision is made (and this is from personal experience). Also, I believe the IO will treat differently (even if the final outcome is the same) a British father with his foreign child and a non British (even with ILR) with his child.

Better to sort things in advance (leaving the boarding the aircraft issue aside).

[cial]

My wife and I were in the same position in October. We had a death in the family abroad while my daughter's MN1 application was still with the HO.

We got our ILR at the end of July. We did not include our daughter in our ILR application because she was born in the UK and her PBS Tier1 visas was valid until next year (I figured this would be void once we got ILR as she would no longer be a PBS dependent). So I had not plan to do any travel to chance it.

We however had to travel in an emergency. Leaving the Uk was not an issue.

However, it was the return journey I was most worried about as I knew my daughter's tier1 was invalid.

When I got to immigration on the way back, I gave the officer my daughter's visas first. She then asked for mine. When she noted I had ILR, she asked why it was my daughter did not have ILR as well.

Thankfully I had used the NCS service so I had all of our original documentation available. So at that point I gave the officer the receipt letter from the UKBA acknowledging my daughter's MN1 application. I then gave her my daughter's original birth certificate, and then told her that my daughter's citizen registration is currently with the UKBA and that we were unable to wait until receipt of the certificate because of the family death (I had a copy of the death certificate incase they asked). But I told her that according to section 1(3) my daughter is a citizen.

The officer did not really ask any more questions and 30 sec later stamped our passports.

The back up position for us I guess is that with our Trinidad passport, my daughter was still entitled to enter the UK for up to 6 months without a valid visa. Not sure if this counted in our favour, but thankfully they let my daughter back in the UK.

She now has her certificate, and her passport should be back this week!

[Jambo]

... But I told her that according to section 1(3) my daughter is a citizen.

Under section 1(3) she is entitled to BC but she is not a BC until this has been granted by the secretary of state following a registration application.

The back up position for us I guess is that with our Trinidad passport, my daughter was still entitled to enter the UK for up to 6 months without a valid visa. Not sure if this counted in our favour, but thankfully they let my daughter back in the UK.

This might have worked with the airline but not with IO. They are quite strict in issuing the correct leave to enter. They would not have granted her a visitor visa if she resides in the UK. Instead they would issue a Leave to Enter for several months.

[cial]

what can I say. my situation even with all your criticism worked. what's your explanation though???

... But I told her that according to section 1(3) my daughter is a citizen.

Under section 1(3) she is entitled to BC but she is not a BC until this has been granted by the secretary of state following a registration application.

The back up position for us I guess is that with our Trinidad passport, my daughter was still entitled to enter the UK for up to 6 months without a valid visa. Not sure if this counted in our favour, but thankfully they let my daughter back in the UK.

This might have worked with the airline but not with IO. They are quite strict in issuing the correct leave to enter. They would not have granted her a visitor visa if she resides in the UK. Instead they would issue a Leave to Enter for several months.

[Jambo]

No criticism at all. I was faced with a similar situation myself. At the end of the day, they will let a child into the country if travelling with his parents even without the correct visa.
As I said, they will not issue a visitor visa but instead a "Leave to Enter" stamp for several months. The outcome might look similar but it's not the same thing. I raised this point so people would be aware that arguing "so let my child enter as a visitor" will not work if she is not a visitor.

[MN1]

Many thanks to all who contributed views!

Hi, i hv inquired with HO but all saying
to get ILR on new borns passport. I hv applied to get
An indian passport as i had no choice. Processing of ILR in india takes
2 months and costs £900. I need to get back before my elder daughter's school starts after xmas. I hv also booked ticket to fly on 5th dec with indian passport. And may be his mn1 registration may come thru. Should i obtain visitor visa as i dont hv time to wait for 2 months to let ilr come thru and it costs lot of money! Plz advice! How do i put forward my point to immigration desk while i m on the airport in uk? Or any views. Wht actions could they take by seeing visitor visa on new borns?

[Jambo]

I feel we are going in circles here as you are asking the same thing as in your original post.

You have been advised what is the correct thing to do. A visitor visa might work but I suspect you might face difficulties obtaining one from BHC as the parents hold ILR and live in the UK.