ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

UK Citizen and Non-EEA Spouse

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

UK Citizen and Non-EEA Spouse

Post by AmeenNassir » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:05 pm

Hi,

I'm a British Citizen and married to a Non-EEA wife currently living outside of the EU. I plan on moving to Ireland to live and work and I've recently applied for the Join Spouse visa via the INIS website.

I've completed all of the required information on the application and attached a signed letter of application from my spouse along with our certified marriage contract (& translation), photographs and original passport.

I now have to send all of these documents to the visa office in Ireland and I am wondering how long it will take for them to make a decision. Also, what are the chances of them refusing this visa and also on what grounds would they reject it?

Much Appreciated

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:35 am

You submit the documents to your local visa office, or to Dublin?

In general the requirements of the visa are at: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/ This applies equally to visitors as to people moving to Ireland

The visa can turned down for only 4 reasons:
(1) your marriage is fraudulant
(2) you or your wife is a national security threat
(3) you or your wife is a big public policy problem (e.g. serious repeat criminals)
(4) you or your wife have highly contageous diseases

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:17 pm

hi

r u not meant meant to apply in ur wifes country of residence. I thought that was the requirements.

If you know of something different please let me know.

Thanks

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:41 pm

hey

did u manage to get ur spouses visa

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:42 am

UPDATE:

I recieved an email today from the INIS stating that my wifes visa has ben rejected on the grounds that her passport is not signed.

I dont understand this reason as all of the passports issued from her country are not signed in the same way British or EU passports are.

Now I have to appeal this decision but I feel the INIS are being very ignorant in this matter and are not practising EU Law well enough as they cannot reject her visa on this basis.

Any advice would be appreciated.

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:49 am

no way ur joking

i cant believe they did that is ridiculous when u send ur passport off to the office in islamabad they check everything n then send it off surely if it was not signed they would have said so.

where r u based right now and when did u apply

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:33 am

AmeenNassir wrote:I recieved an email today from the INIS stating that my wifes visa has ben rejected on the grounds that her passport is not signed.

I dont understand this reason as all of the passports issued from her country are not signed in the same way British or EU passports are.
What citizenship is your wife? And the passports are not signed for anyone, or just for your wife?

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 am

hey look i dont know what country ur wife is based in but if its pakistan i just spoke to my partner and he said u ened a signature on ur passport

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:52 am

No guys its not Pakistan its Yemen.

They dont issue signed passports from Yemen

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:55 am

hmm very strange why dont u take it up with the guys in that case and let them know that as this is not on its ridiculous

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:03 pm

AmeenNassir:

So what exactly did they say in refusing to issue the visa? Did they refuse in writing?
Last edited by Directive/2004/38/EC on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sierra
- thin ice -
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:30 am
Location: eu

Post by sierra » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:08 pm

its strange they should know that passports are not issued with signature from where your wife applied for visa or she. is the first one to send her passport for the visa :P
what i wanna say is they get so many passports for visas and howch they can refuse visa with such mistake that they dont have knowledge for passport issued from yemen .
and nad whats about your hubby visa any update ?

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:34 pm

no sierra nothing yet still waiting man they saying another 6-8 weeks so fingers crossed

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:28 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:AmeenNassir:

So what exactly did they say in refusing to issue the visa? Did they refuse in writing?
Thank you for your enquiry. I regret to inform you that application 8145402
was refused on 10 January 2012 for the following reasons:

ID:- Application does not meet the qualifying criteria

P:- Passport has not been signed

Details of the appeals procedure can be found at the following link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ap ... 0Procedure

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2

---

What do you make of this response?

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:42 pm

AmeenNassir wrote:
Thank you for your enquiry. I regret to inform you that application 8145402
was refused on 10 January 2012 for the following reasons:

ID:- Application does not meet the qualifying criteria

P:- Passport has not been signed

Details of the appeals procedure can be found at the following link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ap ... 0Procedure

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2
What do you make of this response?
Well, if the passport does not have a place for it to be signed, then this response is illegal.

How would you prove to me that a Yemeni passport does not need to be signed? Are there pictures of the standard data page (and the facing page) somewhere on the internet that I could see? Is there a written description from a Yemeni ministry that explains this?

How easy is it for you to just reapply? Are you in the same city as the Irish embassy?

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:12 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
AmeenNassir wrote:
Thank you for your enquiry. I regret to inform you that application 8145402
was refused on 10 January 2012 for the following reasons:

ID:- Application does not meet the qualifying criteria

P:- Passport has not been signed

Details of the appeals procedure can be found at the following link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ap ... 0Procedure

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2
What do you make of this response?
Well, if the passport does not have a place for it to be signed, then this response is illegal.

How would you prove to me that a Yemeni passport does not need to be signed? Are there pictures of the standard data page (and the facing page) somewhere on the internet that I could see? Is there a written description from a Yemeni ministry that explains this?

How easy is it for you to just reapply? Are you in the same city as the Irish embassy?
ALL Yemeni Passports are not signed by the passport holder, it isn't a requirement.

Here is an example of a date page I found just by searching Google Passport Pic

I'm in the same city as the main Immigration Office of Ireland and I will be going to them tommorow to discuss this decision with them.

If they are still adamant and don't issue the visa, then how do I get this visa because as per EU Law, my wife is entitled to join me in Ireland without any issue.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:56 pm

OK, well the Irish visa section have done a couple of things wrong.

(1) They took almost two months to handle your wife's application. Her application must be handled on a priority basis. Hard to believe that it took that long, and that the reason they then rejected the application was because of something which was obvious from the start.
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT
S.I. No. 226 of 2006
(3)(b) The Minister shall, on the basis of an accelerated process, consider an application for an
Irish visa from a qualifying family member referred to in subparagraph (a) as soon as
possible and, if the Minister decides to issue an Irish visa, the relevant Irish visa shall be
issued free of charge.
and
Directive 2004/38/EC
Article 5 -- Right of entry
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State [may sometimes be required to have a visa].
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(2) If there is no Yemeni requirement that the passport be signed, then it is valid. (Some countries specifiy that their passport is valid only when signed).

It is not up to the government of Yemen to decide when an Irish passport is valid, and similarly not up to the govt of Ireland to decide when a Yemeni passport is valid. Each can only decide whether to allow entry to the citizen of the other. But in this case the Irish govt is required to process the application on the basis of European free movement law.

Does this suggest that Ireland has never previously issued a visa to a Yemeni? Curious and I doubt it!


You have an option at this point. You could appeal, as mentioned on the rejection letter. This is likely to be a longer process. You can also just reapply. It should be an entirely free application.

In both cases you should outline the European law that needs to be applied, be very clear that if they application is not processed quickly "as required by law" and in full accordance with EU free movement law, that you will make a formal complaint to the European Commission ( http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... fectively/ ) and that you will seek compensation. You should ask that a senior member of staff with experience in European free movement applications process the application.

Note that you can get compensation. In this case they are preventing you (the EU citizen) from moving to Ireland because they have delayed and incorrectly refused to issue the visa for your wife. Keep detailed records of all your expenses and of missed opportunities in Ireland!

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:58 pm

Note also that you should keep photocopies of EVERYTHING you give them.

When do you want to travel?

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:29 pm

Thanks for your information.

Although just to state that I am already in Ireland, my wife is still in Yemen.

nad2107
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:33 pm
United Kingdom

Post by nad2107 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:45 pm

how long does the case take in the accelarated process as we applied about 6 weeks ago n got told another 6-8 weeks when we rang last week

AmeenNassir
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Post by AmeenNassir » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:51 pm

nad2107 wrote:how long does the case take in the accelarated process as we applied about 6 weeks ago n got told another 6-8 weeks when we rang last week
From my experience there is no "accelerated process" done by the guys at the INIS. They are not really taking into account EU Freedom of Movement law AT ALL.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:48 pm

AmeenNassir wrote:Although just to state that I am already in Ireland, my wife is still in Yemen.
OK. That is fine.

I suspect you will not have much luck talking with them. But it is always worth a go if you have the time.

I would suggest you contact Solvit today for their assistance: http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/fron ... dex_en.htm They are not fast but I have found them useful in dealing with the Irish.

I would also suggest you have your wife resubmit her application. Where is she now? Is it easy for her to resubmit. Remember to have her copy EVERYTHING before submitting.

You can also appeal. I would personally ALSO do that were I in the same situation.

keloid
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:22 am

Post by keloid » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:29 pm

AmeenNassir wrote:
nad2107 wrote:how long does the case take in the accelarated process as we applied about 6 weeks ago n got told another 6-8 weeks when we rang last week
From my experience there is no "accelerated process" done by the guys at the INIS. They are not really taking into account EU Freedom of Movement law AT ALL.
Ameen - in your experience, how long did the INIS take to issue your visit visa?

adlexy
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:23 am

Post by adlexy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:53 am

AmeenNassir wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:AmeenNassir:

So what exactly did they say in refusing to issue the visa? Did they refuse in writing?
Thank you for your enquiry. I regret to inform you that application 8145402
was refused on 10 January 2012 for the following reasons:

ID:- Application does not meet the qualifying criteria

P:- Passport has not been signed

Details of the appeals procedure can be found at the following link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ap ... 0Procedure

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2

---

What do you make of this response?
No surprises here, these guys can and probably will refuse your application for any reason, albeit unjustly!

I had a refusal where the letter was dated BEFORE the application was even made! In the letter, the list of reasons was endless and included requests for documents that was submitted with the application!!

In my response, I detailed their failings including the relevant Directive. Also stated in my letter that documents listed were originally submitted and also mentioned that the letter was dated before application was made! Of course, someone called to ask that the passport be returned for the issuance of visa.

In my previous life, I applied for an a working visa at the Irish embassy in London. The lady at the visa desk told me I had completed an "incorrect" form! I insisted that she show my application to her supervisor/manager who issued the visa - you can imagine if your application fall into such hand while you were not there? They probably would reply that you completed an incorrect form!

Most of these guys behave like bean counters! They should know and someone must know that the Yemeni passport do not require a signature!

Where possible, I always prefer a walk in submission of application where someone can check and confirm no issues.

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm
United Kingdom

Post by newbieholland » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:05 am

adlexy wrote: In my previous life, I applied for an a working visa at the Irish embassy in London.
Seriously? :lol:
"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining."

Locked